|
|
03-15-2010, 05:39 PM | #23 |
Private
9
Rep 74
Posts |
E46 -> E92 -> E46 -> E92 - Z4mc
Gentleman
I think you've all made very valid and honest comments. For me personally, I struggled all along with the comfort of the E92. I always missed that raw edge the E46 had. I would concede though, that the E92 is a better all round car for daily use. However, after going through the sequence of cars in the title, I think I'm happiest overall the the 4MC. Reason being, I get the rawness of the straight six, the lightness of the 4MC, plus some of the more modern additions the 4MC also has over th E46 M3. My only real criticisms of the Z are that it does try to go sideways much more readily than either M3 (not sure if its really a criticism, but it is harder to drive well than either M3 on the limit) and the bluetooth sucks. DC |
Appreciate
0
|
03-15-2010, 06:19 PM | #24 |
Major
384
Rep 1,202
Posts
Drives: 2021 M2C
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
If you can keep both cars, do it! I've had my E46 for 7 years now and when my E92 gets delivered I won't be getting rid of my E46. It's like an old g/f you want to keep on the side while in another relationship lol. I just can't part with her. The E46 will become my winter beater and I'll probably drop an AA S/C in it since it's now outta warranty and won't be my daily driver.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-15-2010, 06:53 PM | #25 |
demoted
453
Rep 1,172
Posts |
I miss the steering weight of the E46, but not the understeer. I could thrash my E46 without losing my license - and car - but then laws and enforcement have changed in the past few years. The basic problem with my E92 DCT, as with any current near-supercar, is that its dynamic capabilities are far too high to exploit on public roads. This is exacerbated in the case of the E9x by an extreme linearity which doesn't quite translate into the same fun as an E46.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-15-2010, 08:07 PM | #26 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lieutenant
26
Rep 506
Posts |
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone!
You really helped me form my decision, and have really got me thinking. As I do live in Los Angeles, and this car will in fact be my daily driver, I think I am going to go with an e90 M3 if I find the right one for the right price. You are all the best! Cheers Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Appreciate
0
|
03-15-2010, 08:27 PM | #28 |
Major
128
Rep 1,144
Posts |
Good to see I'm not crazy, I agree with most everyone posting after a year with the E90. It is superior in every measurable way, but it's lacking soul. The S54 is a special motor, chainsaw on steroids...still remember the hair on the back of my neck standing up. You can barely hear the S65, total travesty.
The E90 is better at the track than I expected, but not as fun as my old riced out E46 (nearly as fast though). |
Appreciate
0
|
03-15-2010, 09:17 PM | #29 |
Lieutenant
26
Rep 506
Posts |
I just found out how to do it the other day and have been craving to do so ever since!
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 12:19 AM | #30 | |
Private
3
Rep 54
Posts |
Quote:
A question on the engine noise... is the engine/exhaust really quieter, or is there just more sound insulation in the e9x cabins? I'm considering an Eisenmann sport exhaust to keep the car from being too "refined". Of course, having not driven one, nor hearing an Eisenmann sport, I have no idea if I'd like it, or if I'd be fine with the stock exhaust. I'll likely do some test drives over the next month or so, or maybe rent one ($$$ to rent one though, but at least I'd be able to wring it out a bit, unlike the 3 min test drives you get at the dealers). Decisions, decisions... -David |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 01:23 AM | #31 |
Lieutenant
52
Rep 574
Posts |
OK, let's talk about which has more soul, the E46 or the E92? Having owned both, it is no question the E92. Here's my humble opinion about the soul of both-
E46- IMHO, the E46 edginess is all artificial- it exists because the previous M3, the E36 (which I also owned) was deemed too 'soft' and not 'raw' enough by the critics. Next thing you know, the E46 comes out with an overly stiff suspension, exhaust 'rasp' and an SMG transmission that didn't just shift quickly, it literally speed shifts and rip bangs the entire drivetrain. Add unusual bulges (some purely cosmetic) and TADA- everyone starts making comparisons to the E30 M3 (sorry, but no). In reality, it was never meant for the track, besides brakes not up to the task, many other components needed beefing up to make it withstand the pressure of track driving- (not to mention the dreaded sub-floor failures). And finally, can we say that the rev limit was the ultimate marketing decision? (sorry, but in hindsight I think I agree with Mike Miller on this one). OK, I loved my E46 as much as my E36, the engine at redline is a great treat (and yes 8K plus is cool vs. 7900 RPM)- but, much of the edginess is not real and therefore while a 'drama queen' her soul is staring at herself in the mirror. Now, the E92 IMHO, is much more in keeping with the BMW tradition of a practical sports SEDAN, that can keep up with most anything on or off the track, but is happy to take you and Grandma to the store without wrinkling her dress. Yes, the brakes are still not up to full on track days, but I don't feel like anything is as artificial as before. I don't have an exhaust that says 'rasp' push harder, or a suspension that lets me feel every expansion joint in like a go kart. No, I drive smoothly and quietly without drama- I can hear the motor, but it's not in my face. Then when I get on it, it revs freely past 8K because this is not about marketing, this is about power, and with this V8 we (the engineers) at BMW have made the power live at peak RPM's where it just feels and sounds... soulfully awesome. And the suspension, can become tight, and tenacious without massive understeer because that is that fast way around a track and a good mountain road- liability be damned. This is the Soul of BMW past and present...
__________________
'08 E92 IB, Gone '10 GT3 now in my garage! '10 X5 3.5D '12 E91 Xi Wagon MT sports package |
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 01:42 AM | #32 |
«-·¨¯¯¨·-»
112
Rep 1,718
Posts |
lol @ multi-quote
great thread, thanks for sharing your experiences
__________________
[N51]BMW Perf. Grilles - Debadge - AA exhaust - OEM M Sport front bumper {Euro Style: Reflectors shaved off} - Medium tint - Custom Headlights - BBS LM Reps 19x8 ET32 19x10 ET30 [LCI]
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 03:55 AM | #33 | |
Track Addict
110
Rep 813
Posts
Drives: 2010 BMW M3 E92 | 2008 Z4M E86
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Orange County, California
|
Quote:
__________________
BMW ///M3 Coupe
Completed November 16, 2009 Received December 29,2009 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 04:36 AM | #34 | |
Colonel
309
Rep 2,189
Posts |
Quote:
If I could only pick one, I think I'd pick the E46. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 05:18 AM | #35 |
Banned
88
Rep 1,680
Posts |
loved my E46 before it got hit, i loved the way the whole car felt on the road and on the track. it felt like it was a go-kart. The E92 feels like a boat compared to my E46, but then my E92 is bone stock and my E46 had KWs, Brembos, Volks, semi-slicks, the works.
I do enjoy the E92 tho, Im a practical user and I enjoy the comforts and techno gadgets the E92 provide. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2010, 09:14 PM | #36 | |
Lieutenant
26
Rep 506
Posts |
Quote:
Thank you so much You really made me when I read that.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 01:08 AM | #37 |
Lieutenant
52
Rep 574
Posts |
You're welcome.
Here's the old gal:
__________________
'08 E92 IB, Gone '10 GT3 now in my garage! '10 X5 3.5D '12 E91 Xi Wagon MT sports package |
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 01:33 AM | #38 | |
Proove It!
39
Rep 618
Posts |
Quote:
I miss the tight steering gear my comp package e46 m3 had and Im still thinking of buying another one in the future.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 07:58 AM | #39 |
Enlisted Member
6
Rep 34
Posts |
bmw states the 2011 m3 with competition package is going to be the best handling car bmw has ever built period!! that should answer your question!!
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 09:07 AM | #40 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
99
Rep 1,575
Posts |
Quote:
Add 400 pounds, add more luxury options, make people get navigation so they can have M-dynamic mode, take away the spirit of the M3 (high revving I6) and give it a V8, reduce feedback from the road, cater more to the luxury market.... and you think that has MORE SOUL?!?! what are you talking about here? The E46 M3 was "artificial"?!?! Really? I'll tell you what, I'm glad you started that sentence with "In my opinion" because thats all it really is, your opinion. And its safe to say your opinion is fairly biased because of how much you value comfort. You consider "taking grandma to the store" in comfort a factor for soul? If you are talking about which car is a smoother everyday driver, thats one thing. But to say it has more soul because your granny feels comfy is... I dont even know. Jesus. This is the reason the M3 is becoming more and more of a slave to the luxury market.
__________________
Last edited by 3XTR3M3; 03-17-2010 at 09:14 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 09:17 AM | #41 |
Veni Vidi Vici
89
Rep 2,750
Posts
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00] |
Haha! Tell us what you really think.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 09:21 AM | #42 | |
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
Quote:
The base spec E92 weighs 3600 lbs, a 200 lbs increase over the E46, which was a 250lbs increase over the E36, which was a 300lbs increase over the E30. Meaning, it's the smallest gross increase of weight of any generation, and the smallest one by far if you look percentage-wise. The spirit of the original M3 - the E30 - was of an inline 4, not 6. The spirit of the US E36 M3 was of a torquey and not very high revving inline 6. Forget Navigation and M dynamic mode, that's for sissies. BMW doesn't "make" you do anything at all, it's all in your head. And every generation M3 - every single one of them - has been pretty much a 3 series loaded up to the gills with a high standard spec. Including the E30 M3 which came with leather, electric windows, AC, optional sunroof and heated seats etc. No wonder it weighed as much or more as a regular 325i, despite having a much lighter engine, panels, glass etc. I too agree with the other poster that the E46 felt a tad artificial in some of its deliveries, as if it was trying a tad too hard. No matter, it's still all in good fun. But it was not the best M3 - excelled in some areas, mediocre in others. (Yes, including the steering feel). |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 09:26 AM | #43 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
99
Rep 1,575
Posts |
Quote:
Ok, i disagree with a good amount of what you are saying but I see your point. Thats one part of my argument. Now, where does comfort come in? And again, artificial is nothing more than an opinion, adc. Not saying it was the best M3 or the best everyday car. And as far as steering goes, I had a 06 Competition. The E92 M3s steering is nowhere near as awesome as the E46 Competition. Not even close. EDIT: BTW, the average M3 on the market is 3700 pounds. With your logic of increasing weight, the next M3 should be around 4000 pounds. The M3 after that should be 4300 pounds. Sorry man, thats not a valid argument. The difference between the E30, 36, 46 and 92 should not be looked at as "hey, its the pattern". Times have changed, technology has changed. These vehicles should be going lighter, not the other way around and then using the growth between E30 and E36 to justify it. I dont know about you, I dont want to drive a 4xxx pound M3. I rather it be lighter and more agile. Not heavier with a bigger powerplant... or I would go with Benz.
__________________
Last edited by 3XTR3M3; 03-17-2010 at 09:34 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-17-2010, 09:43 AM | #44 | ||||
Major General
2750
Rep 6,759
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
If you mean suspension comfort, there is a big difference between crashy and compliant. Where the E46 crashed through small road imperfections (potholes, expansion ridges) and fidgeted on bumpy roads, the E90 is more composed and more compliant over small imperfections. That speaks of better bushing selection and much better dampers. Similar story with the E36, was a tad crashy yet at the same time rolled a little too much stock. I had a chance to drive my ex-E36 back to back with my then-current E46 ZHP (a car of similar size/weight/specs) over an unruly piece of heaved concrete highway and the ZHP was much more composed without giving away handling-wise - all down to dampers IMO. EDC is the single most valuable option for a street driven E9x, IMO. Tightens down really well when in Sport mode - there is very little slack in that mode. It offers more comfort when you want, and the car simply handles better when you're on it. Has less understeer, more adjustable on the throttle, simply incredible on high speed sweepers. I find the combination mind blowing. Quote:
Because if yo go by the numbers, the E9x is a much more capable car, on and off the track. Quote:
For example, the ZHP steering blowed the ZCP steering into the weeds. You need to try one to believe it, I thought it was better than the E36 M3. Delicate, feelsome, consistently weighed at all speeds. We'll also have to wait for the E9x ZCP if you want to compare to the E46 ZCP. |
||||
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|