Recommended Alignment Specs For Square Set Up

[Vegas_Sirk]

Hey guys .... just wondering what you would recommend for alignment specs for a full square set up (19x10 w/ 265/35/19 all around).

I might move up to 275 all around after I burn through these tires, but for now it will be the stock ZCP 265 Contis.

Also was thinking of getting a set of camber plates, but wasnt sure if I would need any rear adjustment or if OEM has enough adjustment.

[dicker]

IF you're tracking the car, you need camber plates. I'm running -3* front and -2* rear with 275's squared and the car feels great.

[sleepless]

Yes, get camber plates! There is enough camber adjustment in the rear.

I'm running a street-friendly -2.2F/-1.9R (stock suspension and 265s squared)

[llis]

Look in the stickies. "Post your alignment specs" has a lot of info in the thread.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by sleepless

Yes, get camber plates! There is enough camber adjustment in the rear.

I'm running a street-friendly -2.2F/-1.9R (stock suspension and 265s squared)

-2.2 up front is really street friendly? How many street miles do you put on the car and on what kind of roads? Seriously curious...

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by sleepless

Yes, get camber plates! There is enough camber adjustment in the rear.

I'm running a street-friendly -2.2F/-1.9R (stock suspension and 265s squared)

-2.2 up front is not considered a street friendly amount of camber. -1.5* is street friendly.

At -2.2 the tires won't last long, and daily drive ability is reduced because of the increased amount of driver input needed.

[flipm3]

Isn't tire wear more so an effect of how much toe you have?

On my E46 M3, I ran -3º up front with 0 toe, rear was about -1.8º with slight toe in, for two straight years. Tire wear was very reasonable and conservative.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by flipm3

Isn't tire wear more so an effect of how much toe you have?

On my E46 M3, I ran -3º up front with 0 toe, rear was about -1.8º with slight toe in, for two straight years. Tire wear was very reasonable and conservative.

Depends on the kind of roads you drive and how you drive them. If you drive 50 miles a day with -3 camber, you are going to see some serious wear IMHO.

[GTM_Challenge]

I ran -2.5 F -2.75 R on mine with daily, and some track use. the car needs to be -3 in front IMO. The tire wear shouldnt be bad unless you have lots of toe.

[sleepless]

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

-2.2 up front is not considered a street friendly amount of camber. -1.5* is street friendly.

At -2.2 the tires won't last long, and daily drive ability is reduced because of the increased amount of driver input needed.

Clearly I disagree! Quite a lot actually.

[arter]

There are degrees of "street friendly".

At 2.8 up front, I ate my PS2's up quite quickly on the inside ( ~ 6000 miles).

At my current 2.2 up front, not seeing much inside wear at ~ 7,000 miles (but there is inside wear occurring....)

2.2 keeps the outside wear on my track tires under control ( although 2.8 or more would be nice on the track).

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by sleepless

Clearly I disagree! Quite a lot actually.

That's fine.

At -2.2 you will get premature wear from your front tires doing normal street driving or commuting. If you are toe'd in a little bit, that will alleviate some wear, but zero toe to toe out, tires won't last nearly as long as they should. Toe out is a bad idea for a street driven car on many levels.

A client of ours killed a set of front tires at -2.2* camber with neutral toe within 10k miles doing street driving.

As someone else mentioned, toe is a major tire killer compared to camber.

[therealsullyz]

-2 or more degrees of camber up front is less than ideal for a street setup if your looking for great tire wear. However, you can get away with it to some degree if you run zero toe. Any toe in or out is going to increase the amount of wear. It's still going to wear the insides more, just not as quickly as if you have toe in OR toe out.

What I find funny is how everyone thinks -3 degrees of camber is the magic number for the track. I've found that -3 degrees is too much on my E46 when running a 275 square setup. Other things come into play here like spring rates, tire widths, etc. The best way I know to determine the right amount of camber is to test tire temps. If you're not checking tire temps you simply do not know what the magic number is for your setup and driving style.

[sleepless]

It think the term "street-friendly camber" has to be qualified by a person's goals.

I do 2 to 3 track events a month and I want to keep the car as stock as possible. So, my main goal is to strike a good balance between street and track wear and to have a neutral handling car. The square setup alone helps with both goals. However, in my experience (12 yrs), anything less than -2 up front will destroy the outsides of the fronts in one or two track events.

Even with -2.2, I don't get even wear at the track. Life of the tires will still be determined by the outside tire wear, so, inside tire wear if of not importance to me. I've got well over 7000 miles and 9 track days and the tires need to be replaced due to outside wear. I rotated the tires about every two track days (crosswise since they are asymmetrical RE11s).

I probably could go with -2.5 or more and achieve a more equal balance between inside and outside tire wear. However, I decided to switch from RE11s to AD08s since the latter is a symmetrical tread tire which allows me to swap the tires on the wheels to get even more life out of them since the insides are in great shape on the RE11s.

For someone that does not track the car very often, then, yes, less than -2 is more street friendly.

[bigjae1976]

I run the Dinan Stage II specs except for the front camber number. I think -3.0 camber up front is too much for street tires. With -3.0, I run the Dunlop Z1s at 38psi hot and the little arrows on the shoulder are untouched...not even close.

I think I'll try -2.5 for the track. Not sure what a good spec is if you run r-comps or slicks.

If you are on OEM style springs, I would wait for vorshlag to release their plates. On the E46, the camber and toe swing was perfect for going from street to track, idiot proof. The ground control has a wide range, too wide so you have to mark the plate.

[Vegas_Sirk]

Great info guys. I was thinking of running -2.2 up front with -2.0 in the rear (if possible) with 1/16th toe in in the rear. Tire sizes will be the 265/35/19 and running ZCP susp, with H&R sports and E36 bump stops. Mostly street with occasional track days.

Im not worried about inside tire wear as my old Evo I ran -3 all around and fine with how the tires wore out.

[macming]

Originally Posted by therealsullyz

-2 or more degrees of camber up front is less than ideal for a street setup if your looking for great tire wear. However, you can get away with it to some degree if you run zero toe. Any toe in or out is going to increase the amount of wear. It's still going to wear the insides more, just not as quickly as if you have toe in OR toe out.

What I find funny is how everyone thinks -3 degrees of camber is the magic number for the track. I've found that -3 degrees is too much on my E46 when running a 275 square setup. Other things come into play here like spring rates, tire widths, etc. The best way I know to determine the right amount of camber is to test tire temps. If you're not checking tire temps you simply do not know what the magic number is for your setup and driving style.

Interesting. I ran -4 degrees of camber with my E46 M3 at the last track day, and there was significant wear on the outside of the tires.

I suppose the extra camber (moved from -2 with min toe to -4 with my camber plates) resulted in a bunch more toe in. I will likely back off on my camber adjustment next time.

What type of tire temp is optimal? I suppose the tire temp on track will be different off track after a cool down lap ..etc

[carlfan]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

That's fine.

At -2.2 you will get premature wear from your front tires doing normal street driving or commuting. If you are toe'd in a little bit, that will alleviate some wear, but zero toe to toe out, tires won't last nearly as long as they should. Toe out is a bad idea for a street driven car on many levels.

A client of ours killed a set of front tires at -2.2* camber with neutral toe within 10k miles doing street driving.

As someone else mentioned, toe is a major tire killer compared to camber.

Reviving an old thread here, but I'm going through a similar decision.
I track my car once a month and drive very little street miles. I'm thinking of pulling the pins out this week to get the most negative camber up front. This will hopefully give me a little better handling and help reduce the outside tire wear. The max negative camber sounds like an easy job, however, I'm not sure about the toe setting.

Once I pull the pin and go with the max negative camber, should I adjust the toe to what it currently is now (which I'm assuming is 0 or neutral toe)?

Thanks

[1MOREMOD]

if you do more than a couple days a year street friendly doesnt matter. the wear you see at the track will outweigh the inner edge wear you get tooling around at street speeds. your tires will be worn out due to your track usage far before you get a chance to ruin them by driving on the freeway.

[StayFNCY]

i'm running -4.5 up front and -8.5 rear in the mean time. rear should soon be around -6 to fix the rear toe.otherwise all is well for my street driving. tires last about 15k miles. i'll probably track it like this in a few months after i get my stoptech's on.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by StayFNCY

i'm running -4.5 up front and -8.5 rear in the mean time. rear should soon be around -6 to fix the rear toe.otherwise all is well for my street driving. tires last about 15k miles. i'll probably track it like this in a few months after i get my stoptech's on.

Not likely

[admranger]

Interesting tidbit: One full turn of each tie rod = a total of 3/16" toe change.

You can do the maths to figure out how much you need to turn the tie rod to affect the toe change you need as you adjust camber (assuming you have a way to measure toe -- I use Longacre toe plates).

Agree with 1mormod on stayfncy's camber claims... Hey stayfncy, your camber gauge is broken. Pro tip: you don't want that much negative camber.