Why do you not track?

[I Love My Car]

Originally Posted by erhanh

That sounds real bad. Here in WA, we pay $200/day with BMWCCA or PCA. You get about 2hours of seat time (four 30min sessisons). I'm in the novice group, so I'm not as fast, but I manage to do about 90miles in a 2.25mile circuit. So 40 laps.

Oh man, in my dreams, $200.... That's how much you pay, per day after being a NJMP club member after paying 15k + 2.4k!!!! It's total rip off.

I wonder why in germany everyone can track their car in the nurburgring. You can see so many people there and it looks so easy to get in. I highly doubt all those fiats and golfs you see in youtube in that track can afford thousands of euros of membership fees.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by I Love My Car

I had to register just for this.

Why do I not track my car? Because it's fucking expensive to do so. It has nothing to do with being able to afford the car, I could afford 3 of them easily, but tracking here in tri state area costs a lot of money.

You have 2 ways of tracking the car:

a) you go for HDPEs that are hosted by BMWCCA or other clubs, which cost at a minimum $400 per day and that's just you sitting in a car with another person (unless you have done this for 5 years and you are expert), its not like you in a race track driving the shit out of your car the way you want (without dangering others obviously). At most you'll do 5-6 laps and that'll be all.

b) you join tracks as member, such as NJMP (New Jersey Motorsport Park). With the membership, you can go to the track any of the "public" days, which are very rare (30 times/year or so, so on average once twice a week). Well that sounds "alright", oh wait, you have to pay an "initiation fee" of $15,000 and a yearly "due" of $2,400! Nice ha?

Unless you shit money, I don't think anyone would pay 20k for tracking their car, so option b is gone. For option a, meh, it might be okay to "see what's out there", but absolutely its not something you can do on a continuous basis. What I want to do is to be able to track my car when I want where I want. I highly doubt these tracks have races every day. So why don't they let you pay a fee yourself, show your helmet, tech inspection, and bam track your car? I have no idea, I guess part of it has to do with this being America and the air you breathe as much as your spit costs money.

I was so disappointed to find out about this last winter, I bought my M3 with only one thing in mind, tracking. Now unless I want to spend more than I spend for the car a month (2 track days a month will run me for $1,000, my car payment is $950), there is no way for me to enjoy this car.

So, persian, I'm not sure what the heck you are talking about my friend, you are in California and you are saying $150 for an open track? I'll just "only in Hollywood movies" and leave it there.

He's not just dreaming my friend,Track days out here are anywhere from $99-$200 for a full day of driving.They usually consist of 3 run groups,beginner,intermediate and advanced.I usually end up spending around $200 for a typical track day including gas and food and usually spend 5 20min sessions through the day.

Tires and oil changes I consider as a regular maintenance on a car of this caliber,no way around that.

Sucks that you've gotta shell out upwards of a grand to attend a track day out there,but there's gotta be someone out there doing track days like we have out here in CA.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by I Love My Car

Oh man, in my dreams, $200.... That's how much you pay, per day after being a NJMP club member after paying 15k + 2.4k!!!! It's total rip off.

I wonder why in germany everyone can track their car in the nurburgring. You can see so many people there and it looks so easy to get in. I highly doubt all those fiats and golfs you see in youtube in that track can afford thousands of euros of membership fees.

I think all you do is pay 10-15euros for a lap at nurburgring. My only reference is Top Gear so I might be wrong.

[I Love My Car]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

He's not just dreaming my friend,Track days out here are anywhere from $99-$200 for a full day of driving.They usually consist of 3 run groups,beginner,intermediate and advanced.I usually end up spending around $200 for a typical track day including gas and food and usually spend 5 20min sessions through the day.

Tires and oil changes I consider as a regular maintenance on a car of this caliber,no way around that.

Sucks that you've gotta shell out upwards of a grand to attend a track day out there,but there gotta be someone out there doing track days like we have out there in CA.

Lol.... The SCCA auto cross ones cost around $100-150 here. Forget about a track. And you know how those, they convert a parking lot in a mall with cones and make you feel like you are driving your car for real.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by I Love My Car

I highly doubt these tracks have races every day. So why don't they let you pay a fee yourself, show your helmet, tech inspection, and bam track your car? I have no idea, I guess part of it has to do with this being America and the air you breathe as much as your spit costs money.

I want to be able to do this as well...

[OC3]

Originally Posted by erhanh

To each of his own, but I love people buying BBKs, coilovers etc and NOT track...

lulz, indeed. Poseurs, most of these guys who're into mod'ing.

Upon hearing about the level of details on these mods (color-matching stitches, needing affirmations from their friends, etc), my wife be going "jezuz, these guys are worse than my girlfriends."

[Crazy Bimmer]

Originally Posted by I Love My Car

Oh man, in my dreams, $200.... That's how much you pay, per day after being a NJMP club member after paying 15k + 2.4k!!!! It's total rip off.

I wonder why in germany everyone can track their car in the nurburgring. You can see so many people there and it looks so easy to get in. I highly doubt all those fiats and golfs you see in youtube in that track can afford thousands of euros of membership fees.

http://nybmwcca.org/school.php This past event was $240 per student with BMWCCA. You can find other clubs to run with that will cost way less than $400 a day. You need to search more.

Windy City BMW have track days all over. Even Autobahn events that cost about $380 but that includes two full days with an instructor.

I dont know why anyone would want to just go on a track and let loose without any experience and no instructor. That alone sounds dangerous.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by I Love My Car

So, persian, I'm not sure what the heck you are talking about my friend, you are in California and you are saying $150 for an open track? I'll just "only in Hollywood movies" and leave it there.

wow the prices you listed are crazy....
here look at this:
https://www.extremespeedtrackevents....t-registration
$150 for Button Willow, you get 5 sessions, each about 20-25 minutes long.

$100 (with free lunch too!) for Streets of Willow and you get 5 sessions, each about 20-25 minutes long.

$110 for Big Willow, also with free lunch.

http://www.speeddistrict.com/
Button Willow, only high-end cars, LOTS of track time (50 drivers, 8 hours on the track), $240 ($205 if you registered early)
It also includes professional photos, so you can say you're only paying about $150 or 180 (after discount expired).


So I don't have $20k per year, nor do I have to pay $400 for a track day with only 5-6 laps...
In July, I'll prly end up spending about $500 on track fees and another $500 on gas, brake and tire wear, and motels.
but that's 4 track days in one month... if I did just SOW, that would be about $250, track fee and gas include.
I just feel like going all out-ish in July

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by I Love My Car

Lol.... The SCCA auto cross ones cost around $100-150 here. Forget about a track. And you know how those, they convert a parking lot in a mall with cones and make you feel like you are driving your car for real.

Wow,auto crosses can be fun in a small lightweight car,but for a car like this you need an open track to really appreciate the engineering under the skin.Not sure if I would buy an M3 if I could not drive it in the environment it was designed in.I don't give s shiet about the badge or the looks.

[Richbot]

Because track days are like masturbation?

Seriously though, I used to think people who didn't do some kind of performance driving in their performance cars weren't hardcore. Then I turned 17 and I was grown up enough to realize that's a stupid way to look at the world. It's a personal choice and nobody on here is in a position to judge anybody else.

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Because track days are like masturbation?

Seriously though, I used to think people who didn't compete in their performance cars weren't hardcore. Then I turned 17.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I got my M3 2yrs ago and haven't tracked it yet. I was 21 when I got it and still baby it. It's because I can't drive my M3 to the point where I can drive my race car.

Why? It's too expensive, too heavy, too soft, there's no class for it to compete in, not enough brake or camber without mods. Oh and I have to drive it to work on Monday.

It's a hoot on the street though!

[The HACK]

You want to know why?

Long long time ago, I have a ton of friends that would go to the track on a fairly regular basis. At the time I was happy just tooling around in my car and putting tens of thousands of dollars into "modding" it for fun. I didn't care about "the track" because, why should anyone pay good money to go around and drive your car, when driving on the street is perfectly free? I didn't see what the allure is. Plus I was already god's gift to drivers, I passed my driving test with perfect scores...Why should I learn how to drive fast when I already know how to drive fast?

Then one day, the group of track buddies asked if I wanted to go to Vegas. They have the room paid for, I just have to ride up and ride back with someone, but I'd get a free weekend in Vegas, on one condition: That I'd get a ride from one of the BMW CCA instructors at the event.

Free trip to Vegas? Sign me up!

The rest was history. I got a ride from a very good instructor from the Road Runner chapter of BMW CCA and next thing I know, I just absolutely had to try my hands at this. In a way, I wish I hadn't, since this "sport" cost me more every year than a good cocaine habit would cost. And I don't even pay for track time anymore. But it is what it is. It's like trying to convince someone that's never skydived that skydiving is a thrill of a lifetime. Or trying to convince a life-long Atheist that his salvation lies in belief in someone named Jesus Christ. It's something that, unless it's experienced, and experienced in a manner where the dude or dudette showing you how to to do this are absolute PROFESSIONALS at it...You'll never get it or understand it.

And just like skydiving and Jesus Christ, some people never like it or get it. I don't. I'm still a life long Atheist despite my wife being "born again" and her numerous attempts at getting me to go to church. I've never and will never try skydiving no matter how "fun" it is. It just ain't me. And the "high performance driving" game isn't for everyone. There are people who buy high performance cars just to get from point A to point B or just to look good. In fact, those probably far out-number "us." There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a simple fact...It. Is. What. It. Is.

There's no point trying to understand it.

[Serious]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Because track days are like masturbation?

Seriously though, I used to think people who didn't do some kind of performance driving in their performance cars weren't hardcore. Then I turned 17 and I was grown up enough to realize that's a stupid way to look at the world. It's a personal choice and nobody on here is in a position to judge anybody else.

Agreed... it's almost funny to see the HPDE champions acting hard with your $60,000 street car. For the same $60k you could've bought an e46 m3 and built a spec e30/spec miata/pro3 car and gone racing for real.

I think everyone should get out there and experience track driving, but if it's not your thing so be it.

[Chuntsman949]

I dont own an M3 but I do have a fast 335i tehee, I am nervous about going to the track... I can drive well but I dont know if I can DRIVE WELL if you know what I mean. I am dying to track my car, I just dont know when the best time/event would be.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Because track days are like masturbation?

Seriously though, I used to think people who didn't do some kind of performance driving in their performance cars weren't hardcore. Then I turned 17 and I was grown up enough to realize that's a stupid way to look at the world. It's a personal choice and nobody on here is in a position to judge anybody else.

Nobody is judging,the point of this thread would be to get rid of the misconceptions that newbs have towards track days,IMO.Most are misinformed and have a negative/closed minded view on the subject.It's not about being hardcore or one upping another M3 driver,it's about shedding some light and clearing up whats involved to get out there and have some fun.

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by sl1981

i never compete at the track. i stay in hpde 1/2. on the track i can open up my car as much as i feel safe. if i try to have some fun with my car on the street i break the law.

if people have sport cars that never see the track or autocross then those people are posers. lexus is much better for wallowing around town to and from work.

I am an instructor for NASA, have won a SCCA racing championship, and set a track record in a competitive field. I've passed an M3 in a Civic Hybrid in HPDE 1/2.

I have never tracked my M3. I'm a poser?

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Chuntsman949

I dont own an M3 but I do have a fast 335i tehee, I am nervous about going to the track... I can drive well but I dont know if I can DRIVE WELL if you know what I mean. I am dying to track my car, I just dont know when the best time/event would be.

Start with car control clinic. Do couple autox. See how you like those. HPDE events are very different then CCC or autox, but at least you get some ideas, and most importantly you start to learn the limits of your car and yourself.

[Manifold]

I think a primary reason is that people are afraid of crashing at high speed. I don't think that's an unreasonable fear, since the idea behind going to the track should be to learn to approach the limits of the car.

For myself, I hit the track for the first time last week, and I'm hooked.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

I am an instructor for NASA, have won a SCCA racing championship, and set a track record in a competitive field. I've passed an M3 in a Civic Hybrid in HPDE 1/2.

I have never tracked my M3. I'm a poser?

You don't count,you have a dedicated race car

[Chuntsman949]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Start with car control clinic. Do couple autox. See how you like those. HPDE events are very different then CCC or autox, but at least you get some ideas, and most importantly you start to learn the limits of your car and yourself.

I will deff have to look into this... I have done a lot of K1speed karting and shit LOL but I know its a different animal. I might do the next big track day and pay for instruction as well. I think that would be sweeeet

[pbonsalb]

The cost of the track day may be $100 on special or $200 if you are lucky or $400 for some, but your car is not covered by your insurance on the track. You can take the risk or you can pay another $200 or more for insurance per track day. The costs do add up. I have taken my E90M3 to a high performance driving school and to the drag strip, but I am not as rich as most people here so I will probably track my E36M3 instead if I decide to do track days.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by Chuntsman949

I will deff have to look into this... I have done a lot of K1speed karting and shit LOL but I know its a different animal. I might do the next big track day and pay for instruction as well. I think that would be sweeeet

Good luck,you're in for a treat