First HPDE weekend on R-Comps...

[chili cheese]

Timely thread for me fellas, thank you. I just ordered Arc-8s and they should be arriving very soon. I am trying to decide between the RS3s and NT01s as well. This is just further confirmation that I'm not ready for the R-Comps yet, but something in between like the NT01 is the ticket for me at this time.

[von_zoom]

Sorry, but just found this. A session at VIR determining tire pressures, and what works well, and what does not work as well. Off line / on line at speed to note adhesion. I still say, on my car, the BFG R1s do very well.
vz

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Yes, I will reconsider r-comps when my lap times stop falling significantly. This month was the first time I've run the same track config in similar weather conditions. I dropped 7 seconds off my best lap on a 1.7mile course. So I'll hold off on R-Comps until I start plateauing.

My .02 is that while you don't want to move to Rcomps too quickly, I also wouldn't wait too long (assuming you are planning to move to them at some point), as driving on Rcomps will impact braking points, and possibly your driving line.Listening for tire squeal, as discussed before, is another "bad" habit to relearn. You may need to sort of relearn some things, and may not want to get too ingrained with driving on street tires.

Also, to the poster above, the NT01 is considered an Rcomp. The NT05 is the Nitto that is more in-between. One of the better ways to tell is the treadwear rating -- an Rcomp will be <= 100. The NT01 is a 100AA, the NT05 is a 200AA; the Michelin PSS is a 220AA, the Michelin PSC is a 80AA. I think tread depth is also a good indicator (not surprisingly, as it's directly related to the treadware rating) -- and Rcomp will be around 6/32 or less (some places will shave to 4/32 or less for an extra fee, if you want something closer to a slick). Now true slick, also mentioned in this thread, is quite different than an Rcomp, as the lack of any tread makes them non street legal. I don't think most HPDE drivers will notice much difference using a slick vs an Rcomp, except in cost if using used slicks.

[Bubbles]

+1 on the NT-01s. I've been using this tire for four years now after a move from street tires. IMO the best bang for your buck tire and while not as sticky as most r-comps out there, they are reliable and somewhat progressive.

At my home track, I start with 33psi all around (running a square set-up ARC-8 10s, 275/35/18s) after three laps the psi spikes to 43-44psi, I come in drop the pressure to 38 all-around. After that the psi remains relatively constant once you do a warm up lap. Anything below 35psi gets very squishy for me. I think 38 psi hot is ideal for this tire, but keep in mind you have to rotate the tires so you don't cord one. Chalk is your friend.

My home track is brutal on the front left tire, so I swap it for the rear right mid day. I mark the tires post track day and can typically get 6-8 track days (4-5 hours driving/per day) out of a set. Even more if I flip the tires on the rim.

[chili cheese]

Given that the NT01 is close to/is an R-Comp tire, will I just eat through them if I don't have my suspension adjusted properly (something more aggressive than stock)? Obviously this is dependent on a number of factors including driving style, but I'm asking this in general terms.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

I mark the tires post track day and can typically get 6-8 track days (4-5 hours driving/per day) out of a set. Even more if I flip the tires on the rim.

The Nitto NT-01 is asymmetrical, so I figured it is not really supposed to be flipped on the rim.

I tend to wear the outer edges of my tires more, so if I could flip them, I could get a few extra days out of them...

I am curious, how do they behave running inside out? Are the inner structure and thread blocks strong enough to take cornering loads when outside? ? Your input would be appreciated .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by chili cheese

Given that the NT01 is close to/is an R-Comp tire, will I just eat through them if I don't have my suspension adjusted properly (something more aggressive than stock)? Obviously this is dependent on a number of factors including driving style, but I'm asking this in general terms.

I did need to increase front camber to better balance wear on my NT01s. I installed GC camber plates on an otherwise stock suspension and run -2.3 front and -1.8 rear camber.

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The Nitto NT-01 is asymmetrical, so I figured it is not really supposed to be flipped on the rim.

I tend to wear the outer edges of my tires more, so if I could flip them, I could get a few extra days out of them...

My race shop flipped my NT-01s, at least my rears I think, so it's possible. Once they are getting worn down (i.e. closer to slicks), the assymetric pattern may not matter as much. I ran a weekend at RA after the flip, and while they seemed a little "squirrely" at first, by the end of the weekend, they felt. fine.

To your second point, if you are wearing outside edges first, I venture you aren't running enough negative camber, or maybe you are running too low of pressure. I know I always wear my insides quicker. My last set of PSCs looked like slicks on the inside when I got rid of them, and the outsides weren't worn much at all.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The Nitto NT-01 is asymmetrical, so I figured it is not really supposed to be flipped on the rim.

I tend to wear the outer edges of my tires more, so if I could flip them, I could get a few extra days out of them...

I am curious, how do they behave running inside out? Are the inner structure and thread blocks strong enough to take cornering loads when outside? ? Your input would be appreciated .

You can acutally buy the NT-01 shaved to nearly no tread brand new (check the Nitto website). I flipped the tire with no ill effects, maybe a bit slower around the track but for more track time its an easy way to add longenvity. Just keep an eye on the wear holes. Fronts take a beating, I'm running negative -1.9 and -1.8 camber with the pins pulled on stock ZCP suspension.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

My race shop flipped my NT-01s, at least my rears I think, so it's possible. Once they are getting worn down (i.e. closer to slicks), the assymetric pattern may not matter as much. I ran a weekend at RA after the flip, and while they seemed a little "squirrely" at first, by the end of the weekend, they felt. fine.

To your second point, if you are wearing outside edges first, I venture you aren't running enough negative camber, or maybe you are running too low of pressure. I know I always wear my insides quicker. My last set of PSCs looked like slicks on the inside when I got rid of them, and the outsides weren't worn much at all.

Thanks for sharing , good to know.

Agreed on the camber. I installed the GC camber plates mid-season. I already had about 6 track days on the tires before I increased camber, so they still corded on the outter edges with plenty of meat left.

The temperatures were nice and even across the tire with the increased camber, so I am looking forward to a nice and even wear on my new tires this season.

I am surpised with you wearing the inside edges of the tires, have not seen this often . How much camber are you using? Either you are not pushing hard enough or drifting like hell ...

[llis]

I too was a bit timid on the grandam conti/Hoosiers at first, felt frustrated and a bit nervous. But by the end of the second day I was starting to love them.

I don't know what they'd be like without camber. With camber and square 275s, it took me a bit to get comfortable with the oversteer, which will throw you if you're used to the OEM staggered understeer.

I had to squeeze the tires to the limit slip-wise to get a feel for how they break loose. Once I got attuned to it, much more subtle than what street tires give you, I loved it!

Pressure wise, I aimed for 34-36 hot, on the low side of that in the back. That was July-August though, which meant I had to start at 26-26 cold, and that makes for a squishy warmup lap!

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am surpised with you wearing the inside edges of the tires, have not seen this often . How much camber are you using? Either you are not pushing hard enough or drifting like hell ...

I probably could have been more specific. This was for the front wheels of an AWD VW R32, not an M3. It is AWD, so maybe I am doing a little drifting. But yes, I wear the inside edges off, running a -1.7/-1.4 in the front.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

I probably could have been more specific. This was for the front wheels of an AWD VW R32, not an M3. It is AWD, so maybe I am doing a little drifting. But yes, I wear the inside edges off, running a -1.7/-1.4 in the front.

Love the screen name!

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Love the screen name!

Who are the Swartzentruber Amish?
amishamerica.com/who-are-the-swartzentruber-amish/
Swartzentruber Amish do not permit automobile travel except in emergencies. ... When traveling to visit other communities, this means they would travel by train ...

Clearly, then, his M3 is for emergency purposes only...

[bigjae1976]

I will revisit this thread...learned a couple of things. I've since been on a set of R6 and conti scrubs (different set). Yes, you MUST check your pressures after every session. I had a crap tire pressure gauge so I invested in a better one for $50. So checking pressures is easier and more accurate. I was pretty happy with the R6s a couple of weeks ago and the conti scrubs from this past weekend...both weekends were on the M3, not the 330. I guess it took me some time to get a feel for them. I'm finally comfortable sliding the car on these tires, and the excellence of the M3 sure helps.

So my advice for others on the fence is to be patient and check your expectations. There is an adjustment period...both on and off the track.

[bigjae1976]

Update. One tank slapper corded both of my rear tires...conti scrubs. IMO...these tires are more expensive to run than street tires which kind of defeats the purpose of getting the scrubs. Its kind of like your driving on egg shells. You have to be careful or else you'll ruin them.

Did a weekend on Dunlop Direzza's...MUCH happier and drove much better. All 4 of my tires are still serviceable.

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Update. One tank slapper corded both of my rear tires...conti scrubs. IMO...these tires are more expensive to run than street tires which kind of defeats the purpose of getting the scrubs. Its kind of like your driving on egg shells. You have to be careful or else you'll ruin them.

Interesting. This is one reason I've stayed away from them, though I have a friend that was advocating getting them. Since they already come so worn down, if you pay half the cost, but get one third the life, it's not really a value tire.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by klammer

You guys are making me rethink everything. NT01's in the future??? Maybe... but still think I'm improving on the AD08's and will ride those till I feel the need for the upgrade. Good discussion guys

klammer have you had any issue with chunking your ad08s. i have 1 tire of my 4 that has chunks about 1 inch in from the outside edge all the way around the tire. strange thing is it was last on my drivers rear which is the least used tire on my track.

[The HACK]

Just like everything else that goes on the car, new, stickier tires requires some "adjustment time" and learning period. Long, long time ago when I was but a mere advanced intermediate student, I switched cars from something that barely made 170 HP on a good day to something that made well over 270 as my track vehicle. Surprisingly, I was slower in the new, more powerful car at my first outing at a very familiar track. Part of the problem was I had already spent countless time in my old, low HP car on track and know all the nuances of that chassis, while the new chassis was technically superior on paper, it took me a while to work up the skills and guts to explore the limits of what it can do (as well as expose some nasty weaknesses).

Same thing with R-Comps. Unless you're skilled and equipped to deal with changing equipment all the time, treat putting on R-Comps like driving an unfamiliar car. The speed you get acclimated to the new equipment will depend heavily on your skills and experience, IMO.

[klammer]

Originally Posted by chriszeh

klammer have you had any issue with chunking your ad08s. i have 1 tire of my 4 that has chunks about 1 inch in from the outside edge all the way around the tire. strange thing is it was last on my drivers rear which is the least used tire on my track.

I have had no chunking problems. Just replaced my fronts last week as they were getting close to slicks and a puncture sealed the deal (or not) June is a busy month with about 5 days including 2 at road america so will keep an eye out for this. And to second the Hacks comments, want to keep the car and all things about it consistent for a bit to really "know" the car before I start shaking things up again.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Just like everything else that goes on the car, new, stickier tires requires some "adjustment time" and learning period. Long, long time ago when I was but a mere advanced intermediate student, I switched cars from something that barely made 170 HP on a good day to something that made well over 270 as my track vehicle. Surprisingly, I was slower in the new, more powerful car at my first outing at a very familiar track. Part of the problem was I had already spent countless time in my old, low HP car on track and know all the nuances of that chassis, while the new chassis was technically superior on paper, it took me a while to work up the skills and guts to explore the limits of what it can do (as well as expose some nasty weaknesses).

Same thing with R-Comps. Unless you're skilled and equipped to deal with changing equipment all the time, treat putting on R-Comps like driving an unfamiliar car. The speed you get acclimated to the new equipment will depend heavily on your skills and experience, IMO.

I agree. My issue is a cost issue. I thought the scrubs would be a cheaper way to put a sticky tire on my car which ended up not being the case. If I had a tire mounting and wheel balancing machine at my house...I would be all over this. But at $25 a wheel, plus the hassle of taking the tire to the shop, picking it up, then lugging them to the track...etc...etc. That's before considering the risk of how long the tire will last.

Street tires are way easier and cheaper while not losing a whole lot of grip if you ask me.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Street tires are way easier and cheaper while not losing a whole lot of grip if you ask me.

Actually, I found that through years of tracking my "spending" on track, the cheaper way to do it is keep street tires on the street, and have a 2nd set of tires for track ONLY. For reason I can not explain, when I used to track the same tires as what I drive on the street, I would go through an entire set in less than a year. Approximately 10,000 miles. When I invested in a separate set of rims and tires specifically for the track, the end result was 2 sets of tires every 3 years. Over the long haul, if I were to keep the same car (therefore the same rim/tire sizes), not using my street tires on track dramatically extended their usable life. In addition, my "track" tires tend to stay in their prime longer doing it this way.

Of course, the more time you spend on the track, the more "economical" it is to have a separate street and track tire IMO. And IF I were to price out brand new Star Specs for my sizes (which I can't even get), I'll bet they're more expensive than the scrubs I pick up from my club racing buddies (which are the right sizes for my apps).

Obviously, if you count the cost of the WHEELS involved, you'll need to keep tracking the same car 5-6 years and do up to 6 weekends a year to make it worth while. HOWEVER, used wheels you can always sell to recoup up to 65% of your investment.