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05-18-2008, 05:55 PM | #67 | |
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No car is problem free, and I bet if I go back through BMW's reliability record I can find just as many problems. |
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05-18-2008, 06:04 PM | #68 |
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Actually, pushrod engines are newer than OHC, which has been used by numerous carmakers not too long after the turn of the 20th century (Fiat, Peugeot, and Alfa Romeo GP to name a few of the vehicles during the 1910s to 1930s). The first OHV engine released commercially in the U.S. was in an Oldsmobile, in 1949.
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05-18-2008, 06:41 PM | #69 |
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What does that have to do with the current discussion? It goes without saying that just because technology derived from F1 racing resides in an engine does not necessarily make it superior to those that don't have that technology.
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05-18-2008, 06:52 PM | #70 | |
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I'm sure BMW has their share of problems, for example my parents had a 2005 545 and it had problems so BMW switched the VIN on their lease and gave them a brand new '07 550i.
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05-18-2008, 07:00 PM | #71 |
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Then by that same argument, the new M3 is based on even older technology, since it's using the same basic OHC design that's been in use for almost 100 years.
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05-18-2008, 07:07 PM | #72 | |
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05-18-2008, 07:28 PM | #73 |
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well im almost done resizing those damn pics, ive been so damn busy lately that whenever i try to resize/post em, something would come up.
Also ive kind of decided that after about 6 months, im gonna go ahead and purchase a procharger from mti, there known to produce reliable/ powerful supercharges for pretty good prices (unlike lingenfelter, f'n 48k for a twin turbo that give 750 hp). With the procharge (supercharger, whatever u wanna call it), it should be pushin around 680 bhp and anywhere between 626-647 whp. For now though, everytime i take it out for a drive, its a freakin blast BUNKEI, good points on supramans old tech arguement, keep spittin that knowledge at the blatantly biased Last edited by trah23; 05-18-2008 at 07:48 PM.. |
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05-18-2008, 08:08 PM | #74 | |
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BMW Performance Power Kit - Exhaust - Short Shifter - Suspension |
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05-18-2008, 08:36 PM | #75 | |
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Ring time 8:05 vs 7:50 that's 95%, well over half... all R&T numbers... 1/4 mile, M3 vs Z06 12.5 vs 12 stock 96%, well over 1/2 skid pad, M3 vs Z06 0.98 vs 0.96 102% slalom, M3 vs Z06 71.4 vs 71.2 100% 80-0, M3 vs Z06 197 vs 206 105% test mpg, M3 vs Z06 15 vs 14.1 not good to be ahead here please elaborate |
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05-18-2008, 09:21 PM | #76 | |
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Drives: '20 M5C, '09 M3 DCT Coupe
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Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here
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05-18-2008, 10:33 PM | #77 |
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artpe, i like how u pick the highest times that have been recorded with the lowest of the z06.
In actuality that 12.6 quarter mile (along with a 4.3 0-60 time) is pretty the fastest u can get out of M3 (with a skillfull shifter) which in its own rights is pretty badass. Now as far as the best vette times: 0-60: 3.6 sec quarter mile: 11.5 sec Dont give biased data. |
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05-18-2008, 10:50 PM | #78 | |
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05-19-2008, 12:02 AM | #79 |
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Maybe they did get 4.1 but remember this, the average shifter or hell even the above average shifter or even a shifter who is pretty damn skilled, will not get that 4.1 sec on an M3. Only a individual who not only is a f'in professional but a professional who shifted exactly perfectly, on an exactly perfect surface (drag strip/track, no inclines, not even the slightest) and on an exactly perfect day (no cross winds).
While I, just an average shifter, have already gotten 3.8 with the help of my buddys tach (records the time, nothing else) on a back road thats driven on daily by a countless number of people. And i forgot to address one more thing, i completly dumbfounded on how ArtPe tried to insinuate that the M3 gets better mpg than a z06, i tested all my shit so heres some data from reality not some fuckin article u supposedly read. In the city or fuckin freeway, if im in 4th-6th gear (which basically is all i drive in to conserve gas) i get between 24 & 29 mpg while the M3 gets a maximum of 20-22 mpg. So cut the shit and stop with the bullshit biased corvette bashing, its just lame and childish as hell. |
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05-19-2008, 03:12 AM | #82 | |
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Do you consider Chevy Cobalt SS as half the car as M3? What's your point? |
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05-19-2008, 03:50 AM | #83 |
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crap i completely missed Artpe false nurburg time, good catch DC52E55.
In actuality, like you said, it is 7:43 sec, i love how he skewed all his supposedly accurate times, what an ass. |
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05-19-2008, 10:32 AM | #84 | |
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Art, you make it clear you're an engineer and a numbers guy, so I guess you can be given a little latitude for deliberately taking the "M3 isn't half the car the Z06 is" comment literally, even though it was clear that was a figure of speech.
What you really shouldn't be given any latitude on is your completely strange numbers. As has already been said, the Z06 has an official time of 7:42.9, done on stock rubber with a hired assassin on board. The M3 did its 8:05 with Horst aboard, but with PSC+ rubber. Figure the 8:05 to be about right with PS2s and a hired gun... Quote:
M3 skid pad, .95G, Vette .99G. M3 slalom, 72.9 mph, Vette 70.6 mph. Kudos to the M3, although the Vette's extra 4.4 inches of width hurts it here (and nowhere else). M3 80 - 0, 195 feet, Vette 189 feet. M3 test mpg, 14.6 mpg, Vette 17.5 mpg. M3 EPA 14/20, Vette EPA 15/24. In short Art, if you're going to be a numbers guy, at least get them right. It's not possible to avoid BMW Kool-Aid drinkers on a site such as this, but I had you figured a little differently. Bruce |
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05-19-2008, 11:01 AM | #85 |
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Numbers and so on are a really great tool to compare cars. But to make it apples to apples they really need to be driven at the same place at the same time, i.e. all factors that can affect these objective results should be the same. Same road surface, same atmosphere, same driver, etc. is needed to get truly comparable results. It's really not worth a pissing contest.
Both are great cars. The M3 is built better (at least better than the vettes I've driven and ridden in), is more practical, luxurious and comfortable. For what the vette loses in these categories to the M3 it gains in all out performance - acceleration, roadholding, etc. Both of these cars are a blast to drive. I'm glad we have the choice. We don't all have to agree with our choices. Let's just agree that they are both great yet different cars and move on. No one can be the best "car". Maybe the best at this or that, but all around it cannot be said because so many things are more important to one person than another.
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05-19-2008, 08:38 PM | #87 | |
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you are neglecting the rest of the comparisons... |
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05-19-2008, 08:42 PM | #88 | |
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the time you quoted was a pre-production special driven by a pro driver... 7:49 --- 158.12 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 512 PS/1440 kg (sport auto 06/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=0&tID=129099 www.youtube.com/watch?v=62WfAYRcaHI the statement was made that the M3 is not 1/2 the car the Z06 was...I countered that is far more than 1/2, and exceeds in some testing parameters... I never said anything derogatory about the Z06, just called BS when the statement was made that the M3 is not '1/2' the car the vette is...that statement is patently absurd... |
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