GC camber plates: Review of failed install(s)

[Sleeper519]

Here is my tale of woe trying to get these installed on my E92 before my first track event of the season. First of all, let me state up front that this is not a bash on Ground Control at all. I understand them to be a reputable provider of aftermarket suspension parts and systems, and they have been very responsive to me in trying to resolve these multiple problems despite a great geographical distance.

I ordered my camber plates weeks ahead of time to avoid any last minute delays. I took my car to Forged Performance in Atlanta to install my StopTech BBK as well as the GC plates. They are expert tuners specializing in GTRs but also do Porsche and BMW, and provided me outstanding customer service. I received a call on install day saying it didn’t fit---spring perch on the plates would not fit on my springs. A call and e-mail photo to GC revealed that they had sent me “Non-M3” parts by mistake. Big bummer. Picked up car, great brakes though. GC ships new appropriate sized plates to me and we try it again 3 days later. I get a call from Forged that a bolt snapped off on install with very little force. Major bummer. As I mentioned in the other thread the bolts are supposedly tested to 50 ft-lbs but spec is for 18 ft-lbs. This one broke at 17. Ryan at Forged was kind enough to take and send multiple pics to GC and plead my case for me. Initially, GC balked at replacing the piece (single thin horseshoe bracket w/ the 3 vertical bolts), saying that it has been thoroughly tested and not considered a warranty item (??)—a $15 item on a $500 pair of plates. They did acquiesce and agree to honor the warranty and send a replacement part via next day air ($65 shipping on me). Now I’m in a rental car to get to work, and have paid labor for 2 installs and no finished product to show for it. Parts arrive, 3rd install completed with a *cautious* 17 ft-lbs of torque, I get call car is ready. Go to pick up, get under the hood to check work and notice said bolt is broken off and can be plucked straight out to the amazement of all. Forged had only test-driven car around the block prior to my arrival. Stranded, no car now, a gracious Forged employee gives me a courtesy ride across town to work (night Call at hospital—actually walked 2 miles home at 3:00AM), track event now in jeopardy. Nuclear bummer. Forged un-installs and replaces stock mounts. So now I pick up my car after a week and a half, having paid over $600 labor for 3 installs with zero to show for it, plus shipping costs, plus out of pocket rental car fees, plus incalculable hassle and heartache.

Another forum member here (Kaiv?) reported a similar bolt failure on install. Seeing this pattern, I wonder if its a flawed design. GC disagrees. Perhaps a bad batch or quality controls issue? Maybe, but I think this item in question is the weak link to theis particular camber plate. I’m not a mechanical engineer by any means so take what I say with a grain of salt. By attempting to keep the stack height stock (not raised), they shaved off the head of the one bolt that needed to slide over a lower plate. The headless bolt has only a few threads engaged into a very thin plate, with a small tack weld to support it. It failed twice at a fraction of the tested torque. If they redesigned it to allow the bolt head to stay, this would only raise the stack by 1/8” or so---1/4” at most---but would be so much stronger.
I discussed all this with Ground Control and they were very reasonable and sympathetic to my poor experience with their product. They agreed to refund my original purchase price but could do nothing for me, as expected, on any other of my incurred costs. The last conversation I had with Donovan was that they were looking at this as a bad batch of product and were seeking to improve quality control on this plate, or maybe looking into a possible engineering fault. Hopefully the GC techs can shed some light on this for all of us. He also told me to keep the plates that I have (despite being a worthless box of parts to me as is), and they will send me another bolted bracket when, and if, the kinks can be worked out. At this point I don’t if I would be willing to try it again or not. We’ll see. I just feel snake bit right now.

[kaiv]

Hey! I did run into the same issue (as I mentioned in another thread).

You are correct in your assessment of the issue. It is a weak link in this plate. 3 studs on the sliding part. One has the head shaved off to clear the plate. That's the one that breaks. It is indeed held only by a couple threads and a spot weld.

I spoke with GC and they recognized that this one stud is not very strong by design and said it has to be tightened with care and by hand.

They honored the warranty without issues though. I was worried I was gonna have to fight and argue that I didn't break it by over tightening but that wasn't the case. They sent me replacement parts right away via regular ground at no extra charge. I also asked for a spare one for the other side "just in case" so they sent me a pair.

I was a bit worried when I went to get my alignment done (since it has to be loosed/tightened) but I let the tech know and everything went smoothly.

I've since been to the track a few times without issues.



Anyways... I feel your pain. I installed those myself so I only wasted my own time and did not have to pay an installer again and again but either way it's a little disappointing and certainly unexpected coming from a company with such a good reputation. That and those plates aren't exactly cheap either... I'm glad I wasn't disappointed with their customer service.

[SlamMan]

Man that's a real bummer. I certainly understand your frustration. That sucks you're out so much time and money with nothing to show.

It looks like the failure was the bolt itself and not just the weld in the last picture since the end of the bolt is still in there. Remind me again, is this the short stack kit? The GC sleeve over kit I just pulled out doesn't have any headless bolts and I'm pretty sure the street plate kit I replaced it with didn't either. I'm pretty sure they all had the heads on the bolts.

[Bubbles]

OP-sorry for your troubles. I've been quietly shopping camber plates, not sure GC is on my list anymore. While GC seems to have been working with you, "kid gloves" should not be required for bolts tested to 50lbs.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Here is my tale of woe trying to get these installed on my E92 before my first track event of the season. First of all, let me state up front that this is not a bash on Ground Control at all. I understand them to be a reputable provider of aftermarket suspension parts and systems, and they have been very responsive to me in trying to resolve these multiple problems despite a great geographical distance.

I ordered my camber plates weeks ahead of time to avoid any last minute delays. I took my car to Forged Performance in Atlanta to install my StopTech BBK as well as the GC plates. They are expert tuners specializing in GTRs but also do Porsche and BMW, and provided me outstanding customer service. I received a call on install day saying it didn’t fit---spring perch on the plates would not fit on my springs. A call and e-mail photo to GC revealed that they had sent me “Non-M3” parts by mistake. Big bummer. Picked up car, great brakes though. GC ships new appropriate sized plates to me and we try it again 3 days later. I get a call from Forged that a bolt snapped off on install with very little force. Major bummer. As I mentioned in the other thread the bolts are supposedly tested to 50 ft-lbs but spec is for 18 ft-lbs. This one broke at 17. Ryan at Forged was kind enough to take and send multiple pics to GC and plead my case for me. Initially, GC balked at replacing the piece (single thin horseshoe bracket w/ the 3 vertical bolts), saying that it has been thoroughly tested and not considered a warranty item (??)—a $15 item on a $500 pair of plates. They did acquiesce and agree to honor the warranty and send a replacement part via next day air ($65 shipping on me). Now I’m in a rental car to get to work, and have paid labor for 2 installs and no finished product to show for it. Parts arrive, 3rd install completed with a *cautious* 17 ft-lbs of torque, I get call car is ready. Go to pick up, get under the hood to check work and notice said bolt is broken off and can be plucked straight out to the amazement of all. Forged had only test-driven car around the block prior to my arrival. Stranded, no car now, a gracious Forged employee gives me a courtesy ride across town to work (night Call at hospital—actually walked 2 miles home at 3:00AM), track event now in jeopardy. Nuclear bummer. Forged un-installs and replaces stock mounts. So now I pick up my car after a week and a half, having paid over $600 labor for 3 installs with zero to show for it, plus shipping costs, plus out of pocket rental car fees, plus incalculable hassle and heartache.

Another forum member here (Kaiv?) reported a similar bolt failure on install. Seeing this pattern, I wonder if its a flawed design. GC disagrees. Perhaps a bad batch or quality controls issue? Maybe, but I think this item in question is the weak link to theis particular camber plate. I’m not a mechanical engineer by any means so take what I say with a grain of salt. By attempting to keep the stack height stock (not raised), they shaved off the head of the one bolt that needed to slide over a lower plate. The headless bolt has only a few threads engaged into a very thin plate, with a small tack weld to support it. It failed twice at a fraction of the tested torque. If they redesigned it to allow the bolt head to stay, this would only raise the stack by 1/8” or so---1/4” at most---but would be so much stronger.
I discussed all this with Ground Control and they were very reasonable and sympathetic to my poor experience with their product. They agreed to refund my original purchase price but could do nothing for me, as expected, on any other of my incurred costs. The last conversation I had with Donovan was that they were looking at this as a bad batch of product and were seeking to improve quality control on this plate, or maybe looking into a possible engineering fault. Hopefully the GC techs can shed some light on this for all of us. He also told me to keep the plates that I have (despite being a worthless box of parts to me as is), and they will send me another bolted bracket when, and if, the kinks can be worked out. At this point I don’t if I would be willing to try it again or not. We’ll see. I just feel snake bit right now.

This looks to be a bolt material and welding issue (stress corrosion cracking) more than anything else. If GC is randomly using any type of steel material for the bolts then I would say good luck with that. Most fastener materials are not going to do well after being welded. I agree with the user the design is less than elegant and is kind of asking for trouble. A better design would be projection welded stud which is very low profile and clean.

I really see this as a minor issue so it should not scare anyone one away for this product.

[TX335]

Originally Posted by Orb

I really see this as a minor issue so it should scare anyone one away for this product.

Should or shouldn't?

[VictorH]

Yes, I wonder too if the heat treat of the stud was affected by the welding. it doesn't look like the plate or the weld failed it appears to be the stud.

The other odd thing is why were the other two studs welded and then the plate was zinc plated but the stud without the head was welded on after the plate was plated? Seems to me that you would install and weld all the studs then send the whole thing off to be plated afterwards.

Sorry you've had such bad luck. I checked my studs tonight (and two track days weekend before last) and all nice and tight still. Hope you're able to find a suitable replacement.

[tibra1]

Go with Vorschlags and call it a day

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by VictorH

Yes, I wonder too if the heat treat of the stud was affected by the welding. it doesn't look like the plate or the weld failed it appears to be the stud.

The other odd thing is why were the other two studs welded and then the plate was zinc plated but the stud without the head was welded on after the plate was plated? Seems to me that you would install and weld all the studs then send the whole thing off to be plated afterwards.

Sorry you've had such bad luck. I checked my studs tonight (and two track days weekend before last) and all nice and tight still. Hope you're able to find a suitable replacement.

I wondered about the heat treatment too, whether that tempering would make the bolt brittle, since it appears that it was the bolt itself that broke, not the weld.

Originally Posted by tibra1

Go with Vorschlags and call it a day

Does Vorschlag make an adjustable camber plate for the E92 M3??

[STALKER]

I checked my plates today, my plates have the 3 bolts but none of them are shaved done, but they all have the one spot weld.

Mine are used with coil overs, not with stock springs.

[STALKER]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

I wondered about the heat treatment too, whether that tempering would make the bolt brittle, since it appears that it was the bolt itself that broke, not the weld.



Does Vorschlag make an adjustable camber plate for the E92 M3??

Not sure if their plates will fit the stock springs. I think Harold@HP Autowerks will be able to help you on this.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Does Vorschlag make an adjustable camber plate for the E92 M3??

They do but not for OEM upper perch...Click here

Vorshlag or HPA can help you on fitment for your suspension

[quads]

hey! you're in atlanta! let's get together sometime! I also had my GC plates installed by Forged. I've got st tropies and akra evo with ess blower

[STALKER]

OP, which hospital do you work at? I did some of my training in ATL and was working there from 2009-2011.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by tibra1

They do but not for OEM upper perch...

Vorshlag or HPA can help you on fitment for your suspension

I believe the OP is using OEM springs so Vorshlag camber plates won't work. Currently only GC makes a camber plate that works with OEM springs.

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

hey! you're in atlanta! let's get together sometime! I also had my GC plates installed by Forged. I've got st tropies and akra evo with ess blower

Sounds good! I'd love to check out the ESS.

Originally Posted by STALKER

OP, which hospital do you work at? I did some of my training in ATL and was working there from 2009-2011.

I'm at St. Joseph's (Anesthesiologist---hence my username ). Trained at Emory Univ... a long ways back.

[Malek@MRF]

For those wondering, Ground Control will have a re-designed version of their camber plates to address this issue.

They shouldn't have any problem honoring their warranty on these failures, they have pretty good customer service.

Malek

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

For those wondering, Ground Control will have a re-designed version of their camber plates to address this issue.

They shouldn't have any problem honoring their warranty on these failures, they have pretty good customer service.

Malek

In for details. I'm holding off on buying these until the re-design comes out. I'm always loosening and tightening those 3 bolts on my vorshlag plates on my E46...surprised this has not been a more common issue here.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Orb

This looks to be a bolt material and welding issue (stress corrosion cracking) more than anything else. If GC is randomly using any type of steel material for the bolts then I would say good luck with that. Most fastener materials are not going to do well after being welded. I agree with the user the design is less than elegant and is kind of asking for trouble. A better design would be projection welded stud which is very low profile and clean.

I really see this as a minor issue so it should not scare anyone one away for this product.

ORB, good to see you around again. Been a long time.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

In for details. I'm holding off on buying these until the re-design comes out. I'm always loosening and tightening those 3 bolts on my vorshlag plates on my E46...surprised this has not been a more common issue here.

It sounds like everyone, including me, that's using the GC camber plates with 2.5", 2.0" or 60 mm springs doesn't have this problem because all three bolts have their head welded to the bracket.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

In for details. I'm holding off on buying these until the re-design comes out. I'm always loosening and tightening those 3 bolts on my vorshlag plates on my E46...surprised this has not been a more common issue here.

I have the new version being delivered this week for an E92 M3 that utilizes the factory tapered spring.

When I get it in my hands, I will snap some pictures of the differences. It will be here end of this week or early next week according to my rep at Ground Control.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Malekreza11

I have the new version being delivered this week for an E92 M3 that utilizes the factory tapered spring.

When I get it in my hands, I will snap some pictures of the differences. It will be here end of this week or early next week according to my rep at Ground Control.

Thanks. I have full confidence that GC will resolve this issue.

Where is the best place to buy them from?...once they get the issues sorted.