Tested GTR & GT2

[spearfisher]

http://magazines.drivers-republic.co...c/thetruth030/

[eagletangogreen]

nice find!

[MJC///M3]

good read! thanks for posting.....would love to get behind the wheel of the GT2!

[icemang17]

How much proof do we need that "godzilla" isn't nearly as mighty as originally thought...

[Sedan_Clan]

Good read!

[ersin]

Very nice presentation. I like how they sectioned off the track on the map and put the text right there with the graphic.

This is really nothing new, it just seems to echo what many others have said about these two cars. The GT-R is massive, a technological feat, maybe a little fragile, and uses mechanics and computers to help the driver out. It does things for the driver, insulating him from the minutia, so that the maximum the car can give is dished out.

The GT2 is a monster, light, overpriced, but instead of doing things for you like the Nissan, it gives the driver more information about it and its environment to allow him to exercise his own driving abilities. The GT2 makes the driver work to get the maximum from the car; it is more dependent on driver skill than the GT-R. But it seems clear that it has more performance than the GT-R.

Not to take anything away from the GT-R -- it's fantastic -- but the Porsche has to be the more rewarding car to drive. Is it worth the price differential? I'd say yes, given the horror stories I've heard about Nissan maintenance on the GT-R. It might cost less initially, but it seems to catch up to the P-car in price in the long run.

As a side note, it's been reported that some that have driven both the GT-R and M3 prefer to drive the M3; it's a more rewarding drive. Hey, I wonder if the M3 is as fun to drive as the GT2? Ha, ha, right.

[GnokGnik]

Even though I am a p-car fan boy, nissan really did something special with that GT-R. Think about it, That nissan tank is being compared to a fricken GT-2 on the track, that's the top of the line Porsche (outside the CGT of course).

I think Porsche really has to reinstate itself as the reasonable-super-car automaker if it still wants to overcharge car buyers like it has. The Turbo and the GT3 need to be faster than the GT-R AND the Z06, not the GT2.

[!Xoible]

very annoying read, i hated all the fluff and intro shit... just get me fucking data and STFU!

thanks for posting

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GnokGnik

Even though I am a p-car fan boy, nissan really did something special with that GT-R. Think about it, That nissan tank is being compared to a fricken GT-2 on the track, that's the top of the line Porsche (outside the CGT of course).

I think Porsche really has to reinstate itself as the reasonable-super-car automaker if it still wants to overcharge car buyers like it has. The Turbo and the GT3 need to be faster than the GT-R AND the Z06, not the GT2.

I don't think that your 'typical' Porsche buyer is going to consider a GTR. The GT2 and GT3 don't necessarily need to be faster. Speed isn't the only factor in this equation. Hell, the GT2 has what.....500 HP? How much HP does an individual really need. The car takes masterful inputs to control as it is.

[jaiman]

Originally Posted by icemang17

How much proof do we need that "godzilla" isn't nearly as mighty as originally thought...

Bahahaha! A car designed to be a cheaper version of a 911tt, keeps up with a GT2.

[doba_s]

GT2 is the daddy ! haha ...

[GnokGnik]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't think that your 'typical' Porsche buyer is going to consider a GTR. The GT2 and GT3 don't necessarily need to be faster. Speed isn't the only factor in this equation. Hell, the GT2 has what.....500 HP? How much HP does an individual really need. The car takes masterful inputs to control as it is.

I agree, but those inputs need to have tremendous results for porsche to justify those prices.

[M2381]

Good find and good read

[graider]

I think the GTR is heading in the right direction. It is way more technological advanced than the porsche which equate to superior engineering. The porsche is very simple track car with not much advanced technology, so it is way overprice for what it is.

Just like Unix vs Windows. Sure Unix is faster, more serious for business, more raw, but it is just a black screen to look at it. Windows, you can do so much more such as playing around with nice graphic, watch video in high resolution, play game in high resolution, listen to your tune in surround sound, etc. Now which one would you go for?

unix = porsche
windows = gtr (majority of people will like it and that's the whole point of the car, it is a gt supercar made for everyone in any weather condition and I think nissan did a good job)

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by graider

I think the GTR is heading in the right direction. It is way more technological advanced than the porsche which equate to superior engineering. The porsche is very simple track car with not much advanced technology, so it is way overprice for what it is.

Hmmm....Technologically advanced because it does the driving for you. I don't really consider that to be a good thing. It's like purchasing a video game with subpar A/I, and that can be beaten in an hour. Where is the fun in that?

Originally Posted by graider

Just like Unix vs Windows. Sure Unix is faster, more serious for business, more raw, but it is just a black screen to look at it. Windows, you can do so much more such as playing around with nice graphic, watch video in high resolution, play game in high resolution, listen to your tune in surround sound, etc. Now which one would you go for?

It depends on what you need out of your experience. Do you want gizmos and gadgets or do you want a visceral experience? Using your analogy, sure....Windows looks cool, has a ton of features, etc.....but it is also exploited and the most compromised. Unix is in your face.....serious business for the serious individual. An OS that requires knowledge to reap the benefits. With that being said, using an OS as an analogy wasn't a good choice.

Originally Posted by graider

unix = porsche
windows = gtr (majority of people will like it and that's the whole point of the car, it is a gt supercar made for everyone in any weather condition and I think nissan did a good job)

I can agree....

...but super computers most likely don't use Windows.

Porsche FTW!

[zacbol]

Originally Posted by graider

<snip>

unix = porsche
windows = gtr (majority of people will like it and that's the whole point of the car, it is a gt supercar made for everyone in any weather condition and I think nissan did a good job)

I think the analogy isn't terribly appropriate, but may be apt in ways the original poster didn't intend: Windows has always tended to have a broader appeal, is cheaper (Linux is a different OS), tends to be a bit more flashy, but it tends to break down (i.e. crash) quite a bit more frequently. Unix on the other hand is rock solid as OSes go and has been iteratively refined now over very many years.

That said, I still don't get all the bashing on the GTR. The fact that it's being compared to *any* Porsche, let alone the GT2, is a true testament to Nissan's engineering team. I was seriously considering one prior to getting my M3. The main reason I crossed if off my short list was its general unavailability and that with markups it neared the 100K mark. And something about the M3 seemed to better fit my personality.

I have no problem admitting there are aspects of the car that still have me a little envious (its performance with or without LC handily outstrips the M3). The interior does not look particularly inviting, though, and I'm certainly not envious of the first year growing pains it seems to be having (Reading Edmunds' long term test, whether representative or not, would be enough to keep me away for a year or two). It's still an amazing car.

The real failure on the part of Nissan is the way its been marketed: quietly upping the price after initial reviews, the LC debacle, etc.

[watrob]

A mate of mine just bought a GT2, pulled the rollcage out and put the back seats in and made it a street car for DD!

[footie]

Some may find this interesting, other may not but I looked at both of Driver Republic's laps (GT2 vs GTR) and found that on the most demanding section of the Nurburgring the GTR and the GT2 posted identical times through this section.

I highlighted the section in question here on DR's map, it's the section between the two red circles. That is very impressive for a car costing almost a third of the other and almost weighing nearly 400Kgs more with even less power and torque.



If it wasn't for the fact that I am neither won over by the looks or the brand I would say it would have been a no brainer to pick the GTR over all others, including the M3.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by footie

Some may find this interesting, other may not but I looked at both of Driver Republic's laps (GT2 vs GTR) and found that on the most demanding section of the Nurburgring the GTR and the GT2 posted identical times through this section.

I highlighted the section in question here on DR's map, it's the section between the two red circles. That is very impressive for a car costing almost a third of the other and almost weighing nearly 400Kgs more with even less power and torque.



If it wasn't for the fact that I am neither won over by the looks or the brand I would say it would have been a no brainer to pick the GTR over all others, including the M3.

Out of curiosity footie, what are your thoughts about Nissan selling every GTR at a loss? I've read on numerous accounts that the price point is set below what it costs to manufacture the vehicle (..all ridiculous mark-ups aside). If this is true, that would negate some of the low cost comments made in favor of the GTR. Especially since we all know that Porsche makes profit off of every vehicle that they sell.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Out of curiosity footie, what are your thoughts about Nissan selling every GTR at a loss? I've read on numerous accounts that the price point is set below what it costs to manufacture the vehicle (..all ridiculous mark-ups aside). If this is true, that would negate some of the low cost comments made in favor of the GTR. Especially since we all know that Porsche makes profit off of every vehicle that they sell.

I wouldn't be surprised by this statement. After all everyone, even the doubters among us can't believe how Nissan has producted such an impressive machine which matches everything else costing twice to three times as much. The same is said to be true for the Veyron so I reckon Nissan have looked at the GTR as I PR exercise to improve it's image and in this I reckon it is working, just look at how many would-be Porsche and M drivers are either considering or driving the GTR now.

[jaiman]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I've read on numerous accounts that the price point is set below what it costs to manufacture the vehicle

Can you provide a source for that? I was under the impression that the price of the car covers the cost to manufacture it, excluding each cars share of R&D.

[Congoman775]

i posted this on a GTR forum and got banned for trolling.