I am a Toyota Supra owner, who can agree?

[Mischief2JZ]

What's up guys, I am a new member here for this site and I gotta say, its one hell of a site! Very nice people and extremely informative!

I have been looking around for cars until I set my eyes on the 135i about 5 months ago. Oh man, once I heard that the 3.0TT was going to be in there, I was sold. I love EVERYTHING about this car, but what I love most is the engine design.

Now, I might get flamed for doing this i.e. maybe this topic has been discussed, or I should never compare Toyota to BMW(yea whatever). BUT!

The only reason why I am going to purchase this car is because of the engine. Who can agree that the Toyota Supra TT engine(Which I currently own, BL67DBB kit 500+whp, stock fuel!) is comparable to the BMW's 3.0 TT???

Now for the people that don't know here are some specs that I can remember.
Toyota Supra TT
3.0L
Cast iron block, aluminum head
9:5:1 compression
Inline 6 cylinder
Twin Turbo (CT26)
Sequential system
Air to Air cooled

Now, the only reason why I even "THINK" its comparable is because for one, it's a inline 6, and second, twin turbo.

I know that the 135's block is aluminum(different), BMW's higher compression(10:5:1??), different turbos(DUH!), intake manifold design is FAR more advanced!

I am just amazed how BMW came up with the 335 and now the 135. I am putting a deposit down soon! I just want to learn as much as I can about the 135's engine design.(shit I don't even know the engine code, so someone please inform me!) So, TEACH ME! (and please don't put me down with the "search" comment..

And please don't say Toyota can never compared to BMW because I would have to say(I am being biased) that the Toyota Supras 2JZ-GTE engine is probably the best engine that is known to man. (most horsepower on stock longblock, the impossible factor to blow anything on that engine unless you're an idiot, and I can go on forever!

So, opinions?? :thumbup::headbang: Flame on, or cheer on!

[ichiban]

one major difference being the 2JZ motor is ooooooold, i mean really old. This amounts to the N54 having magnesium block, direct injection and as you've stated better intake manifold design. All these modern techs makes the N54 more fuel efficient, produces less smog, lighter engine. But in my eyes, the major difference to a car enthusiast that's looking for aftermarket modification (valid for you cause your a supra owner, and we all know once you get your hands on this it wont stay stock for long), the bmw is going to be a lot more expansive to fix if you botch anything up.

The Supra and the 135i may have the same engine configuration, but they are vastly different vehicles. Welcome to the boards and i hope you find the 1er to be what you're expecting.

[atr_hugo]

Mischief2JZ - welcome aboard!! The other (and probably biggest differentiator) of the two engines is the Direct Fuel Injection of the BMW N54 block. That's the reason the compression ratio can be fairly high on the BMW six. Here's a good document to download and peruse: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...78&postcount=1

I'm with you I really like inline sixes and both Toyota and BMW are engineering powerhouses. The BMW N54 block just takes advantage of the advances in technology that weren't available at the time to Toyota. Toyota now seems committed to the V6 design and there are packaging strengths in that format especially when the engine has to be shared between rear wheel and front wheel drive vehicles. AFAIK the only carmaker to pursue a transverse mounted inline six has been Volvo (and IIRC, it was also turbocharged).

[~AJ]

You are a Toyota Supra owner, I agree.

[Mischief2JZ]

^^^^haha i love that comment. Even though you disagree, you were still nice about it agreeing that i am just a toyota supra owner.

How about this, the bmw n54 is basically a supra engine but but with way better enhanced surgery. Lets just hope that the n54's stock long block can handle 800whp. Even though thats not even 99.9% of the enthusiasts goal.

I cant wait to see how this car handles on the road course. Once i break it in, im going to take a couple laps at laguna and infenion. And of course my favorite track of all time, thunder hill.

Please excuse my grammar if there is any. Im on my iphone and im lazy.

[Brandon26pdx]

I would guess the N54 will be comparable in power potential (eventually). Not sure how the rest of the BMW would hold up to that kind of power though. The Getrag transmission and Torsen diff in the Toyota can withstand 4-digit horsepower.:roundel:

[larryn]

Welcome!

I would guess that the snails on the baby bimmer are going to be tough (but not impossible) to replace. If you look at the size of them and how they are positioned, you can see that they are crammed in a tight area, and there is little room for anything much larger than the tiny turbos.

There's a whole sub-forum on the tuning on the N54 over at e90post, and they have done impressive things to the stock hardware so far. Software alone can get you 400rwhp/400+tq with stock fuel. There's a few tuners working on aftermarket turbos as well, that you can see their progress (that they'll allow us to see).

I have no idea what the potential is for the motor internals, but the new Alpina B3 chose to replace the N54's pistons to match the extra output they are providing. I wonder if they know something that the aftermarket tuners don't....

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by larryn

Welcome!

I have no idea what the potential is for the motor internals, but the new Alpina B3 chose to replace the N54's pistons to match the extra output they are providing. I wonder if they know something that the aftermarket tuners don't....

Are you thinking that the pistons could be a failure point?

That could be possible, but it is pretty common to put lighter/different shaped pistons in engines as an upgrade. Lighter pistons generally allow higher RPM. They could have a goal like that too, and it isn't related to a failure point. I haven't heard of anything like that.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by larryn

I have no idea what the potential is for the motor internals, but the new Alpina B3 chose to replace the N54's pistons to match the extra output they are providing. I wonder if they know something that the aftermarket tuners don't....

Originally Posted by Nixon

Are you thinking that the pistons could be a failure point?

That could be possible, but it is pretty common to put lighter/different shaped pistons in engines as an upgrade. Lighter pistons generally allow higher RPM. They could have a goal like that too, and it isn't related to a failure point. I haven't heard of anything like that.

There are several good reasons for a piston swap, but one obvious goal would be to lower the compression ratio. I haven't seen any specs on the Alpina motor but you can certainly buy yourself some margin at higher boost levels by doing that. The other mentioned reasons (strength, weight) are likely also, although if it were merely to beef up the rotating bits then they should have replaced the connecting rods/pins also. Those usually fail before the piston itself assuming the mixture isn't too lean. Maybe they did? :iono:

[turbomg]

If you've been following the N54 tuner wars over on e90post, you know that they're quickly coming to the limit of what the tiny stock turbos can handle. There have been a few people investigating the options available for larger turbos, but I believe most people are finding that there simply isn't any room for a pair of larger turbines.

I hope they figure something out though.

[Mischief2JZ]

that's almost the same reason for s2k owners. They don't have much room for turbo manifold and turbo clearance. That's why a lot of tuners are making longer runners that would either go further forward or more backwards THEN placing the turbo there.

I'm on my iPhone I will post pics up of how they mount their manifolds

[Brandon26pdx]

They should have larger trim turbos available that bolt-up to the stock hardware (manifolds, downpipe, etc) before too long. Mitsubishi makes them in different trims and airflow parameters even within the same compressor/turbine housing size. (TD03 is it?)

[~AJ]

I still agree, you are a Toyota Supra owner.

[hector]

Originally Posted by AJ~

You are a Toyota Supra owner, I agree.

damn, u beat me to it:mad:.

[Mischief2JZ]

so you can't agree that the n54 isn't in the same league as the 2jzgte? This is for hector and aj?

2jzs are one of the best engines engineered still to this day even though its thirteen years old.

Someone please tell me the flaws of the 2jz.

Look at horsepower freaks, they basically utilized their r&d from the supra and put it in to the e46 motors. That shows something.

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by Mischief2JZ

2jzs are one of the best engines engineered still to this day even though its thirteen years old.

I don't think anyone will dispute that, specifically there ability to make lots of power.

[ichiban]

the engine may be bullet proof, but how many supras do you see around the track? i'm not thrashing on the supra cause it's damn fast. But just saying the 135i will be fast in a straight line and around the track (after some suspension mods).

[Brandon26pdx]

Originally Posted by ichiban

the engine may be bullet proof, but how many supras do you see around the track? i'm not thrashing on the supra cause it's damn fast. But just saying the 135i will be fast in a straight line and around the track (after some suspension mods).

Actually a Supra is not that much heavier than a 135i. Probably within 150 lbs...:iono:

[~AJ]

Originally Posted by Mischief2JZ

so you can't agree that the n54 isn't in the same league as the 2jzgte? This is for hector and aj?

2jzs are one of the best engines engineered still to this day even though its thirteen years old.

Someone please tell me the flaws of the 2jz.

Look at horsepower freaks, they basically utilized their r&d from the supra and put it in to the e46 motors. That shows something.

Supra is a nice car, no doubt. It is not however, a car I would put on a pedestal. There are others better deserving of that kind of idolation.

The Supra doesn't really bring anything to the table that is truly world beating. Good engine, sure. Good transmission, ok. Independent rear drive; nice. Disc breaks all around, cool. Handles ok, it's fast enough, and it is comfortable and practicle. It's just a car that did a lot of things right. Nothing really earth shattering about it.

Flaws? None that I am aware of. Just a nice, '90's Japanese GT car.

-AJ

[~AJ]

Oh, and we all agree that you are a Toyota Supra owner.

[Brandon26pdx]

Originally Posted by AJ~

Supra is a nice car, no doubt. It is not however, a car I would put on a pedestal. There are others better deserving of that kind of idolation.

The Supra doesn't really bring anything to the table that is truly world beating. Good engine, sure. Good transmission, ok. Independent rear drive; nice. Disc breaks all around, cool. Handles ok, it's fast enough, and it is comfortable and practicle. It's just a car that did a lot of things right. Nothing really earth shattering about it.

Flaws? None that I am aware of. Just a nice, '90's Japanese GT car.

-AJ

Stylewise, it wasn't the stuff legends are made of. The powertrain...that's different story. It's one of the baddest mass produced (relatively) cars to ever roll off an assembly line. Up there with the late 90's Skyline GT-R's

[BMWeber]

Originally Posted by Brandon26pdx

Stylewise, it wasn't the stuff legends are made of. The powertrain...that's different story. It's one of the baddest mass produced (relatively) cars to ever roll off an assembly line. Up there with the late 90's Skyline GT-R's

I agree about the powertrain, if i had a bunch of money and wanted to build my self a 9sec car it would be supra all the way. well at lest until we find out if we can get 1000hp out of a N54 :biggrin: