Let's talk X-pipe designs....

powertrip · 06-16-2009, 10:35 PM

So, I've been putting some thought into maximizing the amount of power that my car puts out while retaining the factory cats. I'm wondering how x-pipe design comes into play, and which design makes the most power. Following are a few designs out....

1) Encore Innovation- Straight piping with sharp angles going into the actual "X" of the pipe.

2) Fabspeed- Stepped piping going into a smooth "X" section.

3) Challenge- Smooth piping going into a smooth "X" section.

4) Gintani- Smooth piping with the "X" section being closer to the stock cat location than any of the others.

5) Active Autowerke- Smooth piping with the "X" section being located near stock location (smooth bends as well).

So, which makes better power? Any recommendations?

E93_M3 · 06-16-2009, 10:48 PM

Encore Innovation have very good product and i have their x-pipe right now i am can feel the different, love it!!

powertrip · 06-16-2009, 10:51 PM

^^^ Thanks for the opinion, but I'm looking for technical analysis of which "X" design would work best (in theory of course).

ebohon · 06-17-2009, 12:14 AM

Intersting topic. I suspect that if you get any technical analysis, it will all be biased. All in favor of course of the vendor/fabricator that chooses to chime in. There is obviously differences but at a negligible level and probably greater differences in design for product differentiation and harmonics. If all were the same design... can you say commodity and lower cost?

BimmerRob08 · 06-17-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93_M3

Encore Innovation have very good product and i have their x-pipe right now i am can feel the different, love it!!

Did you get it with the HFC? any check lights? I've got this x-pipe on order so am wondering.

To the OP, without technical anaylisis. I doubt that smooth bends or sharper bends in x-pipe design will cause any more back pressure than one another if the tubing is about the same diameter. Since there not 90 degree turns on the EI for example, I can't imagine it would even be noticable on a dyno test compared to another pipe such as the Fabspeed. Of course as long as the same CAT's, resinators, muffler are being compared. I would think pipe diameter would be the greater issue or if at the x-pipe crossing is a tighter diameter that could be a factor. Hope that helps,

MrHarris · 06-17-2009, 01:56 AM

What about RPi? I know their exhaust makes huge gains in torque.

TheKosherStogie · 06-17-2009, 02:05 AM

the guys at gintani explained that they put the "X" closer to engine or headers than the rest of pipes out there..saying u want the exhaust pulses to cross as soon as possible so you get "x pipe effect" sooner..and then the gas can travel straight out..smoother

rather than having it travel then cross then come right out

this is as i remember it being explained to me at their shop

MrHarris · 06-17-2009, 02:11 AM

Anyone know how much power the full gintani exhaust makes?

powertrip · 06-17-2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHarris

Anyone know how much power the full gintani exhaust makes?

I'm thinking they claim around 25-30hp for header back.

J08M3 · 06-17-2009, 06:06 AM

The only thing that could possibly make a difference that might be measurable would be the location of the X. As sammyrusso said the difference would have to do with the timing of the pulses. My feeling (without testing myself) is even X location would be a difference so small you couldn't even measure it accurately on a dyno.

Nawaaz · 06-17-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyrusso

the guys at gintani explained that they put the "X" closer to engine or headers than the rest of pipes out there..saying u want the exhaust pulses to cross as soon as possible so you get "x pipe effect" sooner..and then the gas can travel straight out..smoother

rather than having it travel then cross then come right out

this is as i remember it being explained to me at their shop

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHarris

Anyone know how much power the full gintani exhaust makes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by powertrip

I'm thinking they claim around 25-30hp for header back.

I'm still strongly considering getting the full Gintani system when my M3 arrives. It supposedly makes some of the most power with their reflash and pulley.

powertrip · 06-17-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

I'm still strongly considering getting the full Gintani system when my M3 arrives. It supposedly makes some of the most power with their reflash and pulley.

I just spoke with Alex @ Gintani and he's working on developing an x-pipe that slips on after the primary cats

. I'm getting their axle-back installed next weekend.

John@BMW · 06-19-2009, 09:07 AM

where is the talk about an H pipe set up..........

stylinexpat · 06-19-2009, 10:16 AM

I'm in the market for something that produces good numbers and sound along with good weight savings.

2thdr · 06-19-2009, 11:38 AM

I am sure that Pencil Geek has some sort of device for figuring this out...c'mon PG, don't hold out on us.

06-16-2009, 10:35 PM	#1
powertrip Scared money don't make money. 67 Rep 1,448 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2009 E92 M3 [0.00]	Let's talk X-pipe designs.... So, I've been putting some thought into maximizing the amount of power that my car puts out while retaining the factory cats. I'm wondering how x-pipe design comes into play, and which design makes the most power. Following are a few designs out.... 1) Encore Innovation- Straight piping with sharp angles going into the actual "X" of the pipe. 2) Fabspeed- Stepped piping going into a smooth "X" section. 3) Challenge- Smooth piping going into a smooth "X" section. 4) Gintani- Smooth piping with the "X" section being closer to the stock cat location than any of the others. 5) Active Autowerke- Smooth piping with the "X" section being located near stock location (smooth bends as well). So, which makes better power? Any recommendations? __________________ 2009 E92 M3/DCT/Alpine White/Fox Red/Carbon Leather OE Tuned 402 whp & 303 wtq/Gintani X-pipe/MXP Axle Back/Rogue Pulley/AFE Stage 2/Cosmetics By IND & EAS HUGE THANKS: Gintani, OE Tuning, and EAS Last edited by powertrip; 06-17-2009 at 05:15 PM..
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06-16-2009, 10:48 PM	#2
E93_M3 Second Lieutenant 9 Rep 209 Posts Drives: e93 M3 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: toronto iTrader: (2)	Encore Innovation have very good product and i have their x-pipe right now i am can feel the different, love it!!
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06-16-2009, 10:51 PM	#3
powertrip Scared money don't make money. 67 Rep 1,448 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2009 E92 M3 [0.00]	^^^ Thanks for the opinion, but I'm looking for technical analysis of which "X" design would work best (in theory of course). __________________ 2009 E92 M3/DCT/Alpine White/Fox Red/Carbon Leather OE Tuned 402 whp & 303 wtq/Gintani X-pipe/MXP Axle Back/Rogue Pulley/AFE Stage 2/Cosmetics By IND & EAS HUGE THANKS: Gintani, OE Tuning, and EAS
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06-17-2009, 12:14 AM	#4
ebohon Second Lieutenant 15 Rep 255 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe, 6MT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Anaheim Hills, CA iTrader: (2)	Intersting topic. I suspect that if you get any technical analysis, it will all be biased. All in favor of course of the vendor/fabricator that chooses to chime in. There is obviously differences but at a negligible level and probably greater differences in design for product differentiation and harmonics. If all were the same design... can you say commodity and lower cost? __________________ 2009 M3 : 6MT : Carbon : Silverstone : Fox Red Novilo : Aluminum Trim : Tech Package : iPod : MODS: Performance Spoiler: Clear Reflectors : H&Rs : Escort 9500ix hardwired : Tint : Macht Schnell Filter : RPI Scoops : Rogue Pulley : Fabspeed resonated x-pipe with Remus Race : ESS Tune: TVinMotion
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06-17-2009, 01:56 AM	#6
MrHarris yodog 197 Rep 5,025 Posts Drives: '86 Corolla Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Diamond Bar, Ca iTrader: (5) Garage List 2009 BMW [10.00]	What about RPi? I know their exhaust makes huge gains in torque. __________________ 2009 E92 M3 \| Alpine White \| Black Extended \| Advan RS \| Turner Test Pipes \| Dinan Axle-Back \| OETuning \| Eibach Springs \| UUC SSK \| VRS Front Lip \| VRS Type I Diffuser \| Matte Black \| RPi Scoops \| MS Filter \| Yokohama AD08 \| F1 Pinnacle Special Thanks: Gintani \| OETuning \| eAs
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06-17-2009, 02:05 AM	#7
TheKosherStogie Lieutenant Colonel 342 Rep 1,805 Posts Drives: 08 M3 DCT AW/Red Join Date: May 2009 Location: West Hollywood iTrader: (1)	the guys at gintani explained that they put the "X" closer to engine or headers than the rest of pipes out there..saying u want the exhaust pulses to cross as soon as possible so you get "x pipe effect" sooner..and then the gas can travel straight out..smoother rather than having it travel then cross then come right out this is as i remember it being explained to me at their shop
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06-17-2009, 02:11 AM	#8
MrHarris yodog 197 Rep 5,025 Posts Drives: '86 Corolla Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Diamond Bar, Ca iTrader: (5) Garage List 2009 BMW [10.00]	Anyone know how much power the full gintani exhaust makes? __________________ 2009 E92 M3 \| Alpine White \| Black Extended \| Advan RS \| Turner Test Pipes \| Dinan Axle-Back \| OETuning \| Eibach Springs \| UUC SSK \| VRS Front Lip \| VRS Type I Diffuser \| Matte Black \| RPi Scoops \| MS Filter \| Yokohama AD08 \| F1 Pinnacle Special Thanks: Gintani \| OETuning \| eAs
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06-17-2009, 06:06 AM	#10
J08M3 Major General 285 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	The only thing that could possibly make a difference that might be measurable would be the location of the X. As sammyrusso said the difference would have to do with the timing of the pulses. My feeling (without testing myself) is even X location would be a difference so small you couldn't even measure it accurately on a dyno. __________________
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06-19-2009, 09:07 AM	#13
John@BMW I can't belive this car is a 4 door family sedan. 66 Rep 385 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 sedan, '96 M3 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (1)	where is the talk about an H pipe set up.......... __________________
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06-19-2009, 10:16 AM	#14
stylinexpat Major 415 Rep 1,427 Posts Drives: Join Date: Aug 2008 iTrader: (0)	I'm in the market for something that produces good numbers and sound along with good weight savings.
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06-19-2009, 11:38 AM	#15
2thdr Lieutenant 59 Rep 553 Posts Drives: '18 Macan GTS/'18 GT3/''21 X5M Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta iTrader: (0)	I am sure that Pencil Geek has some sort of device for figuring this out...c'mon PG, don't hold out on us.
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