Motortrend:LF-A versus GT-R

[MMMorish]

That Lex sounds sooo sick!!

[991GT3]

Guibo,


You really need to get your underwear out of that bunch. I tried to calm this down by writing this was all for fun and no one is going to be able to prove anything but you decided not to go down that path.
Since none of us (yes that includes you) have driven or will ever drive an LFA we are all just magazine racing.
The link I posted, to start this thread, clearly shows the car isn't in another realm over the mighty GTR, performance wise. It's reported 'ring time shows it's not in another league, even it's Top Gear track time shows it's not.
So quit with the pompous "game, set, match" nonsense.
The LFA is nice but its not a game changer. And most reviews I have seen are a tad surprised by the price.

[majin ssj eric]

Good God that LFA sounds incredible!

[jeremyc74]

Neither one of these cars really does much for me. There's no denying the performance the GT-R is capable of is astounding for its price, but it just doesn't make me want to run out and buy one.

The Lexus, while impressive, is just simply overpriced, and I'm not sure how anyone can dispute that. At nearly $400k, there are plenty of cars I'd choose over it. They're charging nearly double what it's worth IMO, and then restricting production numbers to make people feel like they're getting something special.

[xbook]

All I can say is, who the fuck spends $400,000 on a LEXUS!!!!

edit: sorry, who the fuck leases a LEXUS for $400,000.

[Small Yellow]

Imo there is a difference between supercars and exotics. Supercars have amazing performance and exotics give you this feeling when you see it/sit in it/drive it.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by HuangYiChao

Imo there is a difference between supercars and exotics. Supercars have amazing performance and exotics give you this feeling when you see it/sit in it/drive it.

I agree. Cars like the GT-R and ZR1 are absolutely supercars, they just do so without also being exotics. People who think exclusivity somehow makes a better performance car make me laugh.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Guibo,

The link I posted to start this thread clearly shows the car isn't in another realm over the mighty GTR performance wise. It's reported 'ring time shows it's not in another league, even it Top Gear track time shows it's not.
So quit with the pompous "game, set, match" nonsense.
The LFA is nice but its not a game changer. And most reviews I have seen are a tad surprised by the price.

Ok, so the fact that "the car isn't in another realm over the mighty GTR performance wise" means it's not worth the money. LOL. Hold on a moment, I think that's the sound of Ferrari saying they'll no longer produce cars like the 599/612, Bentley/Spyker/Rolls-Royce/etc, throwing in the towel. This is like expecting a Murcielago Reventon to be much faster than the GT-R considering its $1.4M price.
It's reported 'Ring time isn't even based on months and months and thousands upon thousands of laps of chasing a lap time with a former F1 driver at the wheel. The fact that a naturally aspirated car with less than 560 hp and no AWD, DCT, or Cup-type tires can set that time should be applauded. And that is the slow version of the car anyway.
So because a car is not a game changer, that means it's overpriced. Haha.
Well, wouldn't most reviews you've read be a tad surprised by the price? Do you think your average motoring journalist has the same sense of value as your average millionaire/billionaire? Lexus did not produce this car to fit a mag journo's budget.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Guibo

Ok, so the fact that "the car isn't in another realm over the mighty GTR performance wise" means it's not worth the money. LOL. Hold on a moment, I think that's the sound of Ferrari saying they'll no longer produce cars like the 599/612, Bentley/Spyker/Rolls-Royce/etc, throwing in the towel..

It is absolutely overpriced....absurdly overpriced. Why in the world would anyone buy this car instead of a Zonda for $50k less? This car is this expensive for no good reason whatsoever. It's not doing anything that the other $300k supercars aren't doing that makes it even remotely worth an additional 25% upcharge.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by Guibo

Ok, so the fact that "the car isn't in another realm over the mighty GTR performance wise" means it's not worth the money. LOL. Hold on a moment, I think that's the sound of Ferrari saying they'll no longer produce cars like the 599/612, Bentley/Spyker/Rolls-Royce/etc, throwing in the towel. This is like expecting a Murcielago Reventon to be much faster than the GT-R considering its $1.4M price.
It's reported 'Ring time isn't even based on months and months and thousands upon thousands of laps of chasing a lap time with a former F1 driver at the wheel. The fact that a naturally aspirated car with less than 560 hp and no AWD, DCT, or Cup-type tires can set that time should be applauded. And that is the slow version of the car anyway.
So because a car is not a game changer, that means it's overpriced. Haha.
Well, wouldn't most reviews you've read be a tad surprised by the price? Do you think your average motoring journalist has the same sense of value as your average millionaire/billionaire? Lexus did not produce this car to fit a mag journo's budget.

So basically you want to quote magazine journalists when it fits your narrative but when they question the price tag you'll discount them and fall back on what a billionaire feels its worth. Sheez.
I'm glad you're coming around to see the car the way I do: a nice car that's a trophy for the mega wealthy.

[ragingclue]

They have no shortage of buyers. Their objective, unlike the GT-R, was not price/performance, but to simply create a car with the "it" factor. They seem to be doing pretty well at that.

We're talking about 20 years down the road, where the LFA will most definitely still have the "it" factor. The biggest enemy to this for the GT-R is, ironically enough, its amazing price point. They'll be driven, modded, tracked, and thrashed as they should be and were meant to be. No one is taking away from how great the GT-R is, nor am I saying people will forget what a great car it is 20 years from now, but in 20 years, I just don't see how anyone could argue that a GT-R will have the same "it" factor as the LFA.

This car is aimed at, and will always fall into the hands of, people who want it for its exclusivity. That, to me, is quite an "it" factor.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

So basically you want to quote magazine journalists when it fits your narrative but when they question the price tag you'll discount them and fall back on what a billionaire feels its worth. Sheez.
I'm am glad you're coming around to see the car the way I do: a nice car that's a trophy for the mega wealthy.

No it's not. Do some homework before spouting off.

Lexus is allocating these cars for lease after an extensive selection process. Bill Gates or any of the ultra-wealthy can't just go out and buy this car... (although some may get one for the marketing spin off). It's only available for lease and only for those that meet strict criteria....financial capability being only one aspect. The cars are meant to be driven and Lexus expects them to be used, not put in garages or treated as an investment.

There are several discussions on the Lexus' boards about prospective candidates and what's involved.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

No it's not. Do some homework before spouting off.

Lexus is allocating these cars for lease after an extensive selection process. Bill Gates or any of the ultra-wealthy can't just go out and buy this car... (although some may get one for the marketing spin off). It's only available for lease and only for those that meet strict criteria....financial capability being only one aspect. The cars are meant to be driven and Lexus expects them to be used, not put in garages or treated as an investment.

There are several discussions on the Lexus' boards about prospective candidates and what's involved.

I can't believe that people are actually buying into this BS marketing ploy. Anyone buying a $400k car IS ultra wealthy, and if you think more than a couple of them are actually going to be out using one of these as a daily driver, or even tracking it more than once or twice a year, you're not living in reality.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I can't believe that people are actually buying into this BS marketing ploy. Anyone buying a $400k car IS ultra wealthy, and if you think more than a couple of them are actually going to be out using one of these as a daily driver, or even tracking it more than once or twice a year, you're not living in reality.

Of course, those LEASING these vehicles is wealthy....that doesn't automatically make them a candidate.

Just one more person blabbing meaningless comments without actually researching and knowing what they're talking about.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Of course, those LEASING these vehicles is wealthy....that doesn't automatically make them a candidate.

Just one more person blabbing meaningless comments without actually researching and knowing what they're talking about.

Watch what happens when they start being delievered to the owners.

They'll see car shows, and parades, and most of them won't be driven 5k miles in a year. Most of the people who are shopping for cars in this price range have plenty of other toys to play with as well, and this car isn't going to be any different than the other exotics they've owned.

Your comments make you sound like an unreasonable Lexus loyalist who won't face reality.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

No it's not. Do some homework before spouting off.

Lexus is allocating these cars for lease after an extensive selection process. Bill Gates or any of the ultra-wealthy can't just go out and buy this car... (although some may get one for the marketing spin off). It's only available for lease and only for those that meet strict criteria....financial capability being only one aspect. The cars are meant to be driven and Lexus expects them to be used, not put in garages or treated as an investment.

There are several discussions on the Lexus' boards about prospective candidates and what's involved.

Are you really that gullible?
Who's going to buy a $400,000 car? And do you really believe anyone buying it is going to use it as a DD?

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Guibo

Ok, so the fact that "the car isn't in another realm over the mighty GTR performance wise" means it's not worth the money. LOL. Hold on a moment, I think that's the sound of Ferrari saying they'll no longer produce cars like the 599/612, Bentley/Spyker/Rolls-Royce/etc, throwing in the towel.

Please? Ferrari throw in the towel?

Ferrari already trumps the LFA with its "entry lever car".


Look at the 458 italia V8 specs compared to the V10 in the LFA:

Ferrari 458 - 4.5-liter V8 570 horsepower at 9,000 rpm and 398 pound-feet of torque at 6,000 rpm.

Lexus LFA - 4.8-liter V10 552 horsepower and 352 pound-feet of torque at 9000 rpm.


There is honestly nothing that the LFA does, that is special. Even for $200,000 is does nothing special.


And to the Toyota Fanboys that keep stating the LFA ring time. The ring time that is "unofficial", the ring time done by a non-production car, the ring time that has been taken down by almost all websites. That time is a joke.



Toyota built a nice car. But I repeat it is not a "game-changer".

[rubber_ducky]

edit. link didn't work

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

It's only fun when intelligent discussion is generated, not some of the BS being typed in here. "The LF-A will be a failure in 20 years based on my opinion as a GT-R fanboy"

I don't see very much intelligent debate in this thread. People comparing the LF-A to the Jaguar XJ220 (two totally different cars), and claiming it will be an immediate failure based on some hypothesis based in the realm of ... nothing. Very immature, and pointless.

Don't let my opinion stop you from participating though. By all means, continue.

Never said it was a failure, hell I don't think the XJ220 was a failure. And I am far from a GTR fanboy.

I will say is a gain, when it is all said in done. The LFA will not go down in supercar history as an icon. It will never have the impact of a car like the the Mclaren F1 had on the supercar world. It can't, it does nothing to change the game.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Please? Ferrari throw in the towel?

Ferrari already trumps the LFA with its "entry lever car".


Look at the 458 italia V8 specs compared to the V10 in the LFA:

Ferrari 458 - 4.5-liter V8 570 horsepower at 9,000 rpm and 398 pound-feet of torque at 6,000 rpm.

Lexus LFA - 4.8-liter V10 552 horsepower and 352 pound-feet of torque at 9000 rpm.


There is honestly nothing that the LFA does, that is special. Even for $200,000 is does nothing special.

Ok so a cheaper, more mainstream car is out there that will out-perform the LFA....

Like has been mentioned before, if you have the money to buy something like this, there's probably a lot more in consideration than the three stats you put up there (HP/TQ/$). At that price range, you're looking at people who may put much greater stock in the exclusivity of the vehicle.

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

It is absolutely overpriced....absurdly overpriced. Why in the world would anyone buy this car instead of a Zonda for $50k less? This car is this expensive for no good reason whatsoever. It's not doing anything that the other $300k supercars aren't doing that makes it even remotely worth an additional 25% upcharge.

anyone who can afford to pay 300k for a sports car can easily pay 400k. This car is for millionaires with and not for 100thousand-aires who have a great income. The extra 50k over the Zonda is nothing for people with that type of income.

[Red Bread]

Didn't we already go through this with the Honda/Acura NSX? At least it was cheaper and lighter than the competition, the only thing Lexus appears to be bringing to this fight is a disconnect with competitive pricing.