Won ebay auction at 60K for E90 M3, BMW of Lincoln refusing to honor

DJPoop · 03-23-2008, 10:58 PM

This thread was linked to another site that I'm a member of, and I never join up on other boards when these types of things are cross-posted, but a few things I read on here made me have to sign up to post this.

First off, to the OP, sorry to hear about this situation, it truly sucks and I feel for ya.

More so though, to all the armchair attorneys, and all the people bashing this moosman guy, I urge you all to do a google search on "unilateral mistake" and the effect that has on voiding a contract. Now, I'm not saying this was 100% a mistake on the dealers part, but I found moosman's argument's compelling enough to post about. Either this is the case of a slimey dealership (and god know's I've had my experience with them) tryng to take advantage of a consumer, or it was some salesman that most likely will be losing his job over a mistake. Unfortunately we don't know which of those situations is the acutal case, but if it is the latter, the dealer can absolutely get out of a contract which they mistakkenly entered into and which the buyer attempted to snap up, knowing the deal looked too good to be true.

EDIT - Disregard the spelling errors, it's late.

eyemdbmw · 03-23-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickc

Just saw the vid..

Apparently "Fil" has bigger problems than this eBay transaction... namely his haircut.

make sure you wait for the moneyshot at the end.

sweet baby jesus!

is that a "Ricky Bobby" reference? if so, that is too funny

moosepoop · 03-23-2008, 11:02 PM

Dooma350
Take this to court if you must. They were trying to get the markup without looking like capitalist jackoffs! Well, it backfired and they look a hell of alot worse then if they would have just listed it for $90k! If it was unintentional on their part and they forgot to put a higher reserve price, then their advertising/marketer/Ebay manager should be fired on top of them selling you the car. For something that seems to be of such great importance to them, seems to have been left in the hands of a fool to put on Ebay.

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:11 PM

Ok, I don't know if you guys have reached the verdict yet, but let me tell you a little about contract law. I wrote an article dedicated to this thread. Please take the time to read it.

http://dailyyeah.com/2008/03/23/law-101ebay-auction/

Now that I visited the auction's page, I realize what I wrote is incorrect: You're not getting the car, because of the following reasons.

#1. It has an auction policy. It fails the acceptance rule to be considered a valid agreement; therefore, it isn't a contract.
#2. It doesn't say "No reserve", and under UCC rules, if it doesn't say "No Reserve" it is assumed it does have one. That would mean buyer can refuse to sell. Does that make sense?

PM me if you have any questions.

zavigm · 03-23-2008, 11:22 PM

Got linked to this from teh OT...

I think they will honor the agreement, solely to save themselves from all the bad publicity. You may even want to send the dealership a link to this thread so they can see how much exposure it's getting. I'm sure they would be seen in a much better light if they did just give it to you at the auction price.

Good luck to you though!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1477764

ideliver · 03-23-2008, 11:23 PM

Copied from the listing. More reasons why the dealer is wrong.

This icon next to the members user ID recognizes them as a qualified PowerSeller. You can feel assured that your transaction will go smoothly and that you are dealing with one who has consistently met the requirements established by eBay.

Terms
Notice to Bidders:
WE WILL NOT SELL ANY NEW BMW OR MERCEDES-BENZ VEHICLE TO ANYONE NEEDING THE VEHICLE EXPORTED OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES. IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE U.S.A. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE THIS VEHICLE. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.
ALL OF OUR PREOWNED INVENTORY IS FOR SALE WORLDWIDE!

All vehicles at The Husker Auto Group are for sale locally. We reserve the right to end the auction early due to a local sale.

DJPoop · 03-23-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyYeah

Ok, I don't know if you guys have reached the verdict yet, but let me tell you a little about contract law. I wrote an article dedicated to this thread. Please take the time to read it.

http://dailyyeah.com/2008/03/23/law-101ebay-auction/

Now that I visited the auction's page, I realize what I wrote is incorrect: You're not getting the car, because of the following reasons.

#1. It has an auction policy. It fails the acceptance rule to be considered a valid agreement; therefore, it isn't a contract.
#2. It doesn't say "No reserve", and under UCC rules, if it doesn't say "No Reserve" it is assumed it does have one. That would mean buyer can refuse to sell. Does that make sense?

PM me if you have any questions.

Dailyyeah, I just read your article. All your points on basic contract law look sound on paper. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure how an online auction plays into traditional "offer" and "acceptance," however, look a few posts up at the one I just posted a few minutes ago. Even if a legally binding contract was reached, the dealer seems to have a pretty good case for it being voidable on the basis of unilateral mistake.

Also, at the end of your article you mentioned something about getting into federal cout based on amount in controversy. That has to be above $75,000, but you can also get into fed court on diversity of citizenship, and since the buyer and the dealer are residents of different states, that is present. Not that you would want this in federal court in the first place anyway though.

TimVFR · 03-23-2008, 11:25 PM

Simple, it was won with a "Buy It Now" price. The "reserve" issue has no relevence.

John · 03-23-2008, 11:30 PM

i'm very sorry to hear this Dooma.

im not surprised to hear this sad story, but its still ridiculous and you deserve the car that price, and you should NOT settle for less.

i myself have been jerked around by dealers before as well, so like everyonen else at M3post has been saying... we're all behind you, and im sure everyone at bimmerpost is supporting you.

goodluck man, keep us updated!

FCTrs4 · 03-23-2008, 11:30 PM

I hope it all works out for you...

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disinterested Observer

Dailyyeah, I just read your article. All your points on basic contract law look sound on paper. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure how an online auction plays into traditional "offer" and "acceptance," however, look a few posts up at the one I just posted a few minutes ago. Even if a legally binding contract was reached, the dealer seems to have a pretty good case for it being voidable on the basis of unilateral mistake.

Also, at the end of your article you mentioned something about getting into federal cout based on amount in controversy. That has to be above $75,000, but you can also get into fed court on diversity of citizenship, and since the buyer and the dealer are residents of different states, that is present. Not that you would want this in federal court in the first place anyway though.

Yeah, I'm almost positive that the guy won't be able to get the car. It doesn't pass the acceptance portion of the agreement. It's clear in the terms that

WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.

I left out part of the Diversity requirement, because it doesn't matter. Because the $75,000 amount hasn't even been reached. You have to satisfy both in order to bring it to Federal court.

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimVFR

Simple, it was won with a "Buy It Now" price. The "reserve" issue has no relevence.

Ok, even if it isn't an auction based sale. Read the terms of acceptance.

WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.

Game over, this isn't a contract;therefore, cannot be taken to court.

kingdaviswaco · 03-23-2008, 11:35 PM

But the dealer accepted the offer, did they not? The fact is, the auction closed with a sale. Congratulations were given to the buyer, he met the reserve requirements laid out by the dealer. I'm no ebay expert, but it seems that the dealer had ample opportunity to establish a reserve price in the system, and they either set one low enough that it was met or they failed to establish one. Otherwise, there would be no sale, and the ebay page in question clearly indicates a sale was made.

Is there something I'm missing here? Can anyone go on ebay and set a secret reserve, revealed to no one and possibly not established until after the sale is made, and expect that to be a valid excuse for not selling a piece of merchandise? It seems like the dealer had ample opportunity to do this on the front side of the sale. He could have even closed the sale one minute before it was due, perhaps, but he chose not to do so.

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:36 PM

Honestly, now that I come to think of it. Why are we all mad here? Are we all angry because this guy didn't get a chance to buy a $60,000 dollar M3? Now he has to pay more; what an outrage.

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdaviswaco

But the dealer accepted the offer, did they not? The fact is, the auction closed with a sale. Congratulations were given to the buyer, he met the reserve requirements laid out by the dealer. I'm no ebay expert, but it seems that the dealer had ample opportunity to establish a reserve price in the system, and they either set one low enough that it was met or they failed to establish one. Otherwise, there would be no sale, and the ebay page in question clearly indicates a sale was made.

Is there something I'm missing here? Can anyone go on ebay and set a secret reserve, revealed to no one and possibly not established until after the sale is made, and expect that to be a valid excuse for not selling a piece of merchandise? It seems like the dealer had ample opportunity to do this on the front side of the sale. He could have even closed the sale one minute before it was due, perhaps, but he chose not to do so.

Read some of the UCC rules. An auction doesn't have to say reserve to have a reserve.

DJPoop · 03-23-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyYeah

Yeah, I'm almost positive that the guy won't be able to get the car. It doesn't pass the acceptance portion of the agreement. It's clear in the terms that

WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.

I left out part of the Diversity requirement, because it doesn't matter. Because the $75,000 amount hasn't even been reached. You have to satisfy both in order to bring it to Federal court.

IMO, their right to cancel a bid would have to be before the auction was over. When the auction ended, that bid became an acceptance of the offer. At least thats the way I see it, and I think a contract was definately reached.

And as far as getting into fed court, you only have to satisfy one requirement, you either get jurisdiction through diversity of citizenship OR reaching the amount in controversy. You don't need to have both.

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disinterested Observer

IMO, their right to cancel a bid would have to be before the auction was over. When the auction ended, that bid became an acceptance of the offer. At least thats the way I see it, and I think a contract was definately reached.

And as far as getting into fed court, you only have to satisfy one requirement, you either get jurisdiction through diversity of citizenship OR reaching the amount in controversy. You don't need to have both.

#1, if they reached acceptance, than the buyer would have agreed that he can't purchase the car: In the acceptance the dealer says they can cancel orders ANY TIME. Therefore, even if it acceptance the dealer can cancel. And if not then the dealer can just not sell, because it isn't a contract.

#2. I'm pretty sure it's called diversity requirementS
Can you show me proof that you only need to follow one?

ybbiz34 · 03-23-2008, 11:41 PM

Did anyone else notice that all of the members who have joined here randomly, and recently, who are arguing FOR the dealership all drive a 318. I think it is a code for them so they know they are on the same team.

They should be BANNED!

And then Contract Law in daily yeah's signature.

This smells like shady business.

botchka · 03-23-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyYeah

Ok, even if it isn't an auction based sale. Read the terms of acceptance.

WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.

Game over, this isn't a contract;therefore, cannot be taken to court.

Seriously, does anyone here actually use eBay? They can cancel bids all day long, but if the auction ends with a bid, that's valid and can't be closed or cancelled.

eBay's policies override whatever *terms* you may put into your auction. You couldn't put something like "buyer agrees to pay me $5000 for shipping" or "winning bidder agrees to let me shag his wife" and hope to have that binding simply because it was in your auction and someone won it.

eclipsisNA · 03-23-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyYeah

Ok, even if it isn't an auction based sale. Read the terms of acceptance.

WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.

Game over, this isn't a contract;therefore, cannot be taken to court.

That's only when the auction is live. Once it's over and a winning bidder has emerged, the seller has to acknowledge that fact and sell the item.

DailyYeah · 03-23-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disinterested Observer

IMO, their right to cancel a bid would have to be before the auction was over. When the auction ended, that bid became an acceptance of the offer. At least thats the way I see it, and I think a contract was definately reached.

And as far as getting into fed court, you only have to satisfy one requirement, you either get jurisdiction through diversity of citizenship OR reaching the amount in controversy. You don't need to have both.

An acceptance, is when the offeree accepts to the terms of an offer, which would mean the dealer can cancel.

imafrk · 03-23-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyYeah

Ok, Now that I visited the auction's page, I realize what I wrote is incorrect: You're not getting the car, because of the following reasons.

#1. It has an auction policy. It fails the acceptance rule to be considered a valid agreement; therefore, it isn't a contract.
#2. It doesn't say "No reserve", and under UCC rules, if it doesn't say "No Reserve" it is assumed it does have one. That would mean buyer can refuse to sell. Does that make sense?

PM me if you have any questions.

huh?

1. Ebay is an 3rd party auction site. It helps unite sellers and buyers to let people buy & sell shit. Both parties agree to abide by certain rules when they sign up. Dude found himself a sweet deal on brand new M3 and won it. Its that simple. This Shitpump of a dealer tried to attract interest with a relatively low starting bid. Only one person bid and won it. Man up and give the guy his ride. Despite the 'apologetic "sorry we made a mistake have a nice day" phone call from the dealership 15 min after auction ended. What kind of business pulls this kind of kindergaden sandbox deals? lol

Bahhaahahahahah

<takes a breath>

Bahahahhhhahahaaa

2. You seriously think that by omitting the words 'no reserve' under UCC rules in the description of an auction this absolve the dealer? lol

This BS I'm reading about the 'honest mistake' is crap! its not like he's paying $10 for a brand new 2008 M3.

03-23-2008, 10:58 PM	#397
DJPoop Private 10 Rep 75 Posts Drives: '18 C63s Coupe Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami iTrader: (0)	This thread was linked to another site that I'm a member of, and I never join up on other boards when these types of things are cross-posted, but a few things I read on here made me have to sign up to post this. First off, to the OP, sorry to hear about this situation, it truly sucks and I feel for ya. More so though, to all the armchair attorneys, and all the people bashing this moosman guy, I urge you all to do a google search on "unilateral mistake" and the effect that has on voiding a contract. Now, I'm not saying this was 100% a mistake on the dealers part, but I found moosman's argument's compelling enough to post about. Either this is the case of a slimey dealership (and god know's I've had my experience with them) tryng to take advantage of a consumer, or it was some salesman that most likely will be losing his job over a mistake. Unfortunately we don't know which of those situations is the acutal case, but if it is the latter, the dealer can absolutely get out of a contract which they mistakkenly entered into and which the buyer attempted to snap up, knowing the deal looked too good to be true. EDIT - Disregard the spelling errors, it's late.
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:02 PM	#399
moosepoop Crazy 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: Yugo Vtec Type-R Si Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	Dooma350 Take this to court if you must. They were trying to get the markup without looking like capitalist jackoffs! Well, it backfired and they look a hell of alot worse then if they would have just listed it for $90k! If it was unintentional on their part and they forgot to put a higher reserve price, then their advertising/marketer/Ebay manager should be fired on top of them selling you the car. For something that seems to be of such great importance to them, seems to have been left in the hands of a fool to put on Ebay.
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:11 PM	#400
DailyYeah New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: BMW318is Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin iTrader: (0)	Ok, I don't know if you guys have reached the verdict yet, but let me tell you a little about contract law. I wrote an article dedicated to this thread. Please take the time to read it. http://dailyyeah.com/2008/03/23/law-101ebay-auction/ Now that I visited the auction's page, I realize what I wrote is incorrect: You're not getting the car, because of the following reasons. #1. It has an auction policy. It fails the acceptance rule to be considered a valid agreement; therefore, it isn't a contract. #2. It doesn't say "No reserve", and under UCC rules, if it doesn't say "No Reserve" it is assumed it does have one. That would mean buyer can refuse to sell. Does that make sense? PM me if you have any questions.
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:22 PM	#401
zavigm New Member 0 Rep 5 Posts Drives: STi Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: The First State iTrader: (0)	Got linked to this from teh OT... I think they will honor the agreement, solely to save themselves from all the bad publicity. You may even want to send the dealership a link to this thread so they can see how much exposure it's getting. I'm sure they would be seen in a much better light if they did just give it to you at the auction price. Good luck to you though! http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1477764
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:23 PM	#402
ideliver Major 238 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: E60 M5, E71 X6M, E46 M3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: At the gas station iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW E46 M3 'vert [0.00] 2008 BMW M5 [0.00] 2011 BMW E92 [0.00] 2012 BMW X6M [0.00] 2003 E46 M3 [0.00]	Copied from the listing. More reasons why the dealer is wrong. This icon next to the members user ID recognizes them as a qualified PowerSeller. You can feel assured that your transaction will go smoothly and that you are dealing with one who has consistently met the requirements established by eBay. Terms Notice to Bidders: WE WILL NOT SELL ANY NEW BMW OR MERCEDES-BENZ VEHICLE TO ANYONE NEEDING THE VEHICLE EXPORTED OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES. IF YOU DO NOT LIVE IN THE U.S.A. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE THIS VEHICLE. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL ANY BIDS AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON. ALL OF OUR PREOWNED INVENTORY IS FOR SALE WORLDWIDE! All vehicles at The Husker Auto Group are for sale locally. We reserve the right to end the auction early due to a local sale. __________________ Current: 2006 E46 M3 'vert 6-sp 2008 E60 M5, 2011 E92 328 6-sp, 2011 E70 N55, 2012 E71 X6M
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:25 PM	#404
TimVFR Registered 0 Rep 4 Posts Drives: Dodge Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hawaii iTrader: (0)	Simple, it was won with a "Buy It Now" price. The "reserve" issue has no relevence.
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:30 PM	#405
John Captain 55 Rep 960 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (1)	i'm very sorry to hear this Dooma. im not surprised to hear this sad story, but its still ridiculous and you deserve the car that price, and you should NOT settle for less. i myself have been jerked around by dealers before as well, so like everyonen else at M3post has been saying... we're all behind you, and im sure everyone at bimmerpost is supporting you. goodluck man, keep us updated! __________________ E90post Project 325i www.creativeautoworks.com James@creativeautoworks.com 858.279.8900
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:30 PM	#406
FCTrs4 Private First Class 39 Rep 158 Posts Drives: '11 e90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Florida iTrader: (1)	I hope it all works out for you...
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:35 PM	#409
kingdaviswaco New Member 0 Rep 20 Posts Drives: Geo Metro Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	Contract Law But the dealer accepted the offer, did they not? The fact is, the auction closed with a sale. Congratulations were given to the buyer, he met the reserve requirements laid out by the dealer. I'm no ebay expert, but it seems that the dealer had ample opportunity to establish a reserve price in the system, and they either set one low enough that it was met or they failed to establish one. Otherwise, there would be no sale, and the ebay page in question clearly indicates a sale was made. Is there something I'm missing here? Can anyone go on ebay and set a secret reserve, revealed to no one and possibly not established until after the sale is made, and expect that to be a valid excuse for not selling a piece of merchandise? It seems like the dealer had ample opportunity to do this on the front side of the sale. He could have even closed the sale one minute before it was due, perhaps, but he chose not to do so.
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:36 PM	#410
DailyYeah New Member 0 Rep 19 Posts Drives: BMW318is Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin iTrader: (0)	Honestly, now that I come to think of it. Why are we all mad here? Are we all angry because this guy didn't get a chance to buy a $60,000 dollar M3? Now he has to pay more; what an outrage.
	Appreciate 0

03-23-2008, 11:41 PM	#414
ybbiz34 Brigadier General 670 Rep 4,959 Posts Drives: 2023 330i M Sport Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	Did anyone else notice that all of the members who have joined here randomly, and recently, who are arguing FOR the dealership all drive a 318. I think it is a code for them so they know they are on the same team. They should be BANNED! And then Contract Law in daily yeah's signature. This smells like shady business.
	Appreciate 0

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