Official Thoughts on E92 M3 CSL Thread

[replicat]

Hey everybody there hasn't been alot of action around here and I know that alot of us in here are kind of worried about the weight of the upcoming M3, and those of us that live in the states dream of a CSL coming here.

So I want to get your overall opinions on whether or not you guys think if they make a CSL it will be offerered here in the US. If you could list reasons backing your ideas that would be great too.

Also feel free to discuss any related material on here. For example the new CSL's weight, etc...

Pete.

[Last E92 M3]

I really want to know why it can't make it here.
E46 M3 CSL wasn't even that expensive compare to regular M3.
I blame DOT.

Though, new 2008 Skyline GTR is making it to US for the first time (unless you import it by yourself R32~R34).
It is very possible to get E92 M3 CSL from US IMO.
At least I am hoping to get one in future if it's available.

[JEllis]

I dont think it will come to the states and here is why.

The CSL is a limited production model that can be easily sold in Europe but needs to meet US regulations in order to be sold here. Since the CSL is not just an engine tune but in fact has different body panels (CF roof etc) and materials (CF and Aluminum) comprising its basic structure then BMW would probably have to have the CSL re-certified requireing more money than the model is worth to the US market. Plus, who knows that the CSL was or will be built to even meet US spec crash tests etc....

Jason

[replicat]

Great post. I never thought about more money to make it...

[JEllis]

Not sure if that was a crack or not but I am not saying it will cost more money to make it but a lot more money to certify it for sale in the US. I doubt BMW will do that for a very limited run model due to the unit price that would be required to justify the costs......

Anyways, you asked the question and the answer to why BMW wont do a given thing is because generally there is no benefit to BMW. If building a CSL and selling it in the US would make money for BMW then I am sure they would do it. However, I already explained why they wont. Thats of course unless BMW is willing to build a lot more CSL's for the US maket (to justify costs) than they did for the Euro market...

Jason

[replicat]

Lol, no cracks. I was serious.

[Norsk]

AS for the weight of the E90/92 M3; I would not worry too too much and here are some reasons.

BMW seems to introduce certain items in a limited spec edition at the end of a series and test market perception and client reactions to this things, such as:

1. Adjustable Bolsters on E46 M3 --> now in sports pack on E90
2. Carbon Fiber/Composite Panels, trunk and roof on E46 M3 CSL --> Front Fenders on E92 are composite + the same for Bumper and front fenders of the new X5 (no seem)
3. BFD (Brake Force Distribution) Ligths on E46 -> Now on all E90
4. Corona rings
5. Swiveling headlights & high beam Xenons
6. Better DSC&DTC on E46 M3 -> Now on E90
7. + more, but no time to list for now

One more thing to keep in mind, when BMW introduced the last Generation E46 M3, they were not in Formula 1. When they introduced the New M5 V10, they had just had about three years in F1 as an Engine supplier to WilliamsF1.

Now they are entering their second year as a full fledged F1 Team... so what does this have to do with the new M3?

This summer as the two North American F1 races, BMW had a lot of demos where the public could come and see the difference between components of F1 and other BMW race cars vs regular road car components, such as:

• Brake Discs
• Brake Pads
• Wheels
• Car Panels (ie: Trunk or Fender)
• Pistons
• Crankshaft
• Gear Box
• Cylinder Block
• +more

Let's just say that some of those components where 1/3 if not 1/4 of the weight of the regular road car component & lasted longer ... was mind blowing.

So, I would not worry too much about your future M3; the power to weight ratio is a top priority for them!

If they talk about it in the intro of the E92 ... they sure are not going to miss it with the new M3

Sorry for the long post, but hope it's been useful

[e36jakeo]

Originally Posted by Norsk

AS for the weight of the E90/92 M3; I would not worry too too much and here are some reasons.

BMW seems to introduce certain items in a limited spec edition at the end of a series and test market perception and client reactions to this things, such as:

1. Adjustable Bolsters on E46 M3 --> now in sports pack on E90
2. Carbon Fiber/Composite Panels, trunk and roof on E46 M3 CSL --> Front Fenders on E92 are composite + the same for Bumper and front fenders of the new X5 (no seem)
3. BFD (Brake Force Distribution) Ligths on E46 -> Now on all E90
4. Corona rings
5. Swiveling headlights & high beam Xenons
6. Better DSC&DTC on E46 M3 -> Now on E90
7. + more, but no time to list for now

One more thing to keep in mind, when BMW introduced the last Generation E46 M3, they were not in Formula 1. When they introduced the New M5 V10, they had just had about three years in F1 as an Engine supplier to WilliamsF1.

Now they are entering their second year as a full fledged F1 Team... so what does this have to do with the new M3?

This summer as the two North American F1 races, BMW had a lot of demos where the public could come and see the difference between components of F1 and other BMW race cars vs regular road car components, such as:

• Brake Discs
• Brake Pads
• Wheels
• Car Panels (ie: Trunk or Fender)
• Pistons
• Crankshaft
• Gear Box
• Cylinder Block
• +more

Let's just say that some of those components where 1/3 if not 1/4 of the weight of the regular road car component & lasted longer ... was mind blowing.

So, I would not worry too much about your future M3; the power to weight ratio is a top priority for them!

If they talk about it in the intro of the E92 ... they sure are not going to miss it with the new M3

Sorry for the long post, but hope it's been useful

Great info Norsk!

With the Z06 (a freagin' Chevy!) coming through with all kinds of crazy lightweight technology (AND delivering with an amazing 3130 lb curb weight) and the lightweight and racey Porsche GT3 (3130 lbs) gaining popularity and recognition (many considering it better than the more expensive Turbo) I think the door is WIDE open for BMW to bring the CSL to the US and showcase their best technology.

If they go all out they could keep the weight at 3300 lbs or less, plus an engine tweak to 450+ HP and perfectly tuned (read neutral) handling, it would rival ANYTHING from an all-around performance standpoint. The CSL would act as a halo for the normal M3, getting even more folks excited about the M cars. If a small company like Porsche is able to bring to the US the low-volume GT3 and GT2 I see no reason BMW won't bring the CSL.

I don't want to think about what they will want to charge, though . . .

[replicat]

^^ I sure hope so man...its kind of a deal breaker for me...If it weighs in at more than 3600lbs Its no go...its '06 ZCP SMG + AA S2 SS + lightweight materials = 3200lb 440whp E46 monstar...

If its under 3600 and more like 3400 then It will do.

[Last E92 M3]

Originally Posted by Norsk

AS for the weight of the E90/92 M3; I would not worry too too much and here are some reasons.

BMW seems to introduce certain items in a limited spec edition at the end of a series and test market perception and client reactions to this things, such as:

1. Adjustable Bolsters on E46 M3 --> now in sports pack on E90
2. Carbon Fiber/Composite Panels, trunk and roof on E46 M3 CSL --> Front Fenders on E92 are composite + the same for Bumper and front fenders of the new X5 (no seem)
3. BFD (Brake Force Distribution) Ligths on E46 -> Now on all E90
4. Corona rings
5. Swiveling headlights & high beam Xenons
6. Better DSC&DTC on E46 M3 -> Now on E90
7. + more, but no time to list for now

One more thing to keep in mind, when BMW introduced the last Generation E46 M3, they were not in Formula 1. When they introduced the New M5 V10, they had just had about three years in F1 as an Engine supplier to WilliamsF1.

Now they are entering their second year as a full fledged F1 Team... so what does this have to do with the new M3?

This summer as the two North American F1 races, BMW had a lot of demos where the public could come and see the difference between components of F1 and other BMW race cars vs regular road car components, such as:

• Brake Discs
• Brake Pads
• Wheels
• Car Panels (ie: Trunk or Fender)
• Pistons
• Crankshaft
• Gear Box
• Cylinder Block
• +more

Let's just say that some of those components where 1/3 if not 1/4 of the weight of the regular road car component & lasted longer ... was mind blowing.

So, I would not worry too much about your future M3; the power to weight ratio is a top priority for them!

If they talk about it in the intro of the E92 ... they sure are not going to miss it with the new M3

Sorry for the long post, but hope it's been useful

Interesting info.
I am counting on BMW/German engineering like they did on M coupe!

[BMW MotorSport]

Originally Posted by replicat

^^ I sure hope so man...its kind of a deal breaker for me...If it weighs in at more than 3600lbs Its no go...its '06 ZCP SMG + AA S2 SS + lightweight materials = 3200lb 440whp E46 monstar...

If its under 3600 and more like 3400 then It will do.

Wow that 06' ZCP + AA sc with 440whp sounds like an awesome idea. How much does the new 335I coupe weigh in at? I think they will come in at a very close rate 100 plus or minus, no? I'm guessing the new M3 could come in at 3500lbs.

[replicat]

Hmm, I believe the ZCP weighs a bit under 3400lbs and the 335i is over 3500lbs.

Either way, I hope that the CSL comes to the states. Either to buy, or to beat.

[samfisch]

On the same note as the CSL (M-Division modified, official) what about a M3 GTR?

Back in 2002-2003 Schnitzer Racing needed a more powerful M3 for use in races, especially on the Nurburgring. So they made a M3 with a V8 (like in the new 550i (E60))

What I might be getting at is what if they took the V10 from the M5 and M6 put it into the E92 M3 and have themselves a modern GTR. The old GTR has 400lb/ft at stratospheric revs and about 50 more horses than the stock M3.

CSL is unbelievably awesome but GTR still wins any day!

[monsta]

Originally Posted by samfisch

On the same note as the CSL (M-Division modified, official) what about a M3 GTR?

Back in 2002-2003 Schnitzer Racing needed a more powerful M3 for use in races, especially on the Nurburgring. So they made a M3 with a V8 (like in the new 550i (E60))

What I might be getting at is what if they took the V10 from the M5 and M6 put it into the E92 M3 and have themselves a modern GTR. The old GTR has 400lb/ft at stratospheric revs and about 50 more horses than the stock M3.

CSL is unbelievably awesome but GTR still wins any day!

Hartge did this already well sort of b/c they put it into a 3 series check out the link here...:rocks:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=73019

Bill

[The CSL]

A small company like Porsche?

The same Porsche that now owns the majority stake in VW and therefore Audi, Bugatti, Bentley, Seat, Skoda and Lamborghini?

[JK42]

Originally Posted by samfisch

On the same note as the CSL (M-Division modified, official) what about a M3 GTR?

Back in 2002-2003 Schnitzer Racing needed a more powerful M3 for use in races, especially on the Nurburgring. So they made a M3 with a V8 (like in the new 550i (E60))

What I might be getting at is what if they took the V10 from the M5 and M6 put it into the E92 M3 and have themselves a modern GTR. The old GTR has 400lb/ft at stratospheric revs and about 50 more horses than the stock M3.

CSL is unbelievably awesome but GTR still wins any day!

Actually the E46 M3 GTR first came out in 2001 for Schnitzer Motorsport to compete in the ALMS (American Le Mans) endurance racing. It had a 4.0-liter fire-breathing V8 with 450bhp and 480Nm (355 lb-ft) of torque, with 8000 rpm redline. 10 very exclusive road-going street legal versions were built and sold at $220.000 a piece because the ALMS rules required for the cars to be available as street versions as well. The street legal 2001 M3 GTR had a 4.0 liter V8 as well, but tamed, with the street version engine torque at 365Nm/270 lb-ft and horsepower at 350bhp. It still weighted only 1350kg (slightly under exactly 3000lbs), which still made it the fiercest street M3 ever, easily beating the M3 CSL which came out 2 years later in the spring of 2003 only on the European market. The story of the M3 GTR ended for a while and at least in the ALMS because Porsche complained about it since the two M3's in the race won and came second practically on every race they took part in, which resulted in the changed rules that now required over 100+ production cars to be made available rather than just the previous 10. BMW did not wish to proceed with this as the GTR was more expensive to produce (small special quantities) than what it cost. Tech specs of the Street M3 GTR:

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m3gtr.asp

Best regards,

Jussi