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07-17-2010, 02:31 AM | #23 | ||
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07-17-2010, 09:50 PM | #24 |
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Hmmm, this has me curious. There's nothing broken. There's really no weight to the sensor at all, so I doubt that was throwing anything off. And like I said, when reinstalled the OEM pads and plugged the sensors back in after the weekend was over, no warning lights. In fact, I was getting two warnings; 1) pads, and 2) tire pressures (since I was running track wheel/tire setup with no TPMS).
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07-17-2010, 10:27 PM | #25 | |
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07-17-2010, 10:45 PM | #26 |
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On the subject of intermediate brake pads ... I was at Summit Point today. For the first time I used Ferodo DS2500's and Bridgestone RE-11's on the track.
I bedded the pads on the way to the track this morning, or at least I thought I did. I probably didn't spend enough time on bedding, because two laps into the first session, the pads started smelling and the pedal became mushy. Fortunately, since those were my first two laps, I was taking it easy. After that, the pads quickly improved and performed well for most of the rest of the day. In my last session, I decided to push harder in the main straight, and the pads became smelly after braking for turn 1. But the pedal remained firm and, except for the incident in the very first session, I was never really surprised (which happened a few times with the stock pads). The DS2500's have less initial bite than the stock pads, but better modulation, especially when you get close to ABS engagement. In terms of friction, I don't think they are superior to the stock pads. They probably won't shorten your braking distances, if that's what you're after. But they do take heat better than the stock pads, give you more warning signs of fading, and offer better modulation. Also, they leave less deposits on the rotors. I don't have brake shudder tonight, which I always get with the stock pads. The DS2500's work well in the street too. They occasionally squealed at very low speeds before bedding, but never to the point of startling pedestrians. Overall, I think they're pretty good dual-duty pads if you bed them properly, if you don't expect too much in terms of friction and braking distance, and if you know how to manage your brakes. Concerning the tires, the RE-11's never became greasy, even though it was very hot today. In similar conditions last year, the stock PS2's became very greasy. Thanks to the stiffer sidewall, the RE-11's don't roll under as much as the PS2's. They are communicative and squeal just as much, or maybe even more, than the PS2's. In terms of pure grip, though, they are not in the same class as R-compounds. They're still street tires. I didn't time myself today, but I don't think my lap times improved a lot compared to last year. Overall I think this is a pretty good dual-duty set-up for someone who doesn't want to swap pads before and after each event, and who doesn't want to have a second set of wheels and tires for the track.
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07-17-2010, 11:43 PM | #27 | |
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07-18-2010, 03:33 AM | #28 | |
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The reality is that if you aren't seeing them fade, you aren't going that fast. After I got faster, I tried the HP+ again and I could get them to fade at will. (this is running not fast times, like 2:08s at Thunderhill with street tires and about 330whp/3150 lbs) In a heavier car, you are really just asking for an off track excursion. I'd rather run on stock pads than HP+, since even if you drastically overheat stock pads, they stay relatively healthy once they've cooled. If that doesn't convince you... Check out the pic I have of what happens when you overheat an HP+. (the pad material disintegrates and you get dirty.) The Cool Carbons are the closest I've seen to a true compromise pad and it's going to mean driving slower than real race pads. Nothing you can do about it, there just aren't pads that work at the 1200+ degree range, while being rotor friendly, dust free and squeal free for street use. I really like the PFC 01, the Pagid RS14 (although they wear very quickly if you overheat them) and the Hawk HT14/HT10 combo, although they tend to be harder on rotors. |
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07-18-2010, 09:59 AM | #29 | |
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07-18-2010, 10:09 AM | #30 | |
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Learning the skills to manage the brakes that you have on the car should be part of Advanced driver training as much as learning proper lines.If you drive like a "Rock Ape"and stand on the brakes every brake cycle on track you will have problems.Suprise!Would I like better braking?Of course I would, but in the meantime I will live with what I have and not have any real problems by managing their use within the brakes systems capabilities. |
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07-18-2010, 12:08 PM | #31 |
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I have been following this fairly closely, as I am still considering "retracking" my E92 on a somewhat regular basis, which means, wheels, R Comps, and brakes. I run at least one event a month, and sometimes two. On my current track car, 3620 lbs with me and half a tank of gas, a 525i, modified E36 M3 270 hp,and set up for the track, I run Hawk Gold HT 10 Race Pads, front and back on a M5 brake system. I have super stopping power, no fade, and out braking most cars in the advance and instructor classes I run in, and in three years, have had absolutely no problems what so ever. I drive the car to/from the track, 140 miles each way, an occasional small amount of local driving, and never change the pads. Yea, they squeak, but so what. I would probably try the HT10s (or simular) on the E92, except for Lucid's experience with them. Thus, jury is still out on what to do with the E92.
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07-19-2010, 11:07 AM | #32 |
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Check out Carbotech
I have the same concerns, starting to bring my car to HPDE's but I do not want to deal the melted brake pads or even a crash from loss of brakes. After doing a lot of reading it seems that there is no such thing as an effective track pad that you can live with on the street-too much noise, poor cold braking performance and excessive rotor wear. So I went with Carbotech pads http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds.asp which I will install this weekend along with Ate Blue fluid. I will just take the pads off in a few weeks when I am done with HPDE's for this year. Good luck.
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07-19-2010, 12:46 PM | #33 | |
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It sounds like you're going to be doing some street driving with them. Just be ready, they squeal like pigs.
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07-21-2010, 10:17 PM | #35 |
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Again, this is what is dangerous about them. When they puke, they puke and there is very little warning, you just don't slow down. It really sucks and gets your dirty at best and is dangerous at worst. I really would recommend against these pads on track.
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07-22-2010, 06:29 AM | #36 |
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I'm using Performance Friction "Z" rated pads and am quite happy with them after 5 track events. Pad wear on the fronts and rears is at less than half, rotors in good shape, some squeal for a week or so after an event but pretty quite after that. Big improvement over stock pads (I used up half a set of those in one event) fading is much improved but still occurs (to a lesser degree). My next upgrade will be PF rotors on the fronts.
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07-22-2010, 06:47 AM | #37 |
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I'm switching from Cool Carbon to Pagids.
Cool carbons performed great but would start to fade after a few laps. Of course it's 100F and a on very fast with some brake heavy turns. Cool carbons provide plenty of warning prior to losing complete effectiveness. A cool down between sessions 45min to 1 hour sessions was sufficient to get braking performance back. I hope the Pagids will provide a bit more time, otherwise I'll go back to the $200/set Cool Carbons.
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07-22-2010, 07:00 AM | #38 |
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I am quite confused about the dangerous part?Yes they are not a full out track pad so they do fade when used hard for a few laps.When they do get hot & fade they give you lots of warning and you back off a bit and they come right back.What is dangerous about a pad that gives lots of warning & keeps working
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07-22-2010, 08:11 AM | #39 | |
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07-22-2010, 07:12 PM | #40 | |
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07-22-2010, 07:56 PM | #41 |
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07-23-2010, 09:25 PM | #42 | |
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As to managing your brakes, agreed - there is a big difference between being an rock ape and driving very very fast. But, I will say this, I refuse to get into a student's car who thinks they have upgraded brakes with HP+ or HPS pads. My life is on the line, so my choice. Has happened more than once at the PCA club events I work at. Here is the difference. I used to run HP+ pads as street pads in my E46M with stock calipers. I would swap them out for DTC70s or SpecVRs for the track. My beeding procedure for the HP+ could easily and accidentally get them to fade - about 3 very hard stops from 80mph, and once they started to fade, I needed to use the transmission to slow the car. It was nearly impossible to get the DTC70 to do anything but get better (or even bed for that matter).... |
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