BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-04-2014, 08:15 PM   #89
kscarrol
Brigadier General
kscarrol's Avatar
United_States
8752
Rep
4,098
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

elm, any update? Has the update to 240e solved your problem? My car is at the dealer now and they are replacing the what the SA called the fuel tank vent valve which I assume is the same as the fuel tank breather valve that gpitts had replaced...
__________________
2021 X3 M40i
1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual
BMWCCA # 327475
Appreciate 0
      11-12-2014, 08:02 PM   #90
NashvegasR
Lieutenant
United_States
171
Rep
532
Posts

Drives: 2016 M4 F83
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (4)

Great thread

I'm having this same problem and posted a thread about it. I think I might try to direct the dealer at the fuel purge valve that worked for a few folks.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...44&hg=13&fg=15

But -- anyone know -- where on earth is this valve on the car? I assume in the rear. I guess I"m asking if this is a "drop the fuel tank blahblahblah" (not something I would tackle) or is this a "remove the carpet and its right there item" (totally up my alley)
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 01:57 AM   #91
grantmax
Lieutenant Colonel
139
Rep
1,637
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: LA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk2meg00se
240E doesn't fix it.
Correct. 240E is not a fix. I've posted more detailed info in part similar threads.

My car has seen three dealerships and shop foremen. Still tries to choke out after a fill-up. It's almost time to consider this working as intended.
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 05:21 AM   #92
kscarrol
Brigadier General
kscarrol's Avatar
United_States
8752
Rep
4,098
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Fuel tank breather valve was the cure for me. No rough idle/stalling after fill up since it was replaced...
__________________
2021 X3 M40i
1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual
BMWCCA # 327475
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 03:07 PM   #93
5soko
Brigadier General
5soko's Avatar
332
Rep
4,632
Posts

Drives: M5
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (4)

Ive given up on the fix for my S85, as have many V10 owners.. Be awesome if the real fix is the fuel tank breather, i will be looking into it on my car.
__________________
Current: E63S AMG 4matic RENNtech || M5 Evolve..Eventuri || F10 LCI 535i MHD
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 03:28 PM   #94
thekurgan
Bad Lieutenant
thekurgan's Avatar
United_States
232
Rep
3,517
Posts

Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscarrol View Post
Fuel tank breather valve was the cure for me. No rough idle/stalling after fill up since it was replaced...
What was involved in this replacement if I may ask?
__________________
02 E39M5 | TiAg/Schwartz | Tubi Rumore | Ultimate Ti Pedals | E60 SSK | Jim Blanton 3.45 40/100% | Coby Alcantara | StrongStrut STB
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 04:15 PM   #95
modkrazy
Lieutenant Colonel
modkrazy's Avatar
169
Rep
1,531
Posts

Drives: m3
Join Date: May 2014
Location: tx

iTrader: (1)

I've had a slightly bouncy rev line when cold and right after a fill-up, but never such big dips.

Try a different gas station?
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 04:35 PM   #96
kscarrol
Brigadier General
kscarrol's Avatar
United_States
8752
Rep
4,098
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
What was involved in this replacement if I may ask?
Good question but I'll have to plead ignorance! Was a warranty repair so dropped it off in the morning and picked up in the afternoon. Sorry!
__________________
2021 X3 M40i
1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual
BMWCCA # 327475
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 04:41 PM   #97
thekurgan
Bad Lieutenant
thekurgan's Avatar
United_States
232
Rep
3,517
Posts

Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscarrol View Post
Good question but I'll have to plead ignorance! Was a warranty repair so dropped it off in the morning and picked up in the afternoon. Sorry!
Nah, no sweat. I'll look at the parts list and I'm betting it's mostly labor.
__________________
02 E39M5 | TiAg/Schwartz | Tubi Rumore | Ultimate Ti Pedals | E60 SSK | Jim Blanton 3.45 40/100% | Coby Alcantara | StrongStrut STB
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 04:50 PM   #98
kscarrol
Brigadier General
kscarrol's Avatar
United_States
8752
Rep
4,098
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
Nah, no sweat. I'll look at the parts list and I'm betting it's mostly labor.
Probably right! I have the actual service paperwork at my office but my SA printed a summary of my car's records as I went out of warranty in October. It is a brief description but it says "fuel tank vent valve (carbon canister) permanent malfunction". Not sure if that's part of the fuel pump or where it's located. Realoem.com shows an activated carbon filter as part #1 in this diagram...

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...19&hg=16&fg=10
__________________
2021 X3 M40i
1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual
BMWCCA # 327475
Appreciate 0
      11-13-2014, 05:05 PM   #99
thekurgan
Bad Lieutenant
thekurgan's Avatar
United_States
232
Rep
3,517
Posts

Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscarrol View Post
Probably right! I have the actual service paperwork at my office but my SA printed a summary of my car's records as I went out of warranty in October. It is a brief description but it says "fuel tank vent valve (carbon canister) permanent malfunction". Not sure if that's part of the fuel pump or where it's located. Realoem.com shows an activated carbon filter as part #1 in this diagram...

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...19&hg=16&fg=10
Yeah that looks like a PITA to R&R. I wonder why they are failing.
__________________
02 E39M5 | TiAg/Schwartz | Tubi Rumore | Ultimate Ti Pedals | E60 SSK | Jim Blanton 3.45 40/100% | Coby Alcantara | StrongStrut STB
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2015, 11:25 AM   #100
RogEphedra
Darkhorse v1.1
RogEphedra's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: 2010 Jet Black M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

It is the fuel tank vent valve

I had the same problem as shown in the video in post #20 by kscarrol. However, his did it for a few seconds then leveled-off for a while, then did it again, then leveled-off, etc. Mine was a continuous fluctuation until I drove away. It only stalled once on me in my driveway, but was very close to stalling several times.

Tried to post a .mov video of mine, but couldn't get it to work.

Anyway, as kscarrol and gpitts have said, it appears to be the "fuel tank vent valve" aka "fuel tank breather valve". I took it to the dealer. I showed them 2 videos I took. They were looking for codes even though I told them there was no “service engine soon” light, so no codes stored. After a couple more correspondences with them throughout the day, I could tell they were not going to be able to diagnose it in a timely manner. So I pointed them to this thread, and pushed them in the direction of the fuel tank vent valve. They agreed, and asked for approval to replace. They replaced the fuel tank vent valve, along with the “charcoal canister” aka “activated charcoal filter” to maybe make a little more money. If they tell you the Johnson Rod needs replacing, you say “sure, of course, Johnson Rod”. What the hell do I know? I just want the damn fluctuating idle to stop already. After having these replaced, there have been no more repeats of the erratic fluctuating idle.

So for the guy reading this thread and wondering what the problem is with his car and the erratic fluctuating idle, just like I did, and seeing a bunch of different possibilities brought up, I’m going to say definitively that it is the fuel tank vent valve. Point your mechanic/dealer in this direction. Tell them you really believe it’s the fuel tank vent valve and you want them to replace that.

It’s not the gas, as I tried different gases -- Chevron, Shell, Texaco, always 93 octane, and still had the problem. It’s not the cold weather, although parts seem to really go south when the weather gets cold. But weather isn’t the reason for the fluctuating idle. It’s not waiting for your car to warm up. I let the car warm up plenty, and still had the problem. It’s the fuel tank vent valve.

If you can’t get this fixed immediately, here are some ways to mitigate this:

• Don’t fill up the tank, go to about 7/8 tank.
• Don’t let it sit idle after getting gas.
• If you have to let it sit idle after getting gas (sitting at traffic light), and you are worried about stalling or the embarrassing fluctuating idle sound, shift to neutral and give it a little gas as soon as the idle starts to fluctuate. Just give it the slightest amount of steady gas to keep it from potentially stalling or creating the embarrassing sound. When the light changes, shift back to 1st gear and go.
• If you don’t want to do the above, just shut the car off as soon as the idle starts to fluctuate. When the light turns green, start it back up, shift to 1st gear and go.
• If you don’t want to do any of the above, just know that the car could stall and be prepared to deal with it.

Thanks to kscarrol and gpitts for pointing me in the direction of the fuel tank vent valve.
Appreciate 0
      01-05-2015, 09:48 PM   #101
gpitts
Captain
gpitts's Avatar
245
Rep
684
Posts

Drives: 2023 G07 X7 40i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogEphedra View Post
I had the same problem as shown in the video in post #20 by kscarrol. However, his did it for a few seconds then leveled-off for a while, then did it again, then leveled-off, etc. Mine was a continuous fluctuation until I drove away. It only stalled once on me in my driveway, but was very close to stalling several times.

Tried to post a .mov video of mine, but couldn't get it to work.

Anyway, as kscarrol and gpitts have said, it appears to be the "fuel tank vent valve" aka "fuel tank breather valve". I took it to the dealer. I showed them 2 videos I took. They were looking for codes even though I told them there was no “service engine soon” light, so no codes stored. After a couple more correspondences with them throughout the day, I could tell they were not going to be able to diagnose it in a timely manner. So I pointed them to this thread, and pushed them in the direction of the fuel tank vent valve. They agreed, and asked for approval to replace. They replaced the fuel tank vent valve, along with the “charcoal canister” aka “activated charcoal filter” to maybe make a little more money. If they tell you the Johnson Rod needs replacing, you say “sure, of course, Johnson Rod”. What the hell do I know? I just want the damn fluctuating idle to stop already. After having these replaced, there have been no more repeats of the erratic fluctuating idle.

So for the guy reading this thread and wondering what the problem is with his car and the erratic fluctuating idle, just like I did, and seeing a bunch of different possibilities brought up, I’m going to say definitively that it is the fuel tank vent valve. Point your mechanic/dealer in this direction. Tell them you really believe it’s the fuel tank vent valve and you want them to replace that.

It’s not the gas, as I tried different gases -- Chevron, Shell, Texaco, always 93 octane, and still had the problem. It’s not the cold weather, although parts seem to really go south when the weather gets cold. But weather isn’t the reason for the fluctuating idle. It’s not waiting for your car to warm up. I let the car warm up plenty, and still had the problem. It’s the fuel tank vent valve.

If you can’t get this fixed immediately, here are some ways to mitigate this:

• Don’t fill up the tank, go to about 7/8 tank.
• Don’t let it sit idle after getting gas.
• If you have to let it sit idle after getting gas (sitting at traffic light), and you are worried about stalling or the embarrassing fluctuating idle sound, shift to neutral and give it a little gas as soon as the idle starts to fluctuate. Just give it the slightest amount of steady gas to keep it from potentially stalling or creating the embarrassing sound. When the light changes, shift back to 1st gear and go.
• If you don’t want to do the above, just shut the car off as soon as the idle starts to fluctuate. When the light turns green, start it back up, shift to 1st gear and go.
• If you don’t want to do any of the above, just know that the car could stall and be prepared to deal with it.

Thanks to kscarrol and gpitts for pointing me in the direction of the fuel tank vent valve.
Clearly the Johnson Rod was the solution.
__________________
2019 G05 X5 40i, Phytonic Blue, Black Extended Merino Leather Interior
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 11:06 PM   #102
DMA
Major
DMA's Avatar
United_States
230
Rep
1,341
Posts

Drives: 16 F80 M3~09 E92M3~03 E46M3
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Coconut Creek, Fl

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for this thread I am having the same issues not as drastic drops but it is getting worse.

Will go the route of replacing Fuel Purge Valve seems like an easy DIY based on this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...98&postcount=4

Looks like good price on ECS:http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/13907838281/ES35640/

$70.

Out of Warranty and 3rd Party Warranty deductible would be more than the part. Ill create a DIY and post it up probably will be in the next couple weeks.
__________________

IG:@DMAGARAGE - 2003 E46 M3 | 2009 E92 M3 | 2016 F80 M3
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2015, 08:03 AM   #103
elm3
///M Fan
elm3's Avatar
United_States
366
Rep
2,157
Posts

Drives: '09 E92 M3 IB/'17 f85 X5M LBB
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Canton, GA.

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2017 BMW / X5M  [9.00]
2009 E92 M3  [10.00]
2004 Yamaha R1  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscarrol View Post
elm, any update? Has the update to 240e solved your problem? My car is at the dealer now and they are replacing the what the SA called the fuel tank vent valve which I assume is the same as the fuel tank breather valve that gpitts had replaced...
So far so good. I haven't had the problem yet. The engine runs differently at start up too when I changed the software. Knocks on wood.
__________________
'09 E92 ///M3 Interlagos Blue,6MT,Silver Novillo Leather,CF Trim,Premium Package,Technology Package,Cold Weather Package,Premium Sound,19"Wheels,Moonroof-Toy/'17 X5M, Long Beach Blue, Executive Package,Technology Package, Lighting Package, Driver Assist, Full Mughello Red Interior, 21" wheels-Toy/'14 535i with M Sport and 19" wheels-Daily
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 01:21 AM   #104
woody888
Private First Class
54
Rep
195
Posts

Drives: E92 & F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

I think I have the same problem.

it's like this??

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1069991











Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 06:16 AM   #105
kscarrol
Brigadier General
kscarrol's Avatar
United_States
8752
Rep
4,098
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Yes, looks very similar to what I experienced before having the fuel tank breather valve replaced...
__________________
2021 X3 M40i
1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual
BMWCCA # 327475
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 08:45 AM   #106
gpitts
Captain
gpitts's Avatar
245
Rep
684
Posts

Drives: 2023 G07 X7 40i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody888 View Post
I think I have the same problem.

it's like this??

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1069991
Looks like what I experienced as well...
__________________
2019 G05 X5 40i, Phytonic Blue, Black Extended Merino Leather Interior
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 03:15 PM   #107
woody888
Private First Class
54
Rep
195
Posts

Drives: E92 & F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

So, It need to replace the fuel tank breather valve will improve this issue?

Forgive me my question, because I went back the dealer many time. They still could not fix my car problem .

My car is still having Erratic Idle...

not only after Fill-Up.

When normal idle it also Erratic Idle

someone tell me, Maybe is fuel tank vent valve or vacuum problem..
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 03:45 PM   #108
gpitts
Captain
gpitts's Avatar
245
Rep
684
Posts

Drives: 2023 G07 X7 40i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody888 View Post
So, It need to replace the fuel tank breather valve will improve this issue?

Forgive me my question, because I went back the dealer many time. They still could not fix my car problem .

My car is still having Erratic Idle...

not only after Fill-Up.

When normal idle it also Erratic Idle

someone tell me, Maybe is fuel tank vent valve or vacuum problem..
If you are having issues beyond post-fill-up, then our issues are different. They may root-cause to the same solution, but they may not. Anything beyond this would just be a guess on my part.
__________________
2019 G05 X5 40i, Phytonic Blue, Black Extended Merino Leather Interior
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 04:30 PM   #109
kscarrol
Brigadier General
kscarrol's Avatar
United_States
8752
Rep
4,098
Posts

Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Greenville, SC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpitts View Post
If you are having issues beyond post-fill-up, then our issues are different. They may root-cause to the same solution, but they may not. Anything beyond this would just be a guess on my part.
I will say that I had this idle mostly after fill-up but on more than one occasion it happened with as little as 1/4 tank of gas. Show the dealer this thread and have them replace the breather valve...
__________________
2021 X3 M40i
1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual
BMWCCA # 327475
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 09:11 PM   #110
RogEphedra
Darkhorse v1.1
RogEphedra's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: 2010 Jet Black M3 Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
I will say that I had this idle mostly after fill-up but on more than one occasion it happened with as little as 1/4 tank of gas. Show the dealer this thread and have them replace the breather valve...
I agree 100% with kscarrol here, if the dealer can't ID the problem, show this thread to your service advisor and tell him you strongly suspect the breather valve. The idle issue happened at different fuel levels for me too.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST