ESS VT2-650 Engine Blowout/Bearing Failure at 20k miles

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by w00tw00t

wow sounds like more and more supercharged m3s are beginning to pop!

It wouldn't matter if it's supercharger or not. I think we've read enough cases where it's just BMW's bearing failure that causes it. Not all cars will have this issue but enough do. Adding more hp to something that's already wearing out prematurely is just going to speed up the process.

If I had known, I would have had the engine pulled out earlier to have the coated bearings installed.

[BIGW0RM]

I'm sorry OP. But the last think you guys should be telling him or anyone else for this matter is to commit fraud.

[Robmaster]

Originally Posted by mdosu

well OP said he will be returning it to stock...but just saying, he shouldn't show up at the shop with the ESS kit on the block, they'll see it and then spit their Sprite out when asked for warranty work.

did you really think BMW wouldn't find out that the car was supercharged?

if you go to BMW with a blown engine and you want a new one, they will totally check your ECU etc. and they will find out that somethings wrong.

[spdy330]

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

[BMW] will try hard to skip paying for a new engine, the second they find evidence of a supercharger they have their reason not to cover you under warranty

And quite rightly.

[aus]

Originally Posted by US///M3

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615

Looks like we got two more cases to be added on the registry.

Added to the list.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Wow, that sucks. Sorry to hear that.

Seriously doubt it has anything to do with the SC, we've seen NA motors that had a rod bearing failure.

It will be tricky getting it fixed under warranty to say the least. BMW will look very closely on a big ticket item like that, and they will try hard to skip paying for a new engine, the second they find evidence of a supercharger they have their reason not to cover you under warranty. Doesn't matter if the SC played a role in the engine failure or not. They'll access the shadow memory and that's it...

I have to disagree, I know of a local car getting a complete new engine and the kit was removed. BMW was not aware of anything.

[bimdo]

i looked at ess's site,and it says the 650 supercharger kit includes and requires high performance replacemant rod bearings-
http://www.esstuning.com/products/E9...er-System.html

do you know if your car had them? sorry this happened to you.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Doubt it... and I'm pretty sure you would've known about that upgrade.




Of course if BMW doesn't suspect anything it is possible. But you are on very thin ice when you do that. You not only run the risk of getting your warranty denied, but you could be liable for fraud.

I think the best course of action is to be upfront with BMW and see what happens.

I completely agree, but at the same time wouldn't you call bmw not owning up to bad bearings in some engines to save money fraud and dishonesty as well>?

[chris s]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Doubt it... and I'm pretty sure you would've known about that upgrade.




Of course if BMW doesn't suspect anything it is possible. But you are on very thin ice when you do that. You not only run the risk of getting your warranty denied, but you could be liable for fraud.

I think the best course of action is to be upfront with BMW and see what happens.

Especially after plastering it all over a well known BMW forum. Best chance would have been to quietly go to BMW with your issue and not draw all this attention to your situation.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by chris s

Especially after plastering it all over a well known BMW forum. Best chance would have been to quietly go to BMW with your issue and not draw all this attention to your situation.

+1 would have been best to post after the fact or not at all...

[FogCityM3]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

You not only run the risk of getting your warranty denied, but you could be liable for fraud.

Seems draconian practically speaking. What would be the damages if found "liable" for fraud other than getting warranty denied? The risk of a countersuit (for bad bearings) for BMW far outweighs any suit trying to extract a nominal amount from one person (if even that). Would think that any "fraud" would only be remedied by warranty denial from BMW's perspective.

[baba louey]

I think if one views the warranty as an insurance policy, then trying to make a claim under false pretenses seems fraudish. That warranty is not free. We pay for it somewhere in our purchase price.

[signes]

Are you sure this is a rod not main bearing failure?

[AirbusPilot]

Read the fine print of your warranty. With GM, even a "tune" nullifies the 5yr/100k warranty. This isn't a case where the Mag/moss aftermarket part exemption could apply (aftermarket replacement parts do not automatically nullify a warranty).

Could be a rod bearing, or a failed piston, who knows.

[FogCityM3]

It is an insurance policy. Like any insurance policy, a breach of performance of an agreement on part of one party, in this case the vehicle owner (modding engine esp supercharger) results in denial of the claim. That's the remedy for what people like to keep referring to here as "fraud" or "fraudish".

Originally Posted by baba louey

I think if one views the warranty as an insurance policy, then trying to make a claim under false pretenses seems fraudish. That warranty is not free. We pay for it somewhere in our purchase price.

[FogCityM3]

Agreed. In this case the warranty would be denied and end of story. No fraud claims, no lawsuit, no BMW going after you, etc.

In a perverse way, if BMW actually believed the rod bearings were an issue/defect (and they would not disclose this to the public if in their mind the issue is in 'insuffient numbers') you may be surprised on what may actually get covered if escalated beyond the dealership level. Even the threat of discovery of an issue where there is sufficient evidence could be used as ammunition by other parties not runing S/C's and having issues with stock engines beyond the warranty period. With large corporations is much more than the corporation vs "one guy who put on a supercharger" individual battle. If they're smart about this stuff, they would take this bigger picture into account in their decision making.

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I'm not saying BMW would go after you, most likely they'll just laugh and just deny warranty. OP would have no chance to sue for bad bearings after running a SC.... don't kid yourself.

A new motor is $20K, and probably $5-10K to get it installed, BMW will do everything to wiggle themselves out of it, any evidence of modding will give them all the ammo they need.

[Brooklyn Mark]

I just recently upgraded to the 650 kit from 600.

I did not get the bearing upgrade that ESS is now including in the new kits.

Engine is toast, here is a photo from ACM

[s65e90]

looks like the car kicked a rod out of the block? Is anything salvageable?

[Tony B]

You stick on a supercharger, up the power by 50% (and its not exactly a mildly tuned engine in the first place) and people wonder why you have bearing problems?

And what is with the comments about non-S/C engines being prone to bearing failure?

This has to be one of the most reliable M engines ever made...

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by Tony B

You stick on a supercharger, up the power by 50% (and its not exactly a mildly tuned engine in the first place) and people wonder why you have bearing problems?

And what is with the comments about non-S/C engines being prone to bearing failure?

This has to be one of the most reliable M engines ever made...

Do some reading; apparently some N/A stock cars have had spun bearings. People now all think they're doomed

Remember folks, this forum is a VERY smal sliver of M3 population and no one comes onto a forum stating, "hey my car runs great!", it's always only the negative things. That being said, I still don't think this warrants any kind of concern ala S54 and e46 m3 bearing issues.

And yes, I do believe a SC sped up or was def a contributing factor to a failure. Anyone who says otherwise is straight foolish. You're creating much greated cylinder pressures in positive displacement. this car was never intended being a High compression motor for boost.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

F@ck! That photo is brutal!

Yeah, i feel bad for that shop floor. I can't stand oil stains on my garage floor.