easy upgrades for dual purpose dd and occational track day?

[dcstep]

I've gone with the Dinan camber plates and spring set, 18x10" APEX ARC-8 wheels, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec 275/35/18 tires in a square set up. I mainly do autocross, but if I were going to do tracks, then I'd get some StopTec brakes or equivalent BBK.

I've done some other things, but camber plates are key, along with good tires. Depending on your track(s) and your driving style, brakes may or may not be an issue.

Have fun.

Dave

[dizzyj]

dumb question about camber plates. Do you set the camber for track days, then put it back for daily driving? how difficult is that?

I like the dinan option, cause my m3 is a cpo and has a 6 year warranty.

[dizzyj]

man, and I looked at the diy brake vents, and while Im a good diyer, I dont think Id tackle that on my own.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by Brainofjjj

I understand why people go to a square setup but honestly i think staggered feels better. I'm running a Hankook RS3 265 width tire right now on my track wheels and the front feels significant heavier than my ZCP setup. I can't imagine running the same model tire in a 275. To each his own though.

A lot of the feel comes from the negative camber and toe-in that you run,a s well as your driving style. Many of us that trail-brake like the square set up because it allows more loading onto the front. The closer your camber is to stock, the more you'll like staggard, because it'll give a quicker turn-in bite with stock suspension settings.

I run 275/35-18s square and love the ability to brake deeper into the corners.

Dave

[Brainofjjj]

Originally Posted by dcstep

A lot of the feel comes from the negative camber and toe-in that you run,a s well as your driving style. Many of us that trail-brake like the square set up because it allows more loading onto the front. The closer your camber is to stock, the more you'll like staggard, because it'll give a quicker turn-in bite with stock suspension settings.

I run 275/35-18s square and love the ability to brake deeper into the corners.

Dave

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for offering that perspective.

[ShadeD1]

I'm running at TWS with stock rotors, Motul, and PFC 06 pads with no issues or fading.

Originally Posted by dizzyj

Thanks for the input. I'd like to be doing more track days than 2-3 a year, one of the reasons I was thinink of doing minor upgrades.

The track I have been to is a relativly short, curvy track. Top speed has been ~110, so not a lot of heavy breaking. I'm wanting to go do TWS which is a much faster track, so I think thats where the pads come into play.

Seems like brake fluid and SS lines are almost a no brainier. I cant see how that would adversely effect anything on the street.

do Ferrodo 2500 fit oem calipers/roters?

Also, if I were to consider getting a spare set of wheels, any suggestions to a relatively inexpensive set? Id like to stick with 18" it almost seems like I would do best to find a set of oem 18"s on this site.

Thanks again.
dj

[dizzyj]

one option no one mentioned that I am seriously considering is just purchasing a miata for track days. seriously considering this, with the eventual goal of slamming in an ls1 into it.

I love my m3, and do want to take it on the track, but I think I want to track more often then I want to track with the m3. That make any sense?

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by dizzyj

one option no one mentioned that I am seriously considering is just purchasing a miata for track days. seriously considering this, with the eventual goal of slamming in an ls1 into it.

I love my m3, and do want to take it on the track, but I think I want to track more often then I want to track with the m3. That make any sense?

When you consider the wear and tear, this makes a lot of sense. The more track days per year, the more attractive a spec racer becomes. As much fun as the M3 is, it's not competitive in any class unless it's a full race class with the interior stripped, full race suspension, etc. and it's no longer a DD. If you're serious about racing, then something like a Spec Miata makes tons of sense. If you don't know, or just want to have a little fun, then work on your M3.

I autocross my own M3 and experience very little extra wear and tear, then I go to Skip Barber or BMW for their track schools to drive their cars and not worry about maintenance.

Dave

[dcstep]

I've got the APEX 18x10" 275/35-18 square setup on my dual purpose 2009 M3 6MT and feel like it's a great improvement in handling over the stock 19" set up. However, YMMV depending on how you turn in. I trail-brake, so having the extra meat up front is a big plus on turn in. If you complete your braking before turn-in, which many do and that's what most beginners are taught, then the turn-in may not feel as crisp and responsive. Steady-state, bigger is always better, but you have to get into the curve first.

Also, I run with DSC off for competition. When I occasionally drive aggresively on the street, I feel the DSC getting confused and grabbing some inside rear brake at the wrong times. It's not enough to upset the car, but it IS annoying and might lead to premature brake wear on the track, if you leave DSC on. In normal DD I don't notice it.

Dave

[dizzyj]

if I go the track wheel route thats what I would like to get. (apex square setup), but the wife has said that im spending too much money racing

also, I dont have NAV on my m3, so I dont have mdm mode. So its dsc on, or dsc off. I pretty much always drive with dsc off, except for when its raining.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by dcstep

Also, I run with DSC off for competition. When I occasionally drive aggresively on the street, I feel the DSC getting confused and grabbing some inside rear brake at the wrong times. It's not enough to upset the car, but it IS annoying and might lead to premature brake wear on the track, if you leave DSC on. In normal DD I don't notice it.

Dave

Do you feel this with MDM?

[Malakas]

Originally Posted by dizzyj

if I go the track wheel route thats what I would like to get. (apex square setup), but the wife has said that im spending too much money racing

also, I dont have NAV on my m3, so I dont have mdm mode. So its dsc on, or dsc off. I pretty much always drive with dsc off, except for when its raining.

FWIW, I had to "hold" my "M" button to get the MDM mode to appear. I dont have Nav either.

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by persian54

Do you feel this with MDM?

Yes, whenever the DSC is on. I guess the computer is expecting slightly bigger tires on back and thinks there's something wrong a little too soon. My car has the old MDM, a ZCP may have slightly different settings that negate this problem.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by ShadeD1

I'm running at TWS with stock rotors, Motul, and PFC 06 pads with no issues or fading.

(Almost) same here (stock rotors, Motul, R4S pads, stainless steel brake lines) and no issues or fading either. My car is not stopping at shorter distance like a BBK would, but throughout the all sessions on HPDE's, no fading. I can confidently get on the brake all day. And, no issues on doing DD w/ this setup.

OP, as for the tires, AD08 is probably better track tires, but for DD and occassional HPDE duties, I went with PSS. Almost as good as AD08 on the track, but much more quieter & smoother on the road.

Also, had alignment done (negative camber, toe adjustment, etc) as much as it can be done without going w/ camber plates. Seem alright for what I want to get out of HPDE's.

[dizzyj]

Did another track day today. Man do I love this car. I would like to see how 275's on the front handles understear

[dizzyj]

Originally Posted by Malakas

FWIW, I had to "hold" my "M" button to get the MDM mode to appear. I dont have Nav either.

Do you have a 2011+ car ? I don't even have an M button

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by dcstep

I've got the APEX 18x10" 275/35-18 square setup on my dual purpose 2009 M3 6MT and feel like it's a great improvement in handling over the stock 19" set up. However, YMMV depending on how you turn in. I trail-brake, so having the extra meat up front is a big plus on turn in. If you complete your braking before turn-in, which many do and that's what most beginners are taught, then the turn-in may not feel as crisp and responsive. Steady-state, bigger is always better, but you have to get into the curve first.

Also, I run with DSC off for competition. When I occasionally drive aggresively on the street, I feel the DSC getting confused and grabbing some inside rear brake at the wrong times. It's not enough to upset the car, but it IS annoying and might lead to premature brake wear on the track, if you leave DSC on. In normal DD I don't notice it.

Dave

I had wondered about this. Makes total sense to me. Stability control should in part be looking at individual relative wheel speed to sense a slip condition at a particular corner. So at baseline or steady-state it should expect the 0.5" difference in overall diameter front-to-back. A 275/35-18 square setup will make the rear wheels appear to be rotating too quickly relative to the fronts (at steady state they'll be rotating at the same speed as the fronts, but the computer expects the rears to be bigger and thus rotating slightly slower than the fronts). Therefore the DSC computer should intervene at a much lower threshold with a square setup by braking individual wheels, likely at inappropriate/inopportune times. Some have referred to this in earlier threads, but when I also mentioned it in a previous thread, many accused this thought process of being total BS.

Glad to see this theory makes sense to someone else...

[dcstep]

Originally Posted by paradocs98

I had wondered about this. Makes total sense to me. Stability control should in part be looking at individual relative wheel speed to sense a slip condition at a particular corner. So at baseline or steady-state it should expect the 0.5" difference in overall diameter front-to-back. A 275/35-18 square setup will make the rear wheels appear to be rotating too quickly relative to the fronts (at steady state they'll be rotating at the same speed as the fronts, but the computer expects the rears to be bigger and thus rotating slightly slower than the fronts). Therefore the DSC computer should intervene at a much lower threshold with a square setup by braking individual wheels, likely at inappropriate/inopportune times. Some have referred to this in earlier threads, but when I also mentioned it in a previous thread, many accused this thought process of being total BS.

Glad to see this theory makes sense to someone else...

It's not BS. It's very real. I'm not sure what causes it, but measurements other than what the computer expects makes lots of sense to me.

I've got an autocross coming up August 13th. I'll run a practice lap with the DSC on and drive a little under 100% to confirm the behaviour. I'll explore the edges and report what happens. I KNOW that I felt this on the steet, but an AX course will be a better place to explore the edges.

Dave

[paradocs98]

Sounds good. Report back!

[saeedg48]

depends on what your budget is.

1. start off by getting the michelin pilot super sports. imo tires are the most important.
for those people out there that i see running crappy tires on the M3 or any M car for that matter shame on you.

2. for brakes if you're willing to spend go with the best and get brembos.

3. for a power mod i'd go with a primary cat delete + tune.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by saeedg48

depends on what your budget is.

1. start off by getting the michelin pilot super sports. imo tires are the most important.
for those people out there that i see running crappy tires on the M3 or any M car for that matter shame on you.

2. for brakes if you're willing to spend go with the best and get brembos.

3. for a power mod i'd go with a primary cat delete + tune.

The last thing you'd need to really do for a track car is to add power to it

for the track, AD08s are better, but PSS are still great

you can do brake line fluid pads in you don't want to go all out with a BBK