Autobild Test: M3 vs S5: The Beaty and the Beast!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Bullshit. BMW has no policy whatsoever against this. Individual dealerships are free to allow a test drive or not if they choose. Find one that does and drive the car. It's that simple.

Although I do not usually, I think I side with Juzef on this one. Most stealerships (granted I am in So. Cal.) are not keen about letting someone "off the street" test drive any M car let alone test drive it hard. That almost surely relax a bit if you had bought a car there before or showed up driving a nice P-car or something.

Most of us will likely have to face the same thing Juzef mentioned. A decision to buy or not to buy the car WITHOUT the chance to really drive one hard. Great reasons to be open minded and read everything you can before hand. At least this seems like something we all agree on.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Although I do not usually I think I side with Juzef on this one.

The point is though, that no such rule exists from BMW. They do not care what happens to the cars once they leave the factory.

Most stealerships (granted I am in So. Cal.) are not keen about letting someone "off the street" test drive any M car let alone test drive it hard.

I won't dispute that either way. All I can say is that there are dealerships that let you test drive the car. I know this first-hand. Therefore, there is no excuse for forming a biased opinion prior to a test-drive. There is especially no excuse for doing so, and then proceeding to scatter it repeatedly about the entire forum like a monkey flinging its poo.

[Jason]

In the future, please report any trolling or posts designed to incite arguments or insults such as this:

Fairies should focus on the car and not me.

Rather than responding and letting the thread spiral into back-and-forth jabs, we will deal with the offending post(s) appropriately. Thanks.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Jason

In the future, please report any trolling or posts designed to incite arguments or insults such as this:

Rather than responding and letting the thread spiral into back-and-forth jabs, we will deal with the offending post(s) appropriately. Thanks.

Thanks Jason.

Let's get this thread back on track...

[2002 Tii]

The best way to test drive a limited production car is to call the dealer and arrange an appointment. If they don't accomodate you just move on to a dealer that does.

[lucid]

The main issue with test driving the M3 within 3-6 months of its release might simply be availiability. I assume every single car coming into a dealership would have already been sold--including the dealer's so-called demo car.

[2002 Tii]

Agreed, therefore patience is a virtue. I have deposit down on the car but I will not buy it before I drive it! Let the die hards jump in there and grab the first ones. I'll take my time and let the dealer know of how the new C63 has improved and the S5 is much cheaper or the RS5 will be the baddest beast in town..... even if I have every intention of buying the bimmer and i hope most other people will do the same. I imagine most of us work too hard to let emotions rule a big purchases.

[lucid]

Also, there are other ways to drive the car. One can take a driving class where they use M3s. That would obviously be costly, but I've been wanting to take one for a long time anyway. Like you are saying, after the hype dies down, if the dealer thinks you are serious, you should be able to get a ride. I suppose one should be able to rent one after rental companies manage to get their hands on some, too.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by Jason

In the future, please report any trolling or posts designed to incite arguments or insults such as this:



Rather than responding and letting the thread spiral into back-and-forth jabs, we will deal with the offending post(s) appropriately. Thanks.

Sorry about that Jason.

[MI6]

Originally Posted by 2002 Tii

Agreed, therefore patience is a virtue. I have deposit down on the car but I will not buy it before I drive it! Let the die hards jump in there and grab the first ones. I'll take my time and let the dealer know of how the new C63 has improved and the S5 is much cheaper or the RS5 will be the baddest beast in town..... even if I have every intention of buying the bimmer and i hope most other people will do the same. I imagine most of us work too hard to let emotions rule a big purchases.

I agree- the S5 looks really hot and at 61k w/all options it will also be a little better priced, but we'll see. I mean the "M" just has this sexiness about it and a throaty growl that seems hard to beat.

I'm having 2nd thoughts on Fox Red though- latest pics show it to be very orange, almost like Auburn from the E60 which I do not like. I may go for Black and use Fox Red for the door trim only to give the interior just a little color.....

[Stahlgrau]

I'm deeply saddened to see Juzef get the boot.

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by MI6

I agree- the S5 looks really hot and at 61k w/all options it will also be a little better priced, but we'll see. I mean the "M" just has this sexiness about it and a throaty growl that seems hard to beat.

I'm having 2nd thoughts on Fox Red though- latest pics show it to be very orange, almost like Auburn from the E60 which I do not like. I may go for Black and use Fox Red for the door trim only to give the interior just a little color.....

The S5 is actually only 55-56 with every option (in 6spd manual form), it has a $50,500 base price. I hadn't really been considering it given that I thought the price would be more but as of finding out the pricing, the S5 just moved up quite a bit on my list.

-Adam

[ruff]

Originally Posted by southlight

Your last paragraph is nothing short of impudent. I think if somebody says A is superior to B referring whatever I can also expect him to explain why. You're not willing to do so, you're only saying "Audi is superior", "all the others are catching up"...all that without trying to prove, just stating. If somebody is brave enough to question that, he's biased. C'mon you can't be serious on that. So please, do me a favour, stop fanboy tagging and start discussing on a technical base. You know nothing about me and my beer glasses (nice image BTW), so don't act like you would...

Best regards, south

South,

Well, how about if I discuss facts. Is that good enough for you?

Fact #1: Audi all wheel drive system works in concert with a 420 hp powerplant and a sports suspension.

Fact #2 BMW doesn't have an all wheel drive system that works in concert with a sports suspension or as high a performance powerplant as Audi's offering.

What objective auto enthusiasts would deduce from the two above stated facts that BMW builds a comparable all drive system to Audi? I think even the most ardent Audi haters would concede one to Audi in this area. I mean, come on South, do you hate Audi so much that you can't ever give even the tiniest props to their all wheel drive system, the RS4 or even the driving critics favorite, the R8. Never, ever? Even BMW stealerships are willing tip their cap occasionally to competing manufactures.

Any other BMW fans want to jump on South's BMW loving bandwagon in regards to the AWD issue?...please chime in. The two BMW fans who have already posted, didn't happen to be on your side of the issue.

Based on these posts and your posting history, one could safely deduce that you have a strong BMW bias. South, why all the effort to hide your obvious bias? Are we not among our fellow BMW loving friends? Hey, I respect those who stick up for their beliefs if they will just admit them. Now on to Frankfurt.....

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by lucid

The main issue with test driving the M3 within 3-6 months of its release might simply be availiability. I assume every single car coming into a dealership would have already been sold--including the dealer's so-called demo car.

A fair point. I am not sure how it works with the "demo cars" in the US. For example, with the recent E93 debut, every dealership got the same two cars - a Montego 335i and a Black 328i. This is similar to every dealership getting a red and black M3 in the UK. But I am not sure how the M3 situation works in the US. Dealerships can likely get their first cars ordered the way they want so that they will just have them built to the specifications of the people who are first on their waitlists. Does anyone know for sure?

Also, I would think that if someone is really serious on here, a fellow member would be nice enough to give a drive. I would offer that if I knew a forum member in my area was legitimate and serious.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Smoltz

The S5 is actually only 55-56 with every option (in 6spd manual form), it has a $50,500 base price. I hadn't really been considering it given that I thought the price would be more but as of finding out the pricing, the S5 just moved up quite a bit on my list.

-Adam

Seems odd. Every option on the S5 only raises the price $5k?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Seems odd. Every option on the S5 only raises the price $5k?

Must come relatively loaded like the RS4?

[Epacy]

Doesn't appear so, according to the press release.

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Doesn't appear so, according to the press release.

Press Release is here:
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_3425.shtml

Base Price: $50,500
Tiptronic $1,300
Navigation $2,390
Upgraded Audio $850
Audi Side Assist $500
Technology Package $1700

Add all of that up and a fully loaded 6MT car is $55940 and a fully loaded 6AT car is $57,240.

-adam

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Smoltz

Press Release is here:
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publi...cle_3425.shtml

Base Price: $50,500
Tiptronic $1,300
Navigation $2,390
Upgraded Audio $850
Audi Side Assist $500
Technology Package $1700

Add all of that up and a fully loaded 6MT car is $55940 and a fully loaded 6AT car is $57,240.

-adam

Selective quoting at it's finest.

You forgot destination charges of $775, a $2,900 S line Sport package, and a $1,850 Convenience package. All that from the very link you provided.

Total = $62,765

[southlight]

Originally Posted by ruff

South,

Well, how about if I discuss facts. Is that good enough for you?

Fact #1: Audi all wheel drive system works in concert with a 420 hp powerplant and a sports suspension.

Fact #2 BMW doesn't have an all wheel drive system that works in concert with a sports suspension or as high a performance powerplant as Audi's offering.

What objective auto enthusiasts would deduce from the two above stated facts that BMW builds a comparable all drive system to Audi? I think even the most ardent Audi haters would concede one to Audi in this area. I mean, come on South, do you hate Audi so much that you can't ever give even the tiniest props to their all wheel drive system, the RS4 or even the driving critics favorite, the R8. Never, ever? Even BMW stealerships are willing tip their cap occasionally to competing manufactures.

So we're back at this point, where you responded to my post (which stated the same as your Fact1) claiming Audi is superior technolgical wise referring AWD. Your Fact #2 isn't a fact as long as you're not able to prove it. The fact that BMW doesn't offer a AWD sports car doesn't necessarily mean that BMW's AWD is not working with a sports suspension or a "peformance powerplant." As I said already Audi doesn't have an alternative to offer AWD - Do you want to drive a 420HP FWD car? BMW does have the RWD like Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari. So no need for an AWD on sports cars...
So I'm still waiting for you're explanation on the technological superiority of Audi's AWD. So my point is not, whether Audi's AWD is superior or not. My point is that somebody has to prove it (or at least try it) if he claims so...
One more: Do you think you're able to post one single reply without using "bias" or a synonym of that?

Best regards, south
[the one all the other BMW fanboys have failed]

[2002 Tii]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Selective quoting at it's finest.

You forgot destination charges of $775, a $2,900 S line Sport package, and a $1,850 Convenience package. All that from the very link you provided.

Total = $62,765

The S line is for A5 only........
An S5 with navigation, B&O sound system and Destination charges is out the door for less than 55K.

[MI6]

Originally Posted by 2002 Tii

The S line is for A5 only........
An S5 with navigation, B&O sound system and Destination charges is out the door for less than 55K.

Yes, subtract that S-line package as it's already an S5 and that would be the price- quite attractive really.

But who knows- I will reserve judgement until I see the S5 in person. Nice thing is that it will be here by November- won't have to wait until March or April like we do for the E92 "M"......