gruppe M intake or Dinan intake?

[SPEED & TECH MOTORING]

does anyone know which one is worth getting?
I don't know so much about the Gruppe M intake, but their Carbon Fiber looks hot.

[blackbeast535]

Just installed the Dinan and very pleased with it. As most people will tell you similar gains are to be found with the drop in filter. The carbon fiber is nice eye candy!

[Ateam]

The stock is already a complete CAI. Drop in filter growls and had an unbelievable sound. NO use for an intake on this car. Plenty of cars there is a use but this one came with an intake that is absolutely perfect design and uses a HUGE cone filter for stock so you can stuff a huge high flow filter in.

Dinan makes the tube bigger and charges 1000 bucks if you want to throw away 1k than go dinan. If you want to throw away 2 k than go gruppe m. If you want to spend 90 bucks for the same performance go drop-in

[DBH]

An after market drop-in filter will gain you a few HP. Other intake stuff is just good looking eye candy as stock intake has three intake points and moves as much air as the engine (and filter) can take.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by SPEED & TECH MOTORING

does anyone know which one is worth getting?
I don't know so much about the Gruppe M intake, but their Carbon Fiber looks hot.

Neither is worth getting as neither really provides any gains over a drop-in with the stock airbox. It is purely for show, and in that regard the Gruppe M is a work of art, but it is big $$$$ too.

So.....if cost is no object, get the Gruppe M. If cost is a factor for you then don't bother with anything.

[Mahzari]

Originally Posted by VVG

So.....if cost is no object, get the Gruppe M. If cost is a factor for you then don't bother with anything.

And we have a winner

[tom @ eas]

Here's a dyno sheet from another thread we started a while ago:



2011 BMW M3 (Alpine White)
Dynorun 21: Baseline
Dynorun 30: Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, Stock Exhaust
Dynorun 33: Macht Schnell S65 Performance Underdrive Pulleys, OEM Intake, Stock Exhaust
Dynorun 36: Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, Macht Schnell S65 Performance Underdrive Pulleys, Stock Exhaust
Dynorun 52: Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, Macht Schnell S65 Performance Underdrive Pulleys, Challenge Race+ X-Pipe (Catless), Akrapovic Slip-On Titanium Exhaust System

As everyone has stated, the airbox is the best it can get. However, there are sufficient gains to be had in the intake system.

More info can be found in our thread here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567651

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Here's a dyno sheet from another thread we started a while ago:



2011 BMW M3 (Alpine White)
Dynorun 21: Baseline
Dynorun 30: Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, Stock Exhaust
Dynorun 33: Macht Schnell S65 Performance Underdrive Pulleys, OEM Intake, Stock Exhaust
Dynorun 36: Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, Macht Schnell S65 Performance Underdrive Pulleys, Stock Exhaust
Dynorun 52: Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake Charge Kit, Macht Schnell S65 Performance Underdrive Pulleys, Challenge Race+ X-Pipe (Catless), Akrapovic Slip-On Titanium Exhaust System

As everyone has stated, the airbox is the best it can get. However, there are sufficient gains to be had in the intake system.

More info can be found in our thread here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567651

Yes, but do you have a dyno of the intake charge kit vs. filter alone on an otherwise stock vehicle?

The issue is that if you do a complete plumbing overhaul with full intake, header-back catless exhaust, and ECU tune, then yes, there is something to be gained with going to a full intake. However, unless you are willing to do all of this, there really is no difference between a full intake and a filter alone.

[DBH]

Dyno sheet shown has two isues:
1) What transmission is being used? It states manual in one place and DCT in another.
2) Dyno sheet provider is not exactly a non-biased independent source as they sell equipment that was tested.

Not to say there may be some HP improvement, particularly with x-pipe and pulley, it would have been interesting to see a comparison with only a after-market drop in filter.

[Lagunae92]

I have the GruppeM and really enjoy the sound. As far as performance, negligible maybe. When you pop the hood, you become mesmerized, but if you can find one use or at a good price, it's a nice option.

[LateBraking]

Put both together and drop it in.... lulz

[Grail05]

Filter and scoop and done with it

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by Ateam

The stock is already a complete CAI. Drop in filter growls and had an unbelievable sound. NO use for an intake on this car. Plenty of cars there is a use but this one came with an intake that is absolutely perfect design and uses a HUGE cone filter for stock so you can stuff a huge high flow filter in.

Dinan makes the tube bigger and charges 1000 bucks if you want to throw away 1k than go dinan. If you want to throw away 2 k than go gruppe m. If you want to spend 90 bucks for the same performance go drop-in

All unsubstantiated claims. But he still keeps making them...

OP - you are probably looking at 1-3HP from the elbow. That might be worth it to you, it might not.

I would go with the Dinan based on the fact that they have integrity and wouldn't release a product that does nothing. They also have dynos backing up their claims. Almost impossible to document a tiny increase in performance on a 400+ HP engine.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by VVG

Yes, but do you have a dyno of the intake charge kit vs. filter alone on an otherwise stock vehicle?

The issue is that if you do a complete plumbing overhaul with full intake, header-back catless exhaust, and ECU tune, then yes, there is something to be gained with going to a full intake. However, unless you are willing to do all of this, there really is no difference between a full intake and a filter alone.

HP is too small to measure IMO on this engine. If Tom does that dyno, then everyone will just say "blah blah signal noise blah blah".

What we really need is a pressure test on the intake path : ) This would simply show, regardless of gains, that the MS or Dinan design represents less of a restriction than the stock piece. Seems obvious to me that it does based on just looking at it.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

HP is too small to measure IMO on this engine. If Tom does that dyno, then everyone will just say "blah blah signal noise blah blah".

What we really need is a pressure test on the intake path : ) This would simply show, regardless of gains, that the MS or Dinan design represents less of a restriction than the stock piece. Seems obvious to me that it does based on just looking at it.

Well, I know the M3 motor doesn't utilize a MAF sensor. Does it utilize a MAP sensor?

If so, what is the difference in MAP at WOT between drop-in vs. full intake on an otherwise stock motor?

This will tell you, at least, if more air is actually getting to the intake manifold. What the engine and ECU does with that extra air is another matter entirely.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by VVG

Well, I know the M3 motor doesn't utilize a MAF sensor. Does it utilize a MAP sensor?

If so, what is the difference in MAP at WOT between drop-in vs. full intake on an otherwise stock motor?

This will tell you, at least, if more air is actually getting to the intake manifold. What the engine and ECU does with that extra air is another matter entirely.

It uses a MAP sensor, temp sensor, and a number of other items on the intake side to figure out what is going on...a tuner could elaborate further.

But what I'm talking about is measuring the pressure drop across areas of the intake. For example, how much does the pressure drop across the filter, across the stock intake elbow, across an aftermarket filter, across an aftermarket elbow. That will tell you if there is a reduction in restriction with an aftermarket elbow. Whether that translates into power can be a separate discussion.

[Sales@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

HP is too small to measure IMO on this engine. If Tom does that dyno, then everyone will just say "blah blah signal noise blah blah".

What we really need is a pressure test on the intake path : ) This would simply show, regardless of gains, that the MS or Dinan design represents less of a restriction than the stock piece. Seems obvious to me that it does based on just looking at it.

Fantastic point!

Just to add to that, intake air temperature should also be logged at the same time as it would take no extra work.

[Ateam]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

All unsubstantiated claims. But he still keeps making them...

OP - you are probably looking at 1-3HP from the elbow. That might be worth it to you, it might not.

I would go with the Dinan based on the fact that they have integrity and wouldn't release a product that does nothing. They also have dynos backing up their claims. Almost impossible to document a tiny increase in performance on a 400+ HP engine.

1. Where are you getting 1-3hp?

2.You are right it will never be noticed nor would I car

3. 1-3hp is NOT measurable on any modern device we have available. We have no way to measure that little hp since the degree of inaccuracy is much greater than that on any one given measurement.

So tuners are quite safe if they make claims of 10hp or less because it can truly never be measured and thus never refuted scientifically.

I don't know how anyone though cannot say 1k is a waste for a plastic elbow? Come on guys lets just be honest for once. If you do it for the looks than that is great and a legit reason! But for power or sound there is just no reason guys

A drop in filter automatically and instantly sounds different and is clearly worth the 100 bucks for the sound alone

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by Ateam

1. Where are you getting 1-3hp?

2.You are right it will never be noticed nor would I car

3. 1-3hp is NOT measurable on any modern device we have available. We have no way to measure that little hp since the degree of inaccuracy is much greater than that on any one given measurement.

So tuners are quite safe if they make claims of 10hp or less because it can truly never be measured and thus never refuted scientifically.

I don't know how anyone though cannot say 1k is a waste for a plastic elbow? Come on guys lets just be honest for once. If you do it for the looks than that is great and a legit reason! But for power or sound there is just no reason guys

A drop in filter automatically and instantly sounds different and is clearly worth the 100 bucks for the sound alone

So let me summarize:

-You have done zero testing.
-You are accusing multiple vendors of fraud because "they could do it"

If you are so sure, prove it. Then I will shut up.