6MT, forgive me I have sinned

767IJP · 12-23-2011, 08:03 PM

New to forum, new to BMW. Just ordered 2012 E92 M3. Going with ED first week of May. Can't wait.

I have searched threads, and have to ask about the 6MT. I have seen a lot of griping about this tranny. I drove a 2002 Boxster S 6MT for 4 years and loved it.

I test drove the DCTand enjoyed it and was shocked at the responsiveness but I didn't find it to be as engaging. Nothing against it, just a preference. I did not test drive the 6MT, figured what could be wrong? Then I see all these people complaining about the shift/clutch feel.

How bad is this tranny? Are these complaints petty gripes or should I change the order to the DCT? I would only do so if this tranny was complete garbage.

Thanks in advance, sorry if this is a dupe thread. Can't wait for the car.

Just to clarify. 6MT is far and away first choice. I don't like the shifter, too long and will replace it with the OEM short shifter after second delivery.

Cheers, Merry Christmas.

immiketoo · 12-23-2011, 08:08 PM

I don't have any issues with either of my M3s. Some do. Time for

767IJP · 12-23-2011, 08:17 PM

Yeah I'm gonna get a talkin to I'm sure.

The threads griping about it seem to be from Porsche owners. I don't have any prob with it being different. But they talk like its a piece of junk. Which I doubt. And yes I should have test drove a manual.... but it's getting cold up here in Canada and the dealership just had DCTs.....

Black Gold · 12-23-2011, 08:20 PM

Manual is fine. Not amazing, and clutch takes some getting used to because it's so light, especially compared to my old e46 m3 clutch.

I think the gearbox is fine, and much better than the e46. My issues are with the clutch, not the gearbox.

I don't regret my decision to go 6mt at all. Makes the car a challenge to drive and more fun to me.

Congrats on the new m3!

immiketoo · 12-23-2011, 08:21 PM

I test drove a DCT too and bought a manual without test driving one. I'm a manual kind of guy. I can appreciate the DCT and I wouldn't mind having it on occasion, but I love the shifter. Plain and simple. You will be fine. There is a known issue between 1 and 2, but I have adjusted subconsciously and I don't have a problem shifting anymore. It's just got a hitch, but I wound it out through three gears today without any mis shifts.

piloto · 12-23-2011, 08:29 PM

So as far as manuals go, I came from a S2000 (still have it). I can tell you you'll be disappointed, with more than anything, the non-linear clutch (with a very lightweight flywheel) and the pedal placement. However, it's all solvable.

My current setup is a ZHP knob (much much better, but a little too low), with the clutch spring delete, and a set of Ultimate Pedals. Now I have no problem heel and toe-ing, and am having a blast. It's still no S2000 in terms of the 6MT's performance, but it's not an issue at all, and in now way impacts the joy that it is to drive this car.

jeff@autocouture · 12-23-2011, 08:30 PM

The tranny is fine, just get used to it or a ssk

767IJP · 12-23-2011, 08:40 PM

Funny thing. Reading the 1-2 issue threads. Some talk of the grinding going into second. I have to laugh. I had the exact same thing with my Porsche. Cool temps, low rev shifts could grind, or worse the shift would "take" then get spat out into neutral. 3 trips into the dealer. All three "could not duplicate." holy coincidence.

Anyways. I'm hearing the clutch feel is light. Oh well can get used to this. I'm not totally up on some of the aftermarket stuff (not at all actually). So this ZHP knob is Greek to me. The dealer had a used 6MT with an BMW short shifter. Throw is the same, 30% shorter height wise. Felt much nicer than stock (granted just shifting in showroom).

This isnt the ZHP knob is it?

Thanks very much for the advice. I read these things and it shocked me. Not a fun read after dropping some serious cabbage on a depreciating asset!!!

jqsmooth · 12-23-2011, 08:40 PM

This is my first MT. Didn't know what I was getting into. It was a gamble. I was very nervous at the beginning, but I'm glad that I took the plunge. I enjoy every second of it. I'm still learning, but boy do I love the challenge. Heck, I didn't even test drive the thing. If I were to get into a DCT M3, I'd be lost. I wouldn't even know where to start. I feel like it's a totally different car. In the end, it's what you want. I got EXACTLY what I wanted and I'm happy. In this life, that's pretty rare.

PhillyNate · 12-23-2011, 08:44 PM

The tranny is certainly not garbage. Gear engagement through the gates has been spot on and positive for me. Clutch feel on the other hand is "hit or miss." Non-linear as a prior poster stated but you do get used to it. The trans feels extremely durable though IMO. Not fragile.

SD-E93-11 · 12-23-2011, 08:49 PM

Yeah, definitely get the 6MT, your car won't be performing to its potential and there's a known issue with the 6MT but by all means that's clearly the best unbiased recommendation to a new buyer.

Cuz you know what? You're going to feel "engaged" as a mofo when you're driving and that will be awesome for you. So you'll have that.

Good post OP, it's been at least two days since the forum has been engaged in a 6MT vs. DCT discussion and the topic wasn't really delved into until the '12 model came along.

Denk · 12-23-2011, 08:53 PM

I'm a DCT guy but would love a 6MT too. Really can't go wrong with either.
Congrats!

767IJP · 12-23-2011, 08:59 PM

Love it when people hate thread topics but just HAVE to comment. Holy sarcastabitch.

Sounds like I'll like this manual tranny. Takes some skill to perfect it not just some button pushing monkey.

You'd make a good airbus pilot e-93-11.

stefan · 12-23-2011, 09:01 PM

SSK is, IMO, very anti-BMW.. which have traditionally had long throws and even the driving instructors prefer it. The real problem is the broomstick-in-a-bucket shift knob adopted from the E46. Absolute shite. Install a ZHP knob and you'll be in shift heaven. Full disclosure, I love the way BMWs shift.

spdy330 · 12-23-2011, 09:12 PM

DCT for me. Too much traffic in Los Angeles.

blackbeast535 · 12-23-2011, 09:47 PM

I've had my 6MT for almost two months and now I love it. This is my daily driver in heavy traffic and I have no complaints. It did take me about 3 weeks to truly get the feel for proper clutch engagement points. This is not my first manual BTW. The biggest thing I did was change the seat position and to let this engine rev. Shifting at higher rpm in lower gear helps. This driveline can be clunky when the car is cold. I have no regrets with this manual.

SD-E93-11 · 12-23-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767IJP

Love it when people hate thread topics but just HAVE to comment. Holy sarcastabitch.

Sounds like I'll like this manual tranny. Takes some skill to perfect it not just some button pushing monkey.

You'd make a good airbus pilot e-93-11.

Not hating on your thread, I'm hating on your laziness to go back and read what's previously been written on this subject and is now being regurgitated verbatim. I actually like these 6MT threads so I can read how you peeps rationalize the manual transmission choice and romanticize a pretty basic skill practiced by me, most drivers above a certain age, and most drivers outside North America.

So to recap, your going to buy a car with the same 1-2 shift problem that bothered you enough to take your previous car with the same problem to the dealer 3 times? But gosh-darnit your going to tame this MT...because you're a purist and that's what purists do.

That's poor decision making and no, they probably wont let you fly an Airbus thinking like that.

767IJP · 12-23-2011, 10:09 PM

I like manual bro.

Don't worry about the airbus ref. it's over your head.

Peace.

mahmud///M · 12-23-2011, 10:42 PM

The tranny is fine. The only problem, or slight annoyance rather, is the 1-2 shift. Other than that, it's a great piece.

templarklimek · 12-23-2011, 10:57 PM

Having come from an Audi S5 the M3 doesn't "feel" as smooth after break-in. It always feels like a new car with a tight tranney, where as the S5 after it was broke in shifted more smoothly. Thats the best way I can describe it. Having said it is still a blast to drive and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's solid, precise and a pleasure.

Funny thing though, I have mini-s and it "snooks" into gear like butter. Same company overall. hmm.....

artar · 12-23-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD-E93-11

Not hating on your thread, I'm hating on your laziness to go back and read what's previously been written on this subject and is now being regurgitated verbatim. I actually like these 6MT threads so I can read how you peeps rationalize the manual transmission choice and romanticize a pretty basic skill practiced by me, most drivers above a certain age, and most drivers outside North America.

So to recap, your going to buy a car with the same 1-2 shift problem that bothered you enough to take your previous car with the same problem to the dealer 3 times? But gosh-darnit your going to tame this MT...because you're a purist and that's what purists do.

That's poor decision making and no, they probably wont let you fly an Airbus thinking like that.

Let's hope your mastery of shifting is better than your mastery of writing. "Your" a genius.........

767IJP · 12-23-2011, 10:58 PM

Awesome. Thanks for your time gents. You've soothed my concerns.

The funny thing is there's two camps. 6MT and DCT. To each his own. I just love how some people gotta try and prove that their way is the only way, and you're stupid if you don't agree. When in fact personal preference just can't be explained sometimes.

Merry Christmas to all.

12-23-2011, 08:03 PM	#1
767IJP Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 248 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lower Rubber Boot, Canada iTrader: (0)	6MT, forgive me I have sinned New to forum, new to BMW. Just ordered 2012 E92 M3. Going with ED first week of May. Can't wait. I have searched threads, and have to ask about the 6MT. I have seen a lot of griping about this tranny. I drove a 2002 Boxster S 6MT for 4 years and loved it. I test drove the DCTand enjoyed it and was shocked at the responsiveness but I didn't find it to be as engaging. Nothing against it, just a preference. I did not test drive the 6MT, figured what could be wrong? Then I see all these people complaining about the shift/clutch feel. How bad is this tranny? Are these complaints petty gripes or should I change the order to the DCT? I would only do so if this tranny was complete garbage. Thanks in advance, sorry if this is a dupe thread. Can't wait for the car. Just to clarify. 6MT is far and away first choice. I don't like the shifter, too long and will replace it with the OEM short shifter after second delivery. Cheers, Merry Christmas.
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12-23-2011, 08:17 PM	#3
767IJP Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 248 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lower Rubber Boot, Canada iTrader: (0)	Yeah I'm gonna get a talkin to I'm sure. The threads griping about it seem to be from Porsche owners. I don't have any prob with it being different. But they talk like its a piece of junk. Which I doubt. And yes I should have test drove a manual.... but it's getting cold up here in Canada and the dealership just had DCTs.....
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12-23-2011, 08:20 PM	#4
Black Gold Major General 592 Rep 5,396 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (15)	Manual is fine. Not amazing, and clutch takes some getting used to because it's so light, especially compared to my old e46 m3 clutch. I think the gearbox is fine, and much better than the e46. My issues are with the clutch, not the gearbox. I don't regret my decision to go 6mt at all. Makes the car a challenge to drive and more fun to me. Congrats on the new m3! __________________
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12-23-2011, 08:29 PM	#6
piloto Captain 28 Rep 843 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 - AW/FR Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Orange County, CA iTrader: (0)	So as far as manuals go, I came from a S2000 (still have it). I can tell you you'll be disappointed, with more than anything, the non-linear clutch (with a very lightweight flywheel) and the pedal placement. However, it's all solvable. My current setup is a ZHP knob (much much better, but a little too low), with the clutch spring delete, and a set of Ultimate Pedals. Now I have no problem heel and toe-ing, and am having a blast. It's still no S2000 in terms of the 6MT's performance, but it's not an issue at all, and in now way impacts the joy that it is to drive this car.
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12-23-2011, 08:30 PM	#7
jeff@autocouture BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 966 Rep 13,780 Posts Drives: 2002 E53 X5 4.6is Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	The tranny is fine, just get used to it or a ssk
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12-23-2011, 08:40 PM	#8
767IJP Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 248 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lower Rubber Boot, Canada iTrader: (0)	Funny thing. Reading the 1-2 issue threads. Some talk of the grinding going into second. I have to laugh. I had the exact same thing with my Porsche. Cool temps, low rev shifts could grind, or worse the shift would "take" then get spat out into neutral. 3 trips into the dealer. All three "could not duplicate." holy coincidence. Anyways. I'm hearing the clutch feel is light. Oh well can get used to this. I'm not totally up on some of the aftermarket stuff (not at all actually). So this ZHP knob is Greek to me. The dealer had a used 6MT with an BMW short shifter. Throw is the same, 30% shorter height wise. Felt much nicer than stock (granted just shifting in showroom). This isnt the ZHP knob is it? Thanks very much for the advice. I read these things and it shocked me. Not a fun read after dropping some serious cabbage on a depreciating asset!!!
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12-23-2011, 08:40 PM	#9
jqsmooth Captain 160 Rep 773 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (2)	This is my first MT. Didn't know what I was getting into. It was a gamble. I was very nervous at the beginning, but I'm glad that I took the plunge. I enjoy every second of it. I'm still learning, but boy do I love the challenge. Heck, I didn't even test drive the thing. If I were to get into a DCT M3, I'd be lost. I wouldn't even know where to start. I feel like it's a totally different car. In the end, it's what you want. I got EXACTLY what I wanted and I'm happy. In this life, that's pretty rare. __________________ 2008 E64 M6 2011 E92 l SSII l Fox Red - 145k and Totaled. 2012 Toyota Prius C - 145k and Totaled. 2002 Nissan Pathfinder - 301.6K and Junked. 2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport - Rolled & Totaled. 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood - RIP.
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12-23-2011, 08:44 PM	#10
PhillyNate ENTHUSIAST 135 Rep 2,097 Posts Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 Porsche Cayman [0.00]	The tranny is certainly not garbage. Gear engagement through the gates has been spot on and positive for me. Clutch feel on the other hand is "hit or miss." Non-linear as a prior poster stated but you do get used to it. The trans feels extremely durable though IMO. Not fragile. __________________ "what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson 2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt 2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15) 2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14) 2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11)
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12-23-2011, 08:49 PM	#11
SD-E93-11 First Lieutenant 3 Rep 324 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 M3 Jerez Black/Black Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (0)	Yeah, definitely get the 6MT, your car won't be performing to its potential and there's a known issue with the 6MT but by all means that's clearly the best unbiased recommendation to a new buyer. Cuz you know what? You're going to feel "engaged" as a mofo when you're driving and that will be awesome for you. So you'll have that. Good post OP, it's been at least two days since the forum has been engaged in a 6MT vs. DCT discussion and the topic wasn't really delved into until the '12 model came along.
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12-23-2011, 08:53 PM	#12
Denk Brigadier General 1006 Rep 3,341 Posts Drives: 2021 X5M Join Date: May 2011 Location: PNW iTrader: (2)	I'm a DCT guy but would love a 6MT too. Really can't go wrong with either. Congrats!
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12-23-2011, 08:59 PM	#13
767IJP Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 248 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lower Rubber Boot, Canada iTrader: (0)	Love it when people hate thread topics but just HAVE to comment. Holy sarcastabitch. Sounds like I'll like this manual tranny. Takes some skill to perfect it not just some button pushing monkey. You'd make a good airbus pilot e-93-11.
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12-23-2011, 09:01 PM	#14
stefan Brigadier General 2354 Rep 4,254 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North iTrader: (2)	SSK is, IMO, very anti-BMW.. which have traditionally had long throws and even the driving instructors prefer it. The real problem is the broomstick-in-a-bucket shift knob adopted from the E46. Absolute shite. Install a ZHP knob and you'll be in shift heaven. Full disclosure, I love the way BMWs shift. __________________ ///M Power
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12-23-2011, 09:12 PM	#15
spdy330 Major General 530 Rep 6,149 Posts Drives: 05 Tundra, 15 FIT, 17 CRV Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chino Hills, CA iTrader: (163)	DCT for me. Too much traffic in Los Angeles. __________________ If you will be purchasing ANY AT&T services online or in store could you mention that you were referred by me? My Employee Referral ID is eo4489. This would be a great help and it costs you nothing, thank you!
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12-23-2011, 09:47 PM	#16
blackbeast535 Private First Class 23 Rep 145 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 6MT Jerez Black Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: MD iTrader: (0)	I've had my 6MT for almost two months and now I love it. This is my daily driver in heavy traffic and I have no complaints. It did take me about 3 weeks to truly get the feel for proper clutch engagement points. This is not my first manual BTW. The biggest thing I did was change the seat position and to let this engine rev. Shifting at higher rpm in lower gear helps. This driveline can be clunky when the car is cold. I have no regrets with this manual. __________________ E90 M3 Jerez Black/Bamboo Beige 6MT - BMW CCA Dinan Rear Exhaust, Secondary Cat Delete, Dinan High Flow Carbon Fiber Intake, IND Painted Reflectors, BMW Edition Grills
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12-23-2011, 10:09 PM	#18
767IJP Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 248 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lower Rubber Boot, Canada iTrader: (0)	I like manual bro. Don't worry about the airbus ref. it's over your head. Peace.
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12-23-2011, 10:42 PM	#19
mahmud///M Banned 8 Rep 149 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 E92 Jerez Black Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Wild blue yonder iTrader: (0)	The tranny is fine. The only problem, or slight annoyance rather, is the 1-2 shift. Other than that, it's a great piece.
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12-23-2011, 10:57 PM	#20
templarklimek templarklimek 142 Rep 868 Posts Drives: 15' X6M, 12' R8 V10, Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Houston Texas iTrader: (0)	Having come from an Audi S5 the M3 doesn't "feel" as smooth after break-in. It always feels like a new car with a tight tranney, where as the S5 after it was broke in shifted more smoothly. Thats the best way I can describe it. Having said it is still a blast to drive and I wouldn't have it any other way. It's solid, precise and a pleasure. Funny thing though, I have mini-s and it "snooks" into gear like butter. Same company overall. hmm.....
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12-23-2011, 10:58 PM	#22
767IJP Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 248 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Lower Rubber Boot, Canada iTrader: (0)	Awesome. Thanks for your time gents. You've soothed my concerns. The funny thing is there's two camps. 6MT and DCT. To each his own. I just love how some people gotta try and prove that their way is the only way, and you're stupid if you don't agree. When in fact personal preference just can't be explained sometimes. Merry Christmas to all.
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