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07-28-2014, 05:48 PM | #376 | |
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07-28-2014, 06:18 PM | #378 |
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Ok. senor funky pants. Does that mean the rod is flexing enough to distort the bearing during combustion? if the rod was stiffer would it be more uniform pressure on the bearing?
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07-29-2014, 02:49 AM | #379 |
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AIUI The highest load on the rod bearing is during the combustion event where the downward force caused by the burning fuel pushes the top bearing shell against the crank, if the force is high enough the oil film can be squeezed out allowing metal to metal contact . Combustion chamber design extends the length of time that the fuel air combustion mix takes to burn so that the peak downward load is reduced. If the fuel air combustion is less controlled ie quicker (due to poor fuel, failed anti knock sensor etc) then the peak load increases and bearing wear is more likely, similarly increasing BHP (through supercharging etc) increases peak load and thus the potential for bearing wear.
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07-29-2014, 05:42 AM | #380 |
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Unfortunately I don't think I've seen one where the bearings have failed and not caused subsequent damage to either rods, crank or block, etc.
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07-29-2014, 06:50 AM | #381 | ||||||
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If the engine is turning it has combustion, some racing engines will kill all fuel on decel but the s65 does not do this. I have never heard of a production engine that does it. It makes transient throttle response abrupt and it is hard to tune out. Quote:
The bearings are not coming out of the saddle so the better rod would not be near as important as better clearance numbers.
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07-29-2014, 07:57 AM | #382 |
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When Bosch introduced Motronic in the early 1980s, full fuel cutoff on a closed throttle was introduced. To the best of my knowledge, all BMWs since that time have had zero fuel flow under closed throttle until around 1200-1400rpms (depends on the engine, but it resumes to prevent stalling). Similarly other makes behave in the same fashion. It's relatively easy to observe in action. I'm not aware of BMW changing things with the S65 in this regard...don't think it flows any fuel on a closed throttle as long as revs are above ~1200ish.
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07-29-2014, 09:13 AM | #383 | |
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I could have mispoken on the s65 though
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07-29-2014, 09:38 AM | #384 | |
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07-29-2014, 09:41 AM | #385 |
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Agreed. If total failure occurs you will have lots of broken parts. However if you are talking about wear, then a bearing is designed to wear, where a crank is not.
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07-29-2014, 10:48 AM | #386 |
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It's so awesome to have a true race inspired car that requires real race like maintenance. I feel like the real deal! Since this is such a remarkable design and the new m3/m4 is said to be more remarkable and race car inspired it make sense to expect similar awesome race car inspired maintenance. It must be in there somewhere. Perhaps a complete overhaul is required say every 60k or so. Just venting, back on topic.
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08-22-2014, 05:54 PM | #389 |
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2008 M3, 62,833mi
Info
Vehicle: 2008 BMW M3, 6MT Production Date: 12/07 Oil Used: TWS Motorsport 10W-60, 7500mi intervals Mileage: 62,833 mi Fuel: 91 Oct Driving Habits: Street driving, no track use Oil Analysis: None provided Notes: M3 was just purchased on used market, came in with audible ticking. After getting oil analysis performed, it was quickly scheduled in for bearing service. Engine failure imminent if not attended to immediately. Bearings were replaced with WPC Treated Bearing Set & ARP Rod Bolts. Engine and oil cooler/lines flushed to clean out any remaining debris. Images: As seen, bearing #2 suffered the most damage, with all remaining bearings showing considerable wear. Bearing particles were visible in oil filter element, required flushing to make sure all particles were removed from engine, lines and cooler. Blackstone Oil Report: Driver is very lucky to be driving his M3 today.
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08-22-2014, 06:52 PM | #390 |
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^wow! That is the most definitive Blackstone report I have seen yet and the bearings look as you would expect based on that. Great job catching that in time.
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08-22-2014, 07:01 PM | #391 |
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Now I know if my copper says 40 it's past time to change the bearings.
And I won't be driving it 3000 miles and checking it again. Bearings ASAP. |
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08-22-2014, 07:11 PM | #392 |
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Have to be proactive with these bearings. Great job EAS! Wish you guys were closer.
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08-22-2014, 11:34 PM | #393 |
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This report actually belonged to my car. I want to thank Tom @ EAS for being very professional and helpful during my whole ordeal.
After hearing some ticking from my engine, and being the anal audiophile I am, I quickly took my car to EAS to see what they had to say about it. steve @ eas gave it a listen and said he was 90% sure it was worn rod bearings that were making the noise. What I really appreciated from Tom was that he actually advised me to try have BMW NA repair it since I was only 4 months out of CPO warranty. He didn't want to take my business right away, and said that I should come back to EAS as a last resort. In the meantime, he advised that I take and oil sample and send it to Blackstone. Blackstone diagnosed my issue as rod bearing wear without knowing that I already had the assumption that I had this problem. This confirmed the problem for me and I proceeded to contact BMW NA about my issue. BMW NA suggested that I take it to a BMW dealership to diagnosis my car, and they can then decide whether they will cover the cost of repairs. I took my car to Bob Smith BMW at Calabasas, CA for the diagnosis. They wanted to charge me over $2,300.00 for the diagnosis alone, the reason being that they claimed that dropping the oil pan and looking inside was the only way to surely diagnose my problem. Since any support from BMW NA wasn't even a certainty, I took my car home and gave Tom a call. I brought in my car on Monday and EAS was finished with it Friday (today). I was very impressed with the workmanship and the thoroughness of the job. They made every effort to remove all bearing debris in the engine, and they did a terrific job. They even cleaned my entire engine bay. It looks like it was straight off the showroom floor! They replaced the piston rod bolts with ARP rod bolts, which have threads that are 10x stronger than OEM bolts, and replaced my bearing with surface treated WPC bearings, which are more durable than OEM bearings without compromising clearance. If any of you hear any ticking from your S65, don't take any chances. Stop driving the car, get and oil analysis, and give EAS a call!
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08-24-2014, 07:51 PM | #395 | |
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I even took the chance in driving 1.5 hours to drop the car off at EAS =P
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08-25-2014, 12:32 AM | #396 |
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Since the engine is coming apart, should've chucked a Stroker/Schick Camshafts in it.
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