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08-02-2011, 07:38 PM | #23 |
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Exactly why you don't buy something like this from Europe. The dollar sucks right now. It very simple piece to build and any decent fabricator in the USA can make this for a small fraction of the price. In fact you could probably find one similar from jegs or summit racing etc. and simply weld a couple mounting points and hose adapters and have a complete piece for under $500. No need to pay euros for a simple aluminum radiator.
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08-02-2011, 07:54 PM | #24 | |
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08-02-2011, 08:13 PM | #25 |
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Doesn't the ESS have a self contained oil supply?
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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08-02-2011, 08:29 PM | #26 |
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08-03-2011, 12:50 AM | #28 |
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I understand that but was wondering if the blower shares the oil with the car's oil.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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08-03-2011, 01:48 AM | #29 |
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without SC its hard to have oil temps above 110 °C
even on the Nürburgring, with 28°C degree outside temperature its hard to be higher never the less, its sounds interesting and I will call them, maybe its cheaper for me as a German ;-) cheers |
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08-03-2011, 09:50 AM | #30 | |
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At many tracks here in US at summer time, temps get as high as 40°C.
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08-03-2011, 09:55 AM | #31 | ||
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There are lots of companies here in US that can make it for half the price. Quote:
And why does IND website say that the cooler is made by IND?? Not cool at all. No wonder the mark up is so high.
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08-03-2011, 10:05 AM | #32 |
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the oil for the Vortech V3 supercharger used in the ESS kits is self contained. There is no need for external cooling. The VT2 kits, however, do use a water intercooler for cooling the engine's intake manifold (i.e. to cool the incoming air, not the oil for the supercharger).
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08-03-2011, 10:06 AM | #34 |
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I apologize for the confusion, but that IND image you reference is a default image we use when we are producing a manufacturer logo for our site. If you reference the text in the description you will see that we mention it is made by Motorsport24 DBA M24 multiple times. Once again we apologize for the confusion and those who do business with us and know us personally can attest to the fact that we would NEVER falsely market a product.
Below is the description on our website as well as in this thread: "M24 Oil Cooler German competition components manufacturer Motorsport24 has created a unique oil cooling solution for the E9x M3. Their oversized oil cooler is a direct fit in any E9x M3 and is hand built in their state of the art facility in the small town of Kalefeld Germany. The cooler is substantially larger than the factory cooler, and has been tested to be effective on courses like the Nurburgring, Hockenheimring, and the Motorsport Arena Oschersleben to produce as much as a 50 degree Fahrenheit drop in oil temperature!"
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08-03-2011, 10:44 AM | #35 | |
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As a counterpoint, here's an example of an oil cooler built in the US using off the shelf parts as you suggested: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-40...ooler-kit.aspx The kit is for an E46 M3, and sells for $1,054. The cooler is an off the shelf Fluidyne unit. Turner does supply you with the appropriate lines and fittings to adapt the cooler to the M3, as the fittings on the cooler are not a direct fit to the M3 cooler lines. Turner also tells you that custom brackets must be fabricated to fit the cooler to the car. By comparison, the M24 oil cooler includes machined aluminum blocks that allow for use of the original BMW oil cooler lines. The blocks must be designed in CAD by an engineer, test units must be made, then finally the blocks have to be machined from a block of aluminum billet and finish welded to the M24 cooler core. The end tanks are also hand made, and are unique to the M24 cooler. By creating their own end tanks, M24 was able to produce a cooler that not only replicates factory oil flow characteristics inside the cooler, but also fits exactly within the factory sizing constraints. From there, instead of sending you a generic core and telling you to make your own brackets, M24 created brackets that are designed to use the factory fastners and even the factory bushings. Here also these are not a generic bracket but rather a machined piece. That means the original bracket has to be measured first, then a new bracket must be designed specifically to the new M24 core. The bracket has to be drawn in CAD, and again machined from aluminum. The bracket is then hand-welded to the hand-welded end tanks that are already on the cooling core. In order to weld the cooler line blocks and brackets to the cooling core, a jig must be made to ensure correct fit each time the product is built. The jig must again be designed in CAD and built from steel or aluminum. Once the jig is made you can actually build the cooler with good dimensional precision. This process adds to the cost of the cooler, but also enhances the quality. Aftermarket cooler lines are not needed because the blocks on the cooler are designed specifically to fit with the E9x M3's factory cooler lines. You're not left to make the brackets on your own, because the M24 cooler comes with sturdy brackets that interface with the OEM mounting points and OEM bushings. Of course companies like Setrab, Fluidyne, and others have economy of scale on their side. Similarly to Turner's $1,000 cooler kit, many companies use overseas manufacturing, and are not selling a low volume item like an E9x M3 specific cooler. The Fluidyne core seen on Turner's website is sold as a general application product with thousands of units produced per year, which reduces the manufacturing cost substantially. Additionally, there is no guarantee that the coolers seen on Jegs or Summit are made entirely in the US. Overseas manufacturing also allows for lower production costs. Unfortunately, IND as a company has always tried our best to stay away from "generic fit" products, or products built overseas. It's not possible to do so every time, but if we have a choice between a specifically designed product built in Germany and a generic piece that's meant to fit many cars, we will choose the specifically designed, German built product every time. Additionally, I do feel that certain companies have a passion for BMW specifically, and we choose to work more with those companies. This is the reason why IND prefers to help our clients obtain Eisenmann or Akrapovic exhausts over say, Magnaflow, Billy Boat, or even Corsa. Similarly to a "Jegs catalog" oil cooler solution, companies like Magnaflow, Borla, Billy Boat, and other American exhaust manufacturers do offer exhaust system solutions for BMW cars, but we've found that the passion is simply not evident in those products. Simply put, B&B, Magnaflow, etc... don't care about BMW enthusiasts or the E9x M3, and IND prefers to work with people who do. It's for this reason that I personally would choose a hand built product created by a company with a passion for BMW, rather than an item that is available from a Jegs or Summit catalog. Different strokes for different folks! In any case, sorry for the long winded response, and best of luck to you on your oil cooler project! There are many shops in Los Angeles, but I'd recommend working with "AutoTalent" for install services.
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08-03-2011, 10:45 AM | #36 | |
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08-03-2011, 10:50 AM | #37 |
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Great looking product IND! Thanks for finding it, doing research on it, testing it, using your money to import them so that we in the states can buy them, etc. For people who think they can do all the R&D, fabrication, testing, shipping, etc for less for a plug and play unit, step up and put your $$ where your mouth is! But don't fault a business for selling something at a profit. That's what businesses are supposed to do! You'd be mad if you worked all day and then your boss gave you a high five instead of a paycheck!
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08-03-2011, 11:15 AM | #38 | |
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08-03-2011, 11:19 AM | #39 |
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Definitely true! I absolutely applaud those who choose to go the DIY route, and am looking forward to seeing some of those DIY oil coolers in action.
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08-03-2011, 11:23 AM | #40 |
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08-03-2011, 12:08 PM | #41 | |
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Im surprised this is the first direct fit oil cooler for M3.
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08-03-2011, 01:32 PM | #42 |
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I never said I was going to make one I have no need. But do have metal fabricating experience so was just commenting on price. Tough to keep an oil radiator affordable after importing it from Europe and still be able to make some profit.
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08-04-2011, 07:21 AM | #43 | |
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08-06-2011, 01:28 AM | #44 |
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No but I do know of one in Carson...
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