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      03-09-2011, 11:41 PM   #1
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RPM needle a bit slow when hitting high rpms in 1st gear?

I've been noticing that I hit the rev limiter pretty quickly when running through first gear at WOT. It almost feels like the needle can't quite keep up with the engine speed when it's way up there. I know the obvious answer is that I'm not shifting fast enough, but does this happen to anyone else? Might only be relevant to 6MT owners. I noticed when I shift at around 8100rpms I bounce off the limiter before I'm in 2nd gear.

I'm not complaining. Just thought it was worth posting my observation as I've had high revving cars in the past and never had this issue before. It seems as if the M3 engine revs too fast!
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      03-09-2011, 11:57 PM   #2
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The tach lagging has been my impression too.
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      03-10-2011, 12:08 AM   #3
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My observation is that when driving in s5 and I shift at redline, 1-2nd, the shift is very smooth and u can't feel the car jerk. While driving in s5 and u shift 1-2nd at 5k -6k rpm, u can feel the car shift or jerk a tad. like the shift was instantaneous while shifting at redline it lags a bit. Why is that ? Is this what u mean op?
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      03-10-2011, 12:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip View Post
My bike revs to 18k and I haven't had a problem with the limiter and the needle being slow. That's interesting that the M3's would be slow.
In my defense, isn't shifting a bike faster than a car? Never rode a bike so I really wouldn't know.

I'm sure the needle isn't slow. I just feels like it because I often hit the limiter before I'm done shifting into second and it throws me off. With a car that pulls harder and harder to redline the fuel cut is a gut-wrenching feeling. I'm just not used to how fast the revs climb in first gear high rpms.
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      03-10-2011, 07:31 AM   #5
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The tach needle is slow in first gear. I always shift long before the needle reaches redline. Otherwise, the engine bounces off the rev limiter. It happened to me in both the DCT and the 6sp.
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      03-10-2011, 08:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
...I'm sure the needle isn't slow. I just feels like it because I often hit the limiter before I'm done shifting into second and it throws me off.
Because of the short gearing and the resultant rate at which the M3 picks up revs in first gear, the tach needle definitely lags behind the actual revs. Happened on our E46 as well, and of course that car wouldn't pick up revs as fast as the current model. Just shift a hundred or two hundred rpm early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
With a car that pulls harder and harder to redline the fuel cut is a gut-wrenching feeling. I'm just not used to how fast the revs climb in first gear high rpms.
The car is definitely very "sudden" in first gear, but as a nit, it doesn't pull "harder and harder to redline". It pulls hardest (in any gear) at the 3900 rpm torque peak, and gently tapers off after that. It's just that as the revs rise, the sturm and drang increases, particularly over that last 12-1400 rpm, thus fooling the driver into thinking it's pulling harder.

In the M3, the driver's heart rate increases proportionally with rpm.

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      03-10-2011, 08:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Rakete View Post
The tach lagging has been my impression too.
+1

It definitely cannot keep up with the revs in 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Just shift a hundred or two hundred rpm early.
This is what I do ^
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      03-10-2011, 10:13 AM   #8
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With DCT the shift lights seem to help a bit, but yes it seems to fall slightly behind (couple hundred RPM). Like Bruce said, just shift to second gear a little earlier.
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      03-10-2011, 10:21 AM   #9
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Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
...In the M3, the driver's heart rate increases proportionally with rpm.

Bruce
Ah, that must be it.
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      03-10-2011, 10:24 AM   #10
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thats weird.. i have no problem on mine when shifting at 8100 or 8200.... into the 2nd gear... you might have your foot still on the gas when shifting and not shifting fast enough to put into 2nd. ... off the gas pedal when shifting...
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      03-10-2011, 10:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip View Post
No, he means that the RPM needle is a bit behind the actual revs of the car. He hits rev limiter and the needle doesn't show it. It's behind.
oh ok now i get what hes trying to say... hmmmm i think i might try this tonight...
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      03-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean05 View Post
thats weird.. i have no problem on mine when shifting at 8100 or 8200.... into the 2nd gear... you might have your foot still on the gas when shifting and not shifting fast enough to put into 2nd. ... off the gas pedal when shifting...
Definitely not on the gas when shifting. Shifting slow is another story.
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      03-10-2011, 10:42 AM   #13
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Full sweep from 0 to 9K at gauge's maximum speed takes about 2-3 seconds. It's nowhere near "instant".
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      03-10-2011, 03:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
The tach needle is slow in first gear. I always shift long before the needle reaches redline. Otherwise, the engine bounces off the rev limiter. It happened to me in both the DCT and the 6sp.
^This, both 6MT & DCT. Between quick downward glances to the tach & watching the road, I adjusted to shifting at around 8,000 or 8,100 RPM, and I'm pretty sure that the actual shift is happening at max. If it's not, well, it beats the hell out of the fuel getting cutoff and my upper torso lurching forward against the seat belt. Man, I want HUD on my M3. :I Any electro-mechanical genius out there up for a challenge? HUD would be one mod I'd get.
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      03-10-2011, 07:38 PM   #15
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Ever consider reaction time? First your eye sees. Then your brain recognizes, processes and reacts sending signal to your hand. Transmission reacts. If you start this process when tach is passing 8100 at WOT, it will hit limiter before you can hit 2nd gear every time.
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      03-10-2011, 08:06 PM   #16
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The above is true.

Also, there are two revlimiters that this car has, a soft revlimiter and a hard revlimiter. The soft revlimiter usually cuts injection to half of the cylinders to bring down the RPM. The hard limiter cuts injection completely and is much more abrupt. In first gear, because the car is accelerating so quickly, the rev limiter kicks in a bit sooner because the propensity to overshoot it in a low gear with quick accelertion is high. This may give the impression that the needle is slow.
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      03-10-2011, 09:49 PM   #17
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My e39 m5 was the same way
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      03-11-2011, 02:19 PM   #18
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It happens to me alot after installing the ESS VT-1 supercharger cause the RPM needle sweeps through the RPM gauge in no time in 1st gear

Last edited by forumes; 03-11-2011 at 02:27 PM..
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