Fifth Gear: M3 GTS vs Porsche GT3 RS

[Kayani_1]

It is good to know that you can order those things and specially AC. Other wise you would be stuck in an ugly car and smell bad upon getting out in summer heat.

As far the red line goes the M3 makes it power all the way up to or near 8400 rpm where as the GT3 RS gets done by 7900 rpm. What is the point of the extra 500 rpm when you are all done by 7900 rpm.

Last but not least yes the GT3 RS numbers you posted show the GT3 RS to be slightly faster on ring. But like I said I would be happy to give up that edge just based on the looks. I know looks are an opinion. But no one in their right mind has ever considered any Porsche 911 variants to be good looking. They look like muscular VW Bettle....i'll take M3 GTS. Because only thing in that video looks lame looks wise is the GT3 RS. On the whole I think except for Porsche Carrera GT every other Porsche looks like a frog on its hind legs.

One thing is for sure the M3 GTS could gain from losing some more weight by employing more extensive CF and the price is a bit too high. It should have been priced just under $100K.

As far as racing heritage goes then get your facts straight also....that BMW has countless victories in many different racing events. Not to mention the current ALMS M3 GT2 is kicking Porsche 911's butt since its inception in head to head races....ditto goes for Rolex Continental racing series GT cars.....

Originally Posted by devo

The RS does not have a radio or stereo because the person who ordered it CHOSE to delete those options. GT3s and RSs have AC/Stereo. Refer to post #25.

Each car has a redline of 8400/8500, iircc. The fact that the RS's power may fall off @ 7900 is rather moot because you would never know it. I'd be more concerned about the superior power to weight and torque advantage of the RS.

As if the RS or a GT3 doesn't have high revving furry! Hey, you like the "formula one LIKE high revving V8" as opposed to the venerable Mezger GT1 Porsche engine with countless race victories over several decades which is fine but get some facts straight first.

The GTS looks rather lame behind the RS in the aforementioned video feature.

Did you also forget how big the gap was between these cars at the Nurburgring: 7:33 vs. 7:48, respectively? That's a large margin. Add to this equation that the GTS costs more than the RS.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

It is good to know that you can order those things and specially AC. Other wise you would be stuck in an ugly car and smell bad upon getting out in summer heat.

As far the red line goes the M3 makes it power all the way up to or near 8400 rpm where as the GT3 RS gets done by 7900 rpm. What is the point of the extra 500 rpm when you are all done by 7900 rpm.

Last but not least yes the GT3 RS numbers you posted show the GT3 RS to be slightly faster on ring. But like I said I would be happy to give up that edge just based on the looks. I know looks are an opinion. But no one in their right mind has ever considered any Porsche 911 variants to be good looking. They look like muscular VW Bettle....i'll take M3 GTS. Because only thing in that video looks lame looks wise is the GT3 RS. On the whole I think except for Porsche Carrera GT every other Porsche looks like a frog on its hind legs.

One thing is for sure the M3 GTS could gain from losing some more weight by employing more extensive CF and the price is a bit too high. It should have been priced just under $100K.

As far as racing heritage goes then get your facts straight also....that BMW has countless victories in many different racing events. Not to mention the current ALMS M3 GT2 is kicking Porsche 911's butt since its inception in head to head races....ditto goes for Rolex Continental racing series GT cars.....

Slightly faster on the Ring? Christ, if I smoked I could finish a cigarette in the time it work take the GTS to catch up.

I shouldn't have to explain the advantage of having a redline past max power.

Yeah, BMW should have used more light weight pieces but it would still be heavier than the RS or GT3 AND cost even more.

As for racing heritage, my point being that Porsche has countless victories with basically the same engine architecture that powers the RS. Not so much with the current M3 powered engine; you opened that door.

The repeated use of all of your emoticons is, well... a little childish; funny and really cute though.

[jjojo2004]

BOTH machines are a WIN WIN combination in my book!

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by devo

Slightly faster on the Ring? Christ, if I smoked I could finish a cigarette in the time it work take the GTS to catch up.

I shouldn't have to explain the advantage of having a redline past max power.

Yeah, BMW should have used more light weight pieces but it would still be heavier than the RS or GT3 AND cost even more.

The repeated use of all of your emoticons is, well... a little childish; funny and really cute though.

Wow, Kayani's post is so delusional, that I am just going to ignore it (I don't know if it is a guy or girl) and just talk to you, devo.

You and I know that Porsche is the most decorated car manufacturer by a huge margin. Hands down.

Plenty of people prefer the looks of a 911 over a BMW, and plenty of people prefer the looks of a BMW over a 911. That is just personal preference. Some people like to compare the 911 to just a supped up bug, but I can't help but notice that our bmws look are starting to look generic with all these 3 series clones from Hyundai and infinity. At least the 911 at the very least looks unique.

And you are right. There is a 15 second difference on the n ring. That is HUGE considering it becomes exponentially more difficult to shave those seconds few seconds off when you break that 8 minute mark. Let's just be real here. The m3 gts competes performance wise to a basic carrera s. All these comparisons to other 911 variants are just an exercise in futility.

[Karthy]

Why they slide in the corner for set the lap time???

Why don't use the same driver???

Fifth gear's result is not quite accuracy enough (in my personal)

[devo]

Originally Posted by crackberry

Wow, Kayani's post is so delusional, that I am just going to ignore it (I don't know if it is a guy or girl) and just talk to you, devo.

You and I know that Porsche is the most decorated car manufacturer by a huge margin. Hands down.

Plenty of people prefer the looks of a 911 over a BMW, and plenty of people prefer the looks of a BMW over a 911. That is just personal preference. Some people like to compare the 911 to just a supped up bug, but I can't help but notice that our bmws look are starting to look generic with all these 3 series clones from Hyundai and infinity. At least the 911 at the very least looks unique.

And you are right. There is a 15 second difference on the n ring. That is HUGE considering it becomes exponentially more difficult to shave those seconds few seconds off when you break that 8 minute mark. Let's just be real here. The m3 gts competes performance wise to a basic carrera s. All these comparisons to other 911 variants are just an exercise in futility.

Agreed.

I like both cars for different reasons.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Karthy

Why they slide in the corner for set the lap time???

Why don't use the same driver???

Fifth gear's result is not quite accuracy enough (in my personal)

Agreed.

[RussRamz]

I've had the opportunity to drive the RS in Germany and while I own an M3, I'd take the RS... It's a FANTASTIC car. It will be my next car if I can afford it.

[Kayani_1]

WTF.....look who is mature throwing personal attacks are you on crack.....crackberry. Dude grow up and learn to write without turning things into personal attacks.

Originally Posted by crackberry

Wow, Kayani's post is so delusional, that I am just going to ignore it (I don't know if it is a guy or girl) and just talk to you, devo.

[Kayani_1]

Yeah, in what universe it would take 15 sec....to smoke a cigarette. Maybe take your helmet off and pull out the cigarette packet and lighter. But that is how far you will get.

Please, dude 15 sec in not an eternity it can be erased with just the tire difference or even different drivers driving under different conditions. Like I said yes the GT3 RS is slightly faster. But I would be happy to give that up just based on looks as Porsche 911's look a bit ugly in my opinion.

I doubt anyone buys a $125K car just for track performance alone. Because I can point you to far more track dedicated cars for less. At the end looks and sound of engine etc. are all big part of the emotional package. Also, how fun and easy the car is to handle. This is where the M3 GTS has an edge over GT3 RS.

As far as the racing heritage goes your point is not making much sense and you opened that can of worm. The same engine architecture that they have used for countless victories is getting its butt kicked in ALMS by M3 GT2's this year as well as last year. So where is the advantage... as a fairly new engine architecture of M3 V8 is handing the Porsche's GT3's experienced and tried architecture its ass. The M3's are heavily being used in Rolex continental series and they are handing Porsche GT3's there ass there also. So much for tried and established architecture.

Bottom line is M3 GTS has some short comings but so does the Porsche GT3 RS. Now try writing a post without throwing personal insults. Because only person looking childish is you with personal attacks. Because you did not look cute nor funny doing it.

Originally Posted by devo

Slightly faster on the Ring? Christ, if I smoked I could finish a cigarette in the time it work take the GTS to catch up.

I shouldn't have to explain the advantage of having a redline past max power.

Yeah, BMW should have used more light weight pieces but it would still be heavier than the RS or GT3 AND cost even more.

As for racing heritage, my point being that Porsche has countless victories with basically the same engine architecture that powers the RS. Not so much with the current M3 powered engine; you opened that door.

The repeated use of all of your emoticons is, well... a little childish; funny and really cute though.

[cmk227]

I this vid.

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

WTF.....look who is mature throwing personal attacks are you on crack.....crackberry. Dude grow up and learn to write without turning things into personal attacks.

That is not a personal attack. Your opinions really are wild and ridiculous. When talking about racing heritage, Porsche beats all hands down. This is an undisputed fact and anyone who believes other is just straight up delusional. Does that make my ///m car any less valuable? No. Don't play the victim card when you are making grossly fallacious statements and insulting other's handles. I am just calling you out on your wild statements, and have yet to lob a personal attach, unlike you. Btw, you obviously have not heard of crackberry.com, which is a respectable resource for blackberry information much like bimmerpost.com is to BMW.

[N8dawg]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

Yeah, in what universe it would take 15 sec....to smoke a cigarette. Maybe take your helmet off and pull out the cigarette packet and lighter. But that is how far you will get.

Please, dude 15 sec in not an eternity it can be erased with just the tire difference or even different drivers driving under different conditions. Like I said yes the GT3 RS is slightly faster. But I would be happy to give that up just based on looks as Porsche 911's look a bit ugly in my opinion.

I doubt anyone buys a $125K car just for track performance alone. Because I can point you to far more track dedicated cars for less. At the end looks and sound of engine etc. are all big part of the emotional package. Also, how fun and easy the car is to handle. This is where the M3 GTS has an edge over GT3 RS.

As far as the racing heritage goes your point is not making much sense and you opened that can of worm. The same engine architecture that they have used for countless victories is getting its butt kicked in ALMS by M3 GT2's this year as well as last year. So where is the advantage... as a fairly new engine architecture of M3 V8 is handing the Porsche's GT3's experienced and tried architecture its ass. The M3's are heavily being used in Rolex continental series and they are handing Porsche GT3's there ass there also. So much for tried and established architecture.

Bottom line is M3 GTS has some short comings but so does the Porsche GT3 RS. Now try writing a post without throwing personal insults. Because only person looking childish is you with personal attacks. Because you did not look cute nor funny doing it.

How about the people who buy GT3 Cups, RSRs, GT3 Rs, Z06X, 599XX, ACR-X...
All of which are more expensive than their street legal counterparts.

[Kayani_1]

I have not insulted any other handle who has not insulted me first. My opinion of your claims is not very high and mighty either. But I am not going to start calling you names based on that. Get a life dude.

As far as racing heritage goes "Porsche does not beat all hands down"....take your Porsche blinders off because you seem to be delusional. They have a good racing heritage much like many other automobile manufacturers including BMW. But they are not all end all....like you are making them out to be. So how is Porsche fairing with their super mighty heritage in ALMS or Rolex continental racing series here against M3's off lately.

Also, I do not care to hear about your crack sites. So stop forcing unsolicited info down my throat.

Originally Posted by crackberry

That is not a personal attack. Your opinions really are wild and ridiculous. When talking about racing heritage, Porsche beats all hands down. This is an undisputed fact and anyone who believes other is just straight up delusional. Does that make my ///m car any less valuable? No. Don't play the victim card when you are making grossly fallacious statements and insulting other's handles. I am just calling you out on your wild statements, and have yet to lob a personal attach, unlike you. Btw, you obviously have not heard of crackberry.com, which is a respectable resource for blackberry information much like bimmerpost.com is to BMW.

[saeedg48]

i take the m3.. in the porches color please

[Kayani_1]

True they all are expensive then their more common counter parts and for a good reason too. They offer more exclusivity, prestige and performance. All these factors play a huge part not to mention emotions when people set out to purchase these hyper machines. The M3 GTS might to do for me what GT3 RS will do for some one else.

In reality the purchase of these hyper performance cars in not much difference then us going with M3 or RS6 or IS-F or CTS-V or C63 AMG etc....Because at the end what might fancy me might not fancy you. Other wise if every thing depended upon track performance then we would all be driving the same kind of car. The one that can go around the track fastest. So track performance is very important but so are other factors.

Originally Posted by N8dawg

How about the people who buy GT3 Cups, RSRs, GT3 Rs, Z06X, 599XX, ACR-X...
All of which are more expensive than their street legal counterparts.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

m3 is easier to drive, 911 requires more input - been the same story for decades.

people say the 911 when driven properly is more rewarding.

both cars are sensational, but those times are b.s.

the variables are too important:
1. drivers
2. the gt3rs comes w/ ps cups / m3 gts comes with neova ad08s i believe - those cups, when heated up, are faster.

the m3 has always been the form of practicality and sportiness.

^^
Sums it up nicely imo.^
Besides, both drivers should drive both cars, to make it right.
Another thing, BMW is a better allround car, more "forgiving", whereas the Porsche, is more lethal, and more hardcore.
Nontheless, great effort from BMW, they keep doing better i'd say, Porsche is the benchmark, so they're getting closer by each model imo.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

Yeah, in what universe it would take 15 sec....to smoke a cigarette. Maybe take your helmet off and pull out the cigarette packet and lighter. But that is how far you will get.

Please, dude 15 sec in not an eternity it can be erased with just the tire difference or even different drivers driving under different conditions. Like I said yes the GT3 RS is slightly faster. But I would be happy to give that up just based on looks as Porsche 911's look a bit ugly in my opinion.

I doubt anyone buys a $125K car just for track performance alone. Because I can point you to far more track dedicated cars for less. At the end looks and sound of engine etc. are all big part of the emotional package. Also, how fun and easy the car is to handle. This is where the M3 GTS has an edge over GT3 RS.

As far as the racing heritage goes your point is not making much sense and you opened that can of worm. The same engine architecture that they have used for countless victories is getting its butt kicked in ALMS by M3 GT2's this year as well as last year. So where is the advantage... as a fairly new engine architecture of M3 V8 is handing the Porsche's GT3's experienced and tried architecture its ass. The M3's are heavily being used in Rolex continental series and they are handing Porsche GT3's there ass there also. So much for tried and established architecture.

Bottom line is M3 GTS has some short comings but so does the Porsche GT3 RS. Now try writing a post without throwing personal insults. Because only person looking childish is you with personal attacks. Because you did not look cute nor funny doing it.

The cigarette was obviously a joke. However, 15 seconds is a lot of time. These times were recorded by the professionals looking for optimal times, with professional drivers, new tires, etc... So, no, the examples you post would not erase anywhere near 15 seconds or even half that time. I am not familiar with the GTS tire compound but even if the GTS does not have a CUP type tire (as the RS does), the time gap MAY erode by 4-6 seconds; assuming the GTS has a tire with a dissimilar compound. Oh, and did I forget that the GTS has DCT, right? (Whereas the RS has a good old stick.) If so then we'll take back all or most of any conceivable tire advantage.

Porsche added 65 HP to the RS over the 911S, lessened the weight by > 150 lbs, added an incredible amount of downforce, lowered the CG, added a proper true dry sump racing type engine and racing type transmission, racing type suspension components, increased tire patch contact, added a wider track, superior and lighter brakes, CUP tires, and on and on... only to gain roughly the same 15 seconds over the .2 911S at the Ring. So, yeah, 15 seconds is a lot and is hard to come by. Christ the almighty GT2 RS gains are similar or less over the 3RS. Look at how much went into that car!

The GT3 and RSs are great street cars which happen to be track worthy. Mine could be daily driven very easily.

Yes BMW does excellent at the races. Again my point was that you were originally knocking the engine and I responded as to its heritage, referring to its symphonic engine/exhaust sound, etc.... I applaud any manufacturer that can produce an engine like the Mezger. Your own comment about you preferring a formula one type engine to whatever you said about the Porsche's engine prompted my response.

We have different opinions in regards to what we find beautiful in a car. There is no need to insult the 911 as you have and do because you also insulting the people who like it. So, I will survive with your insults but expect some proper feedback.

As I have posted before I like both cars, however, if I disliked the the M I wouldn't insult people here by talking trash about the car. Preview your own posts if you have any doubt as to your own comments.

Sorry if you felt the childish comment was insulting. Time will tell if you continue to act in such a manner.

[mike87]

with styling aside, any one of you who chose the GTS over the GT3RS need to get your head checked

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Agreed both are nice automobiles (the kind of cars we like), I have to agree with most posters here that this was not a real comparisons at all. I like to add ...

1) Two different drivers.

2) Two different driving styles.

3) Male and Female ... come on now

4) The M3 heavier then the Porsche

I'm sure there are more points one can add here ... and yes Top Gear would have done a better job to begin with used the same driver

As far as I am concerned I love my M3 just the way it is ....

Here are 2 drivers and it is nice to see the M3 keeping up nicely with the Porsche ....

Click for the video

Okay, first off, Vicki Butler-Henderson is a very talented driver. Maybe not on Tiff's level, but still better than almost anyone on this forum. She is a professional racing driver, as well as a racing instructor.

Also, for those who are talking about Vicki's drifting of the GTS: Have any of you ever seen how film is edited? The shots of her drifting aren't necessarily from the actual timed lap(s). It just means they used some glory shots of the M3 drifting around the course.

The guys at Fifth Gear did this well and professionally. I don't hear any of you bitching when Tiff and Jason do a race against one another. Oh wait, that's probably because you know Jason's a BTCC champion racer, and you know nothing about Vicki and her abilities. There's a reason they keep her around.

[Crimson92]

i dont care who won or who is faster.

i want both

[N8dawg]

Originally Posted by mike87

with styling aside, any one of you who chose the GTS over the GT3RS need to get your head checked

+1 with styling included. No one is buying a track car for looks. Period.