M3 v. 997 drag?

[jonasaurus]

Ive previously owned a 997.1S, driven a 997.2S and non-S as well as driven a GT3 RS (3.8) and now currently owning an E90 M3. My take would be the 997S and the M3 are similar in 'speed' but are of course totally different driving propositions. GT3 RS of course was in another league!

[elh0102]

Originally Posted by KKM3

I completely agree. I'm actually in the market for a cayman R, which is the best handling car I've ever driven, less power than my 911 but simply amazing through the corners.

I was also ready to buy an R, but a local, used 2010 Cayman S turned up, with PASM and limited slip differential, so I got most of what I wanted and saved some money. I also found the standard power seat suits me a little better than the sport seat in the R, but that's just an individual thing. Now I'm enduring the pleasant pain of having both the M3 and Cayman, but unfortunately I can't keep both!

[Drifting Tree]

Cayman R is nuts!!!!

As far as the acceleration. Unless you have done significant work and you are using DCT there is no comparison between the M3 and the 997S. The M3 cannot compete. It is much much closer with the 997.

[DylanMckay]

Originally Posted by Drifting Tree

Cayman R is nuts!!!!

As far as the acceleration. Unless you have done significant work and you are using DCT there is no comparison between the M3 and the 997S. The M3 cannot compete. It is much much closer with the 997.

No offense but look at the video above-this is a e93 vert with dct in a straight line from a roll which means no driver advantage really. It stays dead even with the 997s.1. So how would there be "no contest" as you say when this clearly shows differently with a vert on top of that. Sure the 997.2 is fater than .1 but this video also has a vert so a m3 coupe/sedan v. 997.2 seems it would be almost identical power to weight

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

No offense but look at the video above-this is a e93 vert with dct in a straight line from a roll which means no driver advantage really. It stays dead even with the 997s.1. So how would there be "no contest" as you say when this clearly shows differently with a vert on top of that. Sure the 997.2 is fater than .1 but this video also has a vert so a m3 coupe/sedan v. 997.2 seems it would be almost identical power to weight

Lol did you not see the video I posted?

[DylanMckay]

I guess I could have done this initially but somewhat to answer more objectively as I looked up the weight of the 997 and a power to weight comparo puts them both at exactly 8.6-8.7 pounds per horsepower

997s-3300 pounds, 380hp
m3-3575, 414

I actually thought the porsche weighed less. Thats why I do not understand people knocking the m3's weight considering an absolutely dedicated iconic pure sports car is only 275 pounds less. If you factor in the variance in driver weight and fuel your carrying that could be closer to 175 pounds and then factor in where some of the heavier pieces of the weight is on the m3-which is dead center and low in the car including seats, frame etc. Its not a bad weight figure at all

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

I'd buy that Cayman R in a heartbeat! Telepathic steering!

It's an unbelievable machine. Going to drive one again today!

[gthal]

Originally Posted by KKM3

Lol did you not see the video I posted?

Selective reading

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

I guess I could have done this initially but somewhat to answer more objectively as I looked up the weight of the 997 and a power to weight comparo puts them both at exactly 8.6-8.7 pounds per horsepower

997s-3300 pounds, 380hp
m3-3575, 414

I actually thought the porsche weighed less. Thats why I do not understand people knocking the m3's weight considering an absolutely dedicated iconic pure sports car is only 275 pounds less. If you factor in the variance in driver weight and fuel your carrying that could be closer to 175 pounds and then factor in where some of the heavier pieces of the weight is on the m3-which is dead center and low in the car including seats, frame etc. Its not a bad weight figure at all

Lol your numbers are a little bit biased. First of all, your comparing the heaviest 911 to the lightest m3. Good luck finding an m3 that weighs 3500 pounds. My 911 weighs 3200lbs and I have a pretty good amount of options.

[DylanMckay]

Originally Posted by KKM3

Lol your numbers are a little bit biased. First of all, your comparing the heaviest 911 to the lightest m3. Good luck finding an m3 that weighs 3500 pounds. My 911 weighs 3200lbs and I have a pretty good amount of options.

Just look on the thread recently started in the drivetrain section. Weighed no driver is consistent with multiple others coming in at around 3550 with some lighter seats. So 3600 is about right. if i said 3500 than I typed that wrong.

So even if you take 3200 v. 3600-power to weights come out pretty darn close, especialy for .1's and still close for .2's

[KKM3]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

Just look on the thread recently started in the drivetrain section. Weighed no driver is consistent with multiple others coming in at around 3550 with some lighter seats. So 3600 is about right. if i said 3500 than I typed that wrong.

So even if you take 3200 v. 3600-power to weights come out pretty darn close, especialy for .1's and still close for .2's

Just look at the video I posted at the end of the first page. There's really nothing else to say.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

Not talking about a track as I know porsche has the upper hand on almost any of their 911 models but as far as a straight line race from a roll how do the straight line speeds stack up with the regular 911S and the GT3? (I know their is a mid-model upgrade but either one I am curious about)

Just curious how the 4 litre V8 compares to the 4L flat 6 (or 3.9l) in the gt3. Both must be two of the greatest engines ever but I have not had priveleage to drive the porsche

In a nutshell (and finally):

M3 beats up on 997.1
Very minor advantage to M3 against the 997S1. Take ten of each, and the M3 will win, say, eight races.
Heads up with 997.2 (see Car & Driver 2009 comparo between M3 and the 997.2, each with the automatic)
Loses to 997S2

Gets killed by either version of the GT3
Also gets beat by any of the new 991-model 911s

From a dead stop, the Porsches have the advantage, as long as the P-car driver is willing to abuse the machinery - think massive axle tramp. With a more merciful launch by the Porsche driver, the M3 does a bunch better.

By the way, the M3 does not disgrace itself on a road course against the 911s. With novices aboard, the M3 will beat up on everything except the GT3s, and even with experienced track rats, the M3 will more or less hold its own against everything except the 997S2 - and of course the new 991s.

Bruce

[DylanMckay]

Not trying to be an m3 douche and I do agree that video with the .2s beating the m3 is consistent with what people are saying, if you watch the video the m3 is starting in the wrong gear as you can see how bogged down it gets compared to the jump you can see it gets in any other straight line race.

Once the cars are going, you can see the m3 is pretty much not losing much ground and they are pulling pretty much the same.

I think the m3 probably started in 3rd and was way too low in the revband and the porsche walked him early and of course the m3 could not overtake that.

I would like to see a few runs with the proper gear.

If you look at the same set of videos, the m3 walks a 996 gt3 which is rated simiilar to a 997.2s

[DylanMckay]

m3 v. 997s

m3 walks the gt3 996 mk 1

So what the concencus seems to be is

m3> 997.1 or .2
m3>997.1 m3<997.2
m3<997 GT3.1 and .2

*m3>996 gt3.1
m3< 996 gt3.2 (a few vids display this clearly)

I love the gt3 and porsche but to me its still pretty darn impressive for a sport coupe like the m3 to really hang or beat a dedicated sports car in the form of the 911. Cut it how you will, for the price, comfort and "sedan" version I think the m3 really is a pretty amazing machine.

[KKM3]

Lol

[gthal]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgbDjUHIvXQ&featureI love the gt3 and porsche but to me its still pretty darn impressive for a sport coupe like the m3 to really hang or beat a dedicated sports car in the form of the 911. Cut it how you will, for the price, comfort and "sedan" version I think the m3 really is a pretty amazing machine.

The M3 can "hang" with a lot of cars more expensive but it also gets beat by cars less expensive. Also, you place WAY too much emphasis on straight line speed IMO. A 997.2S or GT3 of any recent variant are not meant to be dragsters (nor is the M3). They are well rounded track/sports cars and if money isn't an object are better than an M3. If the "fastest" car was always the "best" car then a Ferrari 458 would not be as "good" as some other cars today that we all know would not hold a candle to the 458.

Having said that, I absolutely agree that the M3 is an amazing performance car for the price and practicality as we all know. But if you value straight line speed... which this entire thread is about... there are better options than an M3 for the same/less money.

[pride355]

Originally Posted by KKM3

Lol your numbers are a little bit biased. First of all, your comparing the heaviest 911 to the lightest m3. Good luck finding an m3 that weighs 3500 pounds. My 911 weighs 3200lbs and I have a pretty good amount of options.

Well, my 11 E92 M3 ZCP equipped w/DKG, i-drive, navi, leather, Hi-Fi (676) 80% filled tank weights 1580 kg~3476 lbs. I have BMW Performance seats which save 15 kg~33 lbs and Akra. Slip-on saves another 14 kg~31 lbs.

I used to have 07 997.1 Carrera S coupe 6MT and my M3 DKG is definately faster than my ex Carrera S, especially after 140 km/h. I had a roll with my friend's 997.1 Carrera S coupe tiptronik and I was faster than him significally.
BUT if you put the 997.2 Carrera S PDK into equation, it will be faster than E92 M3 DKG. 997.2 Carrera S 6MT may also be faster than E92 M3 DKG but it will be close.

However, GT3 is in another league. There is no contest here.

[DylanMckay]

Originally Posted by gthal

The M3 can "hang" with a lot of cars more expensive but it also gets beat by cars less expensive. Also, you place WAY too much emphasis on straight line speed IMO. A 997.2S or GT3 of any recent variant are not meant to be dragsters (nor is the M3). They are well rounded track/sports cars and if money isn't an object are better than an M3. If the "fastest" car was always the "best" car then a Ferrari 458 would not be as "good" as some other cars today that we all know would not hold a candle to the 458.

Having said that, I absolutely agree that the M3 is an amazing performance car for the price and practicality as we all know. But if you value straight line speed... which this entire thread is about... there are better options than an M3 for the same/less money.

Why does someone always have to chime in about "the m3 is not a straight line speed car... etc etc" I understand that and that is why I tried to eliminate this type of response by saying up front in a "drag" race. Neither the porsche or the m3 is a dragster so who cares-the point is comparing two "non-drag straight line" cars in a straight line.

90 percent of people on here push the car by far more often in a straight line than anything else so its relevent to anyone who has an interest in the two.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

In a nutshell (and finally):

M3 beats up on 997.1
Very minor advantage to M3 against the 997S1. Take ten of each, and the M3 will win, say, eight races.
Heads up with 997.2 (see Car & Driver 2009 comparo between M3 and the 997.2, each with the automatic)
Loses to 997S2

Gets killed by either version of the GT3
Also gets beat by any of the new 991-model 911s

From a dead stop, the Porsches have the advantage, as long as the P-car driver is willing to abuse the machinery - think massive axle tramp. With a more merciful launch by the Porsche driver, the M3 does a bunch better.

By the way, the M3 does not disgrace itself on a road course against the 911s. With novices aboard, the M3 will beat up on everything except the GT3s, and even with experienced track rats, the M3 will more or less hold its own against everything except the 997S2 - and of course the new 991s.

Bruce

Once again Bruce you nailed it... Couldn't have sait it better myself.

Dave

[gthal]

Originally Posted by DylanMckay

Why does someone always have to chime in about "the m3 is not a straight line speed car... etc etc" I understand that and that is why I tried to eliminate this type of response by saying up front in a "drag" race. Neither the porsche or the m3 is a dragster so who cares-the point is comparing two "non-drag straight line" cars in a straight line.

90 percent of people on here push the car by far more often in a straight line than anything else so its relevent to anyone who has an interest in the two.

Because you are comparing how capable a car is based on straight line speed and making conclusions based on that. Therefore, my point was if straight line speed is that important to you and the factor that matters most in evaluating a car, then neither car is the best choice. The M3 is really not that fast in a straight line compared to many others.... it is fast but there are LOTS of cars that are as fast or faster. You always this grumpy?