E9x M3 LAP TIMES (Road Course)

[Sleeper519]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Car: F80 6spd manual
Track: VIR Full
Best Lap time: 2:06.6 (Harry's Laptimer)
Tires: OEM 19's RE71R 255/275
Brakes: pagid rs 29
Suspension: HR Springs. Stock front alignment, bars and shocks.
Engine: DP, stock tune and exhaust.

New M3s are F ing amazing. MUCH easier to put the power down (even with more torque), hardly any understeer with stock camber from factory unlike our cars, lighter, more nimble and stock brakes (feel) are almost as good as my 911. BMW has this car done RIGHT! Realize this is an E9X forum but delta between E46 and E9X seemed profound. This is equally impressive if not more. Not getting a 991S anymore

Lutfy, great lap mate! The F80 definitely has the top speed advantage on the straights. Good stuff on stock rubber. Did you trade in the E90?

My favorite thing at VIR is entering the climbing esses at 125+!

Can't wait to get back there Nov. 9-10 with TrackDaze. I have yet to take advantage of the expanded track-out at Nascar and Oak Tree...

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

If you want a technical discussion of the merit of each engine and the different driving style requires to get the most out of each, that's fine and such is the purpose of this thread after all. But judging from your response, this is just a piss match that you are trying to win whatever ways you can. And really, I find it hilarious that "an expert" and "pioneer" like you insists on the importance of power mods, while still running awful street tires and sub standard and even stock brake pads on heavy and powerful cars like ours.

You know it's just deja vu for me. You remind me so much of Vasil aka Vasillalov on E90post. Local guy like you, started writing junk on here about how the 335I has no issues because he did autocross, and saw no problems. I invited him to gingerman with me and Klammer, were we ran, and I showed him the ropes. His car had limp mode, and temp issues, and he admitted that I was right. A month later me and Klammer meet him again at Gingerman, where he has now promoted himself to intermediate. I advised him against this move, but he told me that he was fine, and would run black hawk farms next. I again warned him about BHF, and told him he was better off in novice. He rebuffed me, and ended up wrapping his car around a tree at BHF. After that, he never tracked his 335I again.

Looking at your youtube channel, with your fast rise (under a year) from kiddie autocross to running stellar times at the track with brake, suspension and tire mods that mask your rookie mistakes, I just have the feeling that I've been through this before. You can actually just read all this stuff on E90post, along with my exchange with Cadaver25.
You trolls are all the same. Here's some advice. Since you are such an expert 335I driver, why don't you post your times on the E90post track time thread?: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=627704&page=7 or post anything at all on your section. Why come here and hijack our thread? Oh, and I loved your video of the limp mode problems you were having at gingerman! Oh, and your stellar 1:53 with FBO at that track. So good to know that before tires, suspension and brakes you are 3 seconds slower than me at that track.

Don't bother answering too. I'm done with you're trolling, and I will never again respond to your post. I won't run into you at any track, don't worry, I don't hang out with kids.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Looking at your youtube channel, with your fast rise (under a year) from kiddie autocross to running stellar times at the track with brake, suspension and tire mods that mask your rookie mistakes, I just have the feeling that I've been through this before. You can actually just read all this stuff on E90post, along with my exchange with Cadaver25.
You trolls are all the same. Here's some advice. Since you are such an expert 335I driver, why don't you post your times on the E90post track time thread?: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...amp;amp;page=7 or post anything at all on your section. Why come here and hijack our thread? Oh, and I loved your video of the limp mode problems you were having at gingerman! Oh, and your stellar 1:53 with FBO at that track. So good to know that before tires, suspension and brakes you are 3 seconds slower than me at that track.

Don't bother answering too. I'm done with you're trolling, and I will never again respond to your post. I won't run into you at any track, don't worry, I don't hang out with kids.

My 1:53 at gingerman was my first time ever on a road course in any car after I got sick with autox which frankly I am no good at and neither has the patience for (and the lousy events that my local BMWCCA chapter put together doesn't help either). And I, as "a kiddie with no experience", came within 3 seconds of your "lap record" with similar mods and I did a 1:47 at gingerman only second time I was there last year, before the coilovers, e85, radiator and oil cooler and all the go fast mods you mentioned. Don't want to point out the obvious, but what does that say about your driving? I am not the only one here who is seriously unimpressed by your "record" lap times, whether it is at Gingerman or Road America. And for the longest time you think sub 2:40 at Road America is impossible with any E9x... Come on... Just because you an awful person with and without a steering wheel, doesn't mean everyone else is cheating laws of nature here.

PID is bad, lol ok, where did you get that idea from. Complain about overheating limp with stock cooling and letting the engine rev to the redline for the entire session, argh...? 30FF and 30FC because you have a poorly adjusted WGDC from you Cobb or faulty boost solenoid on your super high milage car. Man, come on...

335i isn't the easiest car to make it fully track capable, no deny about that. But this car has way too much sentimental value to me after this many years with it, and that's why I spend all the effort on making it a better and more enjoyable car than it was designed to be. It seems like you picked up some bad information over the years and has been convinced by them ever since that. But hey, at least you are enjoying your current car, so I wasn't going to judge you on that. But spreading false information like you have written the ten commandments on "thou shalt not track N54" every chance you can get is just sad and pointless...

Anyway, best if we just ignore each others on this thread for the sake of everyone else here. But please say hi if you ever see my car on track, and don't forget to check your mirror and give me a point by when I lap you. My advice to you is to focus on your own driving and reconsider the priority of your mods if you are serious about this hobby, and again, less time on passing judgement on others.

Good luck...

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

Lutfy, great lap mate! The F80 definitely has the top speed advantage on the straights. Good stuff on stock rubber. Did you trade in the E90?

My favorite thing at VIR is entering the climbing esses at 125+!

Can't wait to get back there Nov. 9-10 with TrackDaze. I have yet to take advantage of the expanded track-out at Nascar and Oak Tree...

Hey buddy, no I didnt trade it in. I had a friend of mine let me borrow his car for a few laps, was able to pull 3 in before we got black flagged.

It will take a fair bit to modify the E90 to get comparable times that what you would in a stock F8X.. I actually loved the way this car felt.

This car enters the esses at 127MPH which amazes me!! My best time in the E9X on R comps, and camber, you can see F80 was faster all around in grip and putting the power down territory. The extreme right is my 997S on street tires (not a bad car on track but I like it better for date nights).

Notice the shift points in red (F80) vs DCT in E90 (blue). I prefer the DCT (flame suit on, its just my opinion).



Test drive one mate, I am in love with the F80!! Be curious what you think given your track experience.

Lutfy

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Hey buddy, no I didnt trade it in. I had a friend of mine let me borrow his car for a few laps, was able to pull 3 in before we got black flagged.

It will take a fair bit to modify the E90 to get comparable times that what you would in a stock F8X.. I actually loved the way this car felt.

This car enters the esses at 127MPH which amazes me!! My best time in the E9X on R comps, and camber, you can see F80 was faster all around in grip and putting the power down territory. The extreme right is my 997S on street tires (not a bad car on track but I like it better for date nights).



Test drive one mate, I am in love with the F80!! Be curious what you think given your track experience.

Lutfy

F80 got some serious grunt looking from the data you show here. But it is interesting to see 997 can more or less hold its own in he cornering speed despite the massive tire disadvantage. I always think the Carrera could always do with a bit of extra power, since the chassis is more than capable of handling them.

Curious about your thoughts about the 991.2 C2 and C2S with the new turbo engines. Most guys at Rennlist are massively opposed of it, but frankly, very few C2 and C2S owner actually track their cars... Kind of deciding what car to get after I am done with E9x, so it would be refreshing to hear some opinions from a guy like you.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

F80 got some serious grunt looking from the data you show here. But it is interesting to see 997 can more or less hold its own in he cornering speed despite the massive tire disadvantage. I always think the Carrera could always do with a bit of extra power, since the chassis is more than capable of handling them.

Curious about your thoughts about the 991.2 C2 and C2S with the new turbo engines. Most guys at Rennlist are massively opposed of it, but frankly, very few C2 and C2S owner actually track their cars... Kind of deciding what car to get after I am done with E9x, so it would be refreshing to hear some opinions from a guy like you.

Very very subjective. 911 is never a logical decision but an emotional one, its the car you can get married in, have your first born in. I am very passionate about that car. BUT I love the M3 dearly. This is not a car to me but a marque. A marque which allowed me to integrate into the American culture since I joined the BMWCCA Club in the 90s in college. I made lots of friends, found business partners to work with, found immediate friends in various cities so my loyalty goes towards BMW based on this (again not logical).

If you close your eyes and listen to your heart, in a brisk of a second, you will have your answer. The fact that people compare M3 to the 911 is actually a compliment to the M3 meaning its THAT good!

On the track, very different machines. I dont know, I couldnt answer so ended up with both. one is a street car which you can track, the other is a track car dumbed down for the street. Sorry couldnt help you in this dept, dont listen to ANYONE or any post on the forum. Sit, hold the wheel, FEEL and drive the car... you will be able to create your own history. Opinions are like you know what.

I am in love with the F80 so its a question of time am going to part with the E90 but not selling the 911. The Lotus Cup car will be listed for sale in due time too.

Lutfy

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Very very subjective. 911 is never a logical decision but an emotional one, its the car you can get married in, have your first born in. I am very passionate about that car. BUT I love the M3 dearly. This is not a car to me but a marque. A marque which allowed me to integrate into the American culture since I joined the BMWCCA Club in the 90s in college. I made lots of friends, found business partners to work with, found immediate friends in various cities so my loyalty goes towards BMW based on this (again not logical).

If you close your eyes and listen to your heart, in a brisk of a second, you will have your answer. The fact that people compare M3 to the 911 is actually a compliment to the M3 meaning its THAT good!

On the track, very different machines. I dont know, I couldnt answer so ended up with both. one is a street car which you can track, the other is a track car dumbed down for the street. Sorry couldnt help you in this dept, dont listen to ANYONE or any post on the forum. Sit, hold the wheel, FEEL and drive the car... you will be able to create your own history. Opinions are like you know what.

I am in love with the F80 so its a question of time am going to part with the E90 but not selling the 911. The Lotus Cup car will be listed for sale in due time too.

Lutfy

I guess this is as good of an answer that I can get, lol. But what you said pretty much made my decision to get a 911 down the line. I guess there is more to just raw performance and cold hard laptimes for cars like these.

[jakob66]

Quote from the F forum:
Originally Posted by jakob66

Sorry, that doesn't help. Just tell Than to go in Harry's Laptimer into 'Analysis'
then 'Lap List' then select your fastest lap and on the right upper menu you can 'Challenge' that lap with your name. Once done it will be visible to load in 'available challenges' for everybody under VIR challenges.
I really want to understand and learn where you made up those 2.5secs as on both straights your F M3 was not faster than my E92 M3, at least not on Saturday. I'm just curious
...and say hello to Than, enjoyed riding with you all.
Thanks!!


Submitted. Please share your analysis, be very curious myself too.
Look forward and thanks in advance.
Lutfy



Lutfy
Your lap is not posted in Harry's Challenges. Did you talk with Than how to do this?
Let me know if I can help. He can PM me directly.

[Greg S]

TWS CCW
Date: 10-17-15
Lap time: 1:49.057(TT3 record, traffic in T1/2, best rolling lap was a 1:48.797)
Car: 2008 BMW M3 DCT
Total vehicle weight with driver: 3501 lbs(100lbs overweight)
Wheel horsepower: 376WHP
Tire size and model: 295/30/18 Hoosier A7
Estimated ambient temperature: 80*
Notes: MCS double adjustable remote reservoir, all solid/spherical bushings/bearings, PFC front BBK, mostly stripped rear interior, 1 race seat, I/H/E, tune, pullies.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Very very subjective. 911 is never a logical decision but an emotional one, its the car you can get married in, have your first born in. I am very passionate about that car. BUT I love the M3 dearly. This is not a car to me but a marque. A marque which allowed me to integrate into the American culture since I joined the BMWCCA Club in the 90s in college. I made lots of friends, found business partners to work with, found immediate friends in various cities so my loyalty goes towards BMW based on this (again not logical).

If you close your eyes and listen to your heart, in a brisk of a second, you will have your answer. The fact that people compare M3 to the 911 is actually a compliment to the M3 meaning its THAT good!

On the track, very different machines. I dont know, I couldnt answer so ended up with both. one is a street car which you can track, the other is a track car dumbed down for the street. Sorry couldnt help you in this dept, dont listen to ANYONE or any post on the forum. Sit, hold the wheel, FEEL and drive the car... you will be able to create your own history. Opinions are like you know what.

I am in love with the F80 so its a question of time am going to part with the E90 but not selling the 911. The Lotus Cup car will be listed for sale in due time too.

Lutfy

This was beautifully poetic, even if you did not intend it to be so.

[roastbeef]

i ran a personal best of 1:36:345 at willow springs this weekend. only suspension mods are camber plates at -2.5. 275/35 NT01 tires and essex ap brakes up front.

i still have some work to do. i would really like to go south of 1:30.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i ran a personal best of 1:36:345 at willow springs this weekend. only suspension mods are camber plates at -2.5. 275/35 NT01 tires and essex ap brakes up front.

i still have some work to do. i would really like to go south of 1:30.

Shouldn't be a problem...once you add blower, full aero, R comps and do a little weight reduction.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

335i isn't the easiest car to make it fully track capable, no deny about that. But this car has way too much sentimental value to me after this many years with it, and that's why I spend all the effort on making it a better and more enjoyable car than it was designed to be.

That is half of the fun.

Isn't there a dude with an e90 335i track build? Turbo Mike or something like that? My buddy has a 135i that doesn't limp on track neither but it is modded so it can definitely work.

Now, back to lap times!

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by okusa

Shouldn't be a problem...once you add blower, full aero, R comps and do a little weight reduction.

not possible with just balls?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Greg S

Total vehicle weight with driver: 3501 lbs(100lbs overweight)

I am 250 pounds over weight then

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by okusa

Shouldn't be a problem...once you add blower, full aero, R comps and do a little weight reduction.

i'm staying NA.

i'm going to be looking into aero, but i want it to be detachable so the car looks stock when not at the track.

the car does need to lose weight, but its expensive to do and still look good. i'm not ready to go full racecar- not in the near future. i'm 220 and slim, so nothing to lose there. seats are likely going to happen. i have to brace myself with my left foot against the foot rest to stay in the seat.

i'm still ironing out my consistency through certain corners. i need work at turn 3, but my 4-5 combo is decent. i finally figured out my turn 6 line to be on the gas pretty good without upsetting the balance of the car. i'm comfortable in 8-9. my times are consistent, but i'm leaving a lot on the table in reference to lap times as the car sits now.

mods on the list (some are going to have an extended wait);
-seats
-solid subframe/diff bushings
-dinan differential
-jrz coils
-aero

[okusa]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

mods on the list (some are going to have an extended wait);
-seats
-solid subframe/diff bushings
-dinan differential
-jrz coils
-aero

Not convinced all that will get you sub 1:30 but I'd love to see it!

[roastbeef]

challenge accepted.

[redpriest]

Gotta try out those camber plates. Corded my left driver tire along the outside portion of the tread after all those hard right hand turns! My best times this weekend were:

'11 E92 M3 ZCP DCT
Track/Course: Buttonwillow CW13
Best Lap Time: 2:06.55
Brake Pads: AP Racing Radi-CAL BBK front (CP9660)/rear(CP5040) - Ferodo DS1.11
Tires (Size & Model): 275/275 Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R
Suspension: Stock
Other Mods: Dinan front anti-roll bar (middle setting), Macht Schnell Stage 2 intake, BPM Stage II tune (8600 RPM limit), BPM DCT tune, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust (full), Castrol SRF React brake fluid

'11 E92 M3 ZCP DCT
Track/Course: Willow Springs International Raceway (Big Willow)
Best Lap Time: 1:38.62
Brake Pads: AP Racing Radi-CAL BBK front (CP9660)/rear(CP5040) - Ferodo DS1.11
Tires (Size & Model): 275/275 Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R
Suspension: Stock
Other Mods: Dinan front anti-roll bar (middle setting), Macht Schnell Stage 2 intake, BPM Stage II tune (8600 RPM limit), BPM DCT tune, Akrapovic Evolution exhaust (full), Castrol SRF React brake fluid

Need to upgrade driver mod - leaving lots on the table with all of these mods. Was nice to finally run Willow Springs without being crippled - 2nd time here.

[roastbeef]

the camber plates at -2.5 made a noticeable difference in turn-in. the car wanted to rotate even more as i let off the throttle, which helped with my confidence in 8-9.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

the camber plates at -2.5 made a noticeable difference in turn-in. the car wanted to rotate even more as i let off the throttle, which helped with my confidence in 8-9.

I got down to 1:33 on stock suspension and brake pads
1:32 with kw and bbk. Both on rs3.
1:30 definitely possible with the right tires and no aero maybe below

I ended up with 3.2 camber up front and 2.2 rear

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TheKosherStogie

I got down to 1:33 on stock suspension and brake pads
1:32 with kw and bbk. Both on rs3.
1:30 definitely possible with the right tires and no aero maybe below

I ended up with 3.2 camber up front and 2.2 rear

That's encouraging. I can't wait to see the times you get in that viper.