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      03-03-2018, 12:10 AM   #1
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Idling Problems

Over the past few months my car has idled poorly. I have experienced: aggressively bouncing idle (both after getting gas and on other occasions), stalling (only after getting gas) and small dips in idle (550-500rpm) that make the car vibrate. Last time I got gas my the car idled extremely rough and went into limp mode after being turned on, but was totally fine after restarting the car.

One of my o2 sensors went bad and was replaced (the other has not been changed) but did not fix the problem. I pulled the codes from the limp mode incident last time I got gas and had had 18 in total: 2B4E, 2B41-2B49, and 2B35-2B35-(the code for this that applies to cylinder 8). We also looked at logs and noted that the car is idling rich, but AFRs are totally normal while driving.

Based on what I have already read, possible issues are: idle control valve, low pressure fuel sensor, high pressure fuel sensor or fuel tank breather valve. I would greatly appreciated any suggestions or advice. Thanks!
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      03-03-2018, 12:25 AM   #2
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It was the breather valve for me. Changed it out two days ago and my idle has been perfect since. I got the part from FCP Euro.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products?utf8=✓&keywords=BMW+Fuel+Tank+Vent+Valve+-+Genuine+BMW+13907838281

Annoying problem while fueling https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446904
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      03-03-2018, 01:34 AM   #3
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Fuel tank breather valve does not throw codes. If your the car is throwing codes I doubt that is the issue...
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      03-03-2018, 08:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscarrol View Post
Fuel tank breather valve does not throw codes. If your the car is throwing codes I doubt that is the issue...
Mine threw an Evap code of sorts. That was months ago, so I can't remember, but it can throw a code. Not saying the valve itself is putting out a code, but the effects it creates can.
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      03-03-2018, 08:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOF-M3 View Post
It was the breather valve for me. Changed it out two days ago and my idle has been perfect since. I got the part from FCP Euro.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products?utf8=✓&keywords=BMW+Fuel+Tank+Vent+Valve+-+Genuine+BMW+13907838281

Annoying problem while fueling https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446904
Got my breather last week $78 from Tischer (getbmwparts)
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      03-03-2018, 08:38 AM   #6
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Had the same symptoms as have many other ppl replaced the breather valve and its fine now. If youve gone into limp mode it possible you have something else wrong along with the breather
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      03-03-2018, 11:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
Mine threw an Evap code of sorts. That was months ago, so I can't remember, but it can throw a code. Not saying the valve itself is putting out a code, but the effects it creates can.
Hmm... Mine never threw a code and that is why it took so long for the dealer to figure out the problem. I found the thread on this forum and that is the only reason it was fixed!

And as ETJ point out, don't recall anyone with the breather valve issue experiencing limp mode. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, just don't recall...
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      03-04-2018, 12:24 AM   #8
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I have basically the same symptoms but no codes. I bought the breather valve, new plugs, 2x TAs and am considering ICV. If I'm already in there, I might as well do some preventative maintenance.

Looking forward to knowing if the breather valve solved your problem. ICV, as I understand it, would be throwing codes so I'm thinking of skipping that one. They aren't cheap
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      03-04-2018, 12:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3 View Post
One of my o2 sensors went bad and was replaced (the other has not been changed) but did not fix the problem. I pulled the codes from the limp mode incident last time I got gas and had had 18 in total: 2B4E, 2B41-2B49, and 2B35-2B35-(the code for this that applies to cylinder 8). We also looked at logs and noted that the car is idling rich, but AFRs are totally normal while driving.
Before I changed cylinder head cover, spark plug, and ignition coil. Sometimes I got CEL (reduced power) during Cold Start with 20 error codes.

Now I have only 9 (2B42 to 2B4E).
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      03-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #10
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Thanks everyone for the responses! It seems like fuel tank breather valve is my logical starting point, I will replace that in the next few weeks and post an update once I do.

Based on this thread I am also going to check for a pre-o2 sensor exhaust leak as these symptoms seem somewhat similar to mine.
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      03-04-2018, 03:44 PM   #11
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Had this also with fluctuating idle (no stalling though).

Changed the fuel tank breather valve first and that solved the issue 99%. I have still experienced the bouncing idle upon cold start a handful of times in the year since, which I attribute to the idle control valve. Considering having that replaced but it's not a big deal right now (yet).

FYI - in some states the ICV is covered under emissions warranty up to 70k!

Start with the breather valve
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      03-04-2018, 06:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apjr09 View Post
Had this also with fluctuating idle (no stalling though).

Changed the fuel tank breather valve first and that solved the issue 99%. I have still experienced the bouncing idle upon cold start a handful of times in the year since, which I attribute to the idle control valve. Considering having that replaced but it's not a big deal right now (yet).

FYI - in some states the ICV is covered under emissions warranty up to 70k!

Start with the breather valve
Do you know what states cover ICV? I called an SA at my local dealer and he had no knowledge of this issue
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      03-04-2018, 06:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by apjr09 View Post
Had this also with fluctuating idle (no stalling though).

Changed the fuel tank breather valve first and that solved the issue 99%. I have still experienced the bouncing idle upon cold start a handful of times in the year since, which I attribute to the idle control valve. Considering having that replaced but it's not a big deal right now (yet).

FYI - in some states the ICV is covered under emissions warranty up to 70k!

Start with the breather valve
Do you know what states cover ICV? I called an SA at my local dealer and he had no knowledge of this issue
Being a Hoosier you are not covered. If you had been a Bruin then you would be. Unless someone says I'm wrong then I believe I am correct. But I'm only going by memory as I didn't feel like actually googling it but I did want to get my Hoosier/Bruin joke in so I figured now was as good a time as any.
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      03-04-2018, 09:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOF-M3 View Post
Being a Hoosier you are not covered. If you had been a Bruin then you would be. Unless someone says I'm wrong then I believe I am correct. But I'm only going by memory as I didn't feel like actually googling it but I did want to get my Hoosier/Bruin joke in so I figured now was as good a time as any.
I appreciate the joke and the tip! The car was bought in CT, registered in NY and will be residing in Utah starting this summer so I may still have a chance to get this covered.
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      03-07-2018, 02:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOF-M3 View Post
Being a Hoosier you are not covered. If you had been a Bruin then you would be. Unless someone says I'm wrong then I believe I am correct. But I'm only going by memory as I didn't feel like actually googling it but I did want to get my Hoosier/Bruin joke in so I figured now was as good a time as any.
I appreciate the joke and the tip! The car was bought in CT, registered in NY and will be residing in Utah starting this summer so I may still have a chance to get this covered.
Did you ever figure it out as to what the extended warranty is? As stated earlier I think California gets even more time/mileage than the rest of us. I am hoping you have found the answer you needed.
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      03-18-2018, 10:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOF-M3 View Post
Did you ever figure it out as to what the extended warranty is? As stated earlier I think California gets even more time/mileage than the rest of us. I am hoping you have found the answer you needed.
Sorry! Was out of the country and haven't gotten anything done with the car. I am going to call the BMW SA that handled my PPI (dealership in CT - sees a lot more M cars than IN) and see if I can get any color on this warranty situation. I will post any info I get.

I drove the car for the first time in over a week today and it exhibited more odd behavior. It idled unevenly and nearly stalled several times while on a quarter tank of gas, then idled completely fine after I filled it with gas (entirely contradicts fuel tank breather valve).

This issue seems to be correlated to outside temperatures (if this is even possible?); on cold days my car idles relatively well, but today and during the limp mode incident it was ~60 degrees. I will dig into this more during the week and report back with what I find.
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      03-19-2018, 03:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOF-M3 View Post
Being a Hoosier you are not covered. If you had been a Bruin then you would be. Unless someone says I'm wrong then I believe I am correct. But I'm only going by memory as I didn't feel like actually googling it but I did want to get my Hoosier/Bruin joke in so I figured now was as good a time as any.
Hahaha! Thanks Boof for a lovely morning laugh. Needed that on a monday on my way to office.. 😊
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      03-21-2018, 06:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3 View Post
Sorry! Was out of the country and haven't gotten anything done with the car. I am going to call the BMW SA that handled my PPI (dealership in CT - sees a lot more M cars than IN) and see if I can get any color on this warranty situation. I will post any info I get.

I drove the car for the first time in over a week today and it exhibited more odd behavior. It idled unevenly and nearly stalled several times while on a quarter tank of gas, then idled completely fine after I filled it with gas (entirely contradicts fuel tank breather valve).

This issue seems to be correlated to outside temperatures (if this is even possible?); on cold days my car idles relatively well, but today and during the limp mode incident it was ~60 degrees. I will dig into this more during the week and report back with what I find.
Mine typically idles without any real concern with colder temperatures, but certainly is worse with higher temperatures. Drove the car to work today (mid 30s to upper 40s was today's spectrum) and had no issues. It was mid/high 60s last time I drove it a handful of days ago (welcome to Georgia!) and it was all over the place.

My shop did a smoke test and determined it was the fuel breather valve (and I have a SES light on that is for evap). I have yet to get it fixed just because I drive the car infrequently as of late and it hasn't really affected me aside from the 1 in 15 times it starts to idle a little goofy.

NEED TO GET IT FIXED. NEED TO FIND THE TIME.
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      03-21-2018, 09:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3 View Post
Sorry! Was out of the country and haven't gotten anything done with the car. I am going to call the BMW SA that handled my PPI (dealership in CT - sees a lot more M cars than IN) and see if I can get any color on this warranty situation. I will post any info I get.

I drove the car for the first time in over a week today and it exhibited more odd behavior. It idled unevenly and nearly stalled several times while on a quarter tank of gas, then idled completely fine after I filled it with gas (entirely contradicts fuel tank breather valve).

This issue seems to be correlated to outside temperatures (if this is even possible?); on cold days my car idles relatively well, but today and during the limp mode incident it was ~60 degrees. I will dig into this more during the week and report back with what I find.
Mine typically idles without any real concern with colder temperatures, but certainly is worse with higher temperatures. Drove the car to work today (mid 30s to upper 40s was today's spectrum) and had no issues. It was mid/high 60s last time I drove it a handful of days ago (welcome to Georgia!) and it was all over the place.

My shop did a smoke test and determined it was the fuel breather valve (and I have a SES light on that is for evap). I have yet to get it fixed just because I drive the car infrequently as of late and it hasn't really affected me aside from the 1 in 15 times it starts to idle a little goofy.

NEED TO GET IT FIXED. NEED TO FIND THE TIME.
One hour fix.
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      03-22-2018, 01:47 PM   #20
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New Problem: I do not think it is related to my primary idling problem, but today my car greeted me with an SES light (P1411 - secondary air pump not working). I got this code a few months ago (confirmed the secondary air pump was working and cleared the code) but have not seen it since.

We are going through a bit of a cold streak here in Indiana and the car seems to be going to through a more aggressive cold cycle to compensate. I suspect some sort of small pre-o2 sensor exhaust leak (x-pipe gasket) is causing exhaust gas to escape and making the car think the secondary air pump is not working. It was equally cold the last time I got the code, which supports my theory.

Old Problem: I have yet to mention this one here, but last time my car was in the shop they ran logs and noted that I am running rich (not enough to throw a code) at idle and <20% throttle but AFRs are perfect with more throttle. Could this mean anything?

Update: The car is going into the shop tomorrow morning to get Vorshlag camber plates installed and have its plethora of problems examined.

TLDR: P1411 code this morning - we suspect leaking x pipe gasket. Car is running rich <20% throttle - does anyone know what this means?. Car going into shop tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for reading about all my problems!
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      03-22-2018, 01:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_M3 View Post
New Problem: I do not think it is related to my primary idling problem, but today my car greeted me with an SES light (P1411 - secondary air pump not working). I got this code a few months ago (confirmed the secondary air pump was working and cleared the code) but have not seen it since.

We are going through a bit of a cold streak here in Indiana and the car seems to be going to through a more aggressive cold cycle to compensate. I suspect some sort of small pre-o2 sensor exhaust leak (x-pipe gasket) is causing exhaust gas to escape and making the car think the secondary air pump is not working. It was equally cold the last time I got the code, which supports my theory.

Old Problem: I have yet to mention this one here, but last time my car was in the shop they ran logs and noted that I am running rich (not enough to throw a code) at idle and <20% throttle but AFRs are perfect with more throttle. Could this mean anything?

Update: The car is going into the shop tomorrow morning to get Vorshlag camber plates installed and have its plethora of problems examined.

TLDR: P1411 code this morning - we suspect leaking x pipe gasket. Car is running rich <20% throttle - does anyone know what this means?. Car going into shop tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for reading about all my problems!
Might be secondary air pump hose. Sometimes they crack and will throw a code happened to me a few years ago 10min fix
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      03-22-2018, 01:58 PM   #22
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Might be secondary air pump hose. Sometimes they crack and will throw a code happened to me a few years ago 10min fix
Did your code come and go or did it stay on?
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