e90 M3 vs IS-F: reliability and maintenance difference?

[robbiejones]

Looking for a daily driver and currently on the fence between the m3 w/ dct and IS-F. My budget is $35k, so I am looking at 08-09 m3s and IS-F's.

I am slightly biased towards the m3, but the reliability worries me. I have read the e9x M's are the most reliable M3s, but compared to the Toyota will it be problematic? I drive about 70 miles a day in stop and go traffic. I also guessing the ISF might get better mileage as well.

Is the m3 only 10% more fun to drive, but 50% less reliable? That's what car buddy told me difference is between the two.

Anyone here have experience with both?

Thanks!

[Thurman Murch]

M3 - I don't like transmission in the F

If you can find an E90M zcp with the DCT I recommend it

[BESTNDA416]

Had the ISF for my winter beater was great car and all but the m3 is hands down a lot better car to be in

[s85e90]

M3 is very reliable. But if youre concerned with gas run away. I spend over 100 a day in gas

[miringrains]

Originally Posted by s85e90

M3 is very reliable. But if youre concerned with gas run away. I spend over 100 a day in gas

Where the f*ck do you drive

[m3lvr]

A friend of mine drove the last gen IS-F for 4 years with no issues. I drove it too. It's a nice sporty car. But, it's no M3. Let me put it this way, I drove a 335i for 5 years b4 my M3. I wouldn't have traded the 335i for the IS-F. The M3 is in a different class from either. I had big turbos on my 335i outputting around 400hp. The M3s acceleration and cornering is still miles ahead of the 335i, let alone the IS-F.

Now, let's get to your maintenance, gas consumption, issues questions. Gas consumption, stop and go and city traffic you'll get 13mpg (w/ normal driving). You might get 19-20mpg on open highway. M3's mpg display overreports mpg's by 1-2mpgs. Maintenance, oil change is $200 at the dealer or $140 if you do it yourself. As far as issues, it's no Toyota. You'll have issues, I had to have my A/C condenser replaced ($2500) my differential replaced ($2500), etc. It's not a cheap car to have work done. The A/C condenser issues is prone to E9X series. I'm thinking, it probably happens mostly in hot climate areas. My differential was probably a one off, or the previous owner drove it like he stole it... Don't put too much stock on the rod bearing threads that you might come across, the S65 is a solid engine. People who pay $70K for a car and have issues with it tend to complain too much.

What else, if you want peace of mind, get 10 or 11 M3 that doesn't have the warranty expired and get a third party warranty to take care of any issues that might come up. Totalcare repair contract that I purchased b4 expiry of factory warranty paid for all my breakdown repairs. I know the backseats are tight in the E9x series but, I tell you, I couldn't fit in the back seat of the last gen IS-F. I'm 6' 3" and 220pds.

[sello]

I have had 2 of each car but back to were I belong in the M3. My isfs never came close to the ride/feel cornering ability of the m3 the isf def got better gas mileage.. When driving my isf. I was to often annoyed by the question hey is that a 250 or a 350? Heard this way to much!! No one has ever asked me if my m3 is a 328 or 335. Having 5 seats in my e90 compared to 4 in the isf actually was a big deal.. Btw I beat the crap outta all 4 cars with no problems.. I'm at 96k on my m3 and she's runs amazing!

[robbiejones]

Thank you for the feedback guys. I might be over thinking this but want to make sure I don't get overburdened by repairs. I can afford to purchase the car outright. However, $2500 here and $1200 there would quickly add up for me and cause a little stress with the wife.

13 MPG in the city is not that great considering I would use over 5 gallons of fuel a day. I could probably better justify if I had some corners in my commute, but I don't.

I have been shopping for an aftermarket warranty plan. Its tough to find one for the m3. My bank sells one for the Lexus, but excludes all M cars. Darn!

My heart wants the m3, but my wallet keeps worrying me.

Would you guys even choose a 328i over the Lexus? Seems like the ISF is not a true alternative to the m3.

Thanks for the help guys!

[SilentAttack]

U should get the ISF the M3 is a POS car anyways... Who here would drive one?

[Rupes]

Have you driven them both? This is really an apples to oranges comparison. When I drove the M3 for the first time I was sold before we even left the parking lot. If you don't experience the same feeling, then it may not be worth the extra money for you. I had an e92 328i and happened to really like it as well. It's probably not a bad compromise if you really want a reliable BMW that's still relatively efficient. The N/A inline 6 in the e92 is a great motor. I found I could mash the throttle often without breaking the speed limit immediately. In both cases, however, the Lexus will always be cheaper to repair and maintain.

[TrevorM3]

I personally wouldn't get such an old M, esp first year.

I would however, get the IS-F.

Shoot for a newer M.

For reliability i'm going with the F. No question.

[Rbembas_M3]

You got to be kidding me! A German made M3 over a
Jap made rice grinder… sorry no contest. I smoke an
“F” a couple of weeks ago on the back roads of north GA.
I DD my car 60 miles a day only problem is eating up rear
tires. My M3 is awesome accelerating away from the loser
and ducking and weaving when needed.

[Dougeefresh]

Originally Posted by Rbembas_M3

You got to be kidding me! A German made M3 over a
Jap made rice grinder… sorry no contest. I smoke an
“F” a couple of weeks ago on the back roads of north GA.
I DD my car 60 miles a day only problem is eating up rear
tires. My M3 is awesome accelerating away from the loser
and ducking and weaving when needed.

You mean "descendants of Nazi" made M3

[Z K]

The ISF is not in the same league. No manual transmission, no LSD and much softer car overall. The engine sounds pretty cool but otherwise it doesn't have much going for it. But reliability is a bit better. Its up to you.

ISF - less sporty, more reliable, personally i think it's a bit ugly too - the regular IS250/350 looks better

M3 - way more sporty, faster, still reliable but not as much as the ISF, nicer looking

I love Japanese sports cars having owned a lot of them in the past but in this comparison, I have to go M3. No contest at all!

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by robbiejones

Thank you for the feedback guys. I might be over thinking this but want to make sure I don't get overburdened by repairs. I can afford to purchase the car outright. However, $2500 here and $1200 there would quickly add up for me and cause a little stress with the wife.

13 MPG in the city is not that great considering I would use over 5 gallons of fuel a day. I could probably better justify if I had some corners in my commute, but I don't.

I have been shopping for an aftermarket warranty plan. Its tough to find one for the m3. My bank sells one for the Lexus, but excludes all M cars. Darn!

My heart wants the m3, but my wallet keeps worrying me.

Would you guys even choose a 328i over the Lexus? Seems like the ISF is not a true alternative to the m3.

Thanks for the help guys!

aside from the outright cost of the car, can you afford:

1. Insurance? (get M3 and ISF VINS off cars.com, call it in to your insurance for a price quote), please don't ask how much we pay for insurance, rates vary depending on your credit, driving history, and zip code.
2. gas @ 13 mpgs?
3. the tax on the purchase? Call you DMV or even local dealer in your zip code for a estimate. Here in SF CA, I pay 9% on purchase, then about $300 a year for renewal. Not sure if you have car-property tax type deal where you live.
4. $140/oil change, once or twice a year
5. cost of tires every 30k miles (about $1000-$1500)
6. $200 - $400 ad-hoc maintenance items like break pads & fluid, spark plug changes, etc, per year.

If you answer no to half of these questions, then, you probably can't afford this car.

For me, I don't even blink twice when I pay for items 1-6. I don't get ripped off, I shop for my insurance, and parts, do my own oil changes, etc, but maintenance and cost of ownership is not my major concern for this car.


hope this helps.

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by sello

I have had 2 of each car but back to were I belong in the M3. My isfs never came close to the ride/feel cornering ability of the m3 the isf def got better gas mileage.. When driving my isf. I was to often annoyed by the question hey is that a 250 or a 350? Heard this way to much!! No one has ever asked me if my m3 is a 328 or 335. Having 5 seats in my e90 compared to 4 in the isf actually was a big deal.. Btw I beat the crap outta all 4 cars with no problems.. I'm at 96k on my m3 and she's runs amazing!

I have not driven an IS-F, but I do know that most people cannot distinguish between a 328i or a M3 on the road. It's just a BMW to them. Only enthusiast will spot the difference naturally.

[thekurgan]

Around here, I only see women driving the IS models from Lexus; I wouldn't be able to tell them apart regarding the F model, aside from the ridiculous faux exhaust tips, wow.

[Thurman Murch]

I would say get an E90 335i m-sport w MPPK/MPE that has the N54

If I drive my S65 daily it's about 60 USD a day

Or get a gti/r32/golf RS400 or a focus RS or some fun hatchback

I abhor the F30

[bdaddylo]

Here's a real review from Car and Driver's 2011 Lightning Lap and not something from the Internet Einsteins on this forum. The pre-2011 models suffered from a poorly tuned suspension. Notice the ISF does come with a LSD and stock vs stock hangs nearly dead even with the M3. It even comes with Brembo 6 piston front and 2 piston rear. It may not be an M3, but probably the closest example to it plus better reliability.


Three years back, an IS F turned a less-than-impressive 3:14.0. We said then, “A little attention to springs and damping might make this eager contender a real champ,” as the stiffly sprung F zapped confidence in high-speed corners.

Boy, were we right. Lexus has since tweaked all suspension elements. Spring rates are down in the front and up in the rear, and there are larger anti-roll bars, stiffer subframe bushings, and longer bump stops, which effectively increase spring rates when the car is nearing its maximum roll angle. Lexus also lightened the front hubs and control arms and slapped a Torsen limited-slip differential in the rear axle. The result is BMW M3–matching performance around VIR (3:05.4). That’s heady company for Lexus to be keeping. Especially considering that the IS F weighs 3801 pounds (195 more than the M3) and makes only two additional horsepower, at 416.

Lexus also redesigned the gauges, enlarging the tachometer and relocating it to the center of the instrument binnacle. But it could have removed the thing altogether because we did not so much as peep at it: The IS F’s audible shift warning is plenty loud, even when you are wearing a helmet. While the alert is slightly obnoxious on public roads, it lets you keep your eyes up when driving on a track.

The old F rolled around on the track like a keel-less boat in gusting winds. The aforementioned updates quell this tendency and increase confidence. Our backside impressions are supported by numbers: The F exits sector two 13.1 mph quicker than before, at 109.1. Steering is communicative, and the chassis is set up for safe, moderate understeer, but vector adjustment is just a throttle tweak away—the torquey engine (371 pound-feet) can break the rear tires loose easily. The brakes are fantastic, too. The pedal might be a tad wooden (more pliant pine than hard oak), but the system remains fade-free after multiple laps of abuse, something none of the other large sedans could claim this year. The 180-degree character change performed by this Lexus gives us hope that Toyota can still make fun-to-drive cars. Now  where’s our Supra?

[thekurgan]

To Car & Driver (pliant pine vs hard oak? )

[Merlin_83]

Ah ! I have to chime in here. Just a year ago I was in the same boat, I had already found a nice ISF to purchase. But I buddy with a 335i insisted I drive an M3. I was like yeah,yeah...what ever. Well I did - and once I heard that engine, made the shifts with the 6 speed MT - I was hooked. Keep in mind though, I paid quite a bit (this was a year ago). My M3 had the comp package,and pretty much every option possible (besides extended leather).

The decision was purely by my 'soul' and not my logical pragmatic side of my brain. But soooo glad I went with M3.

Cheers,
Merlin

[Vanmarsenille]

Originally Posted by robbiejones

Looking for a daily driver and currently on the fence between the m3 w/ dct and IS-F. My budget is $35k, so I am looking at 08-09 m3s and IS-F's.

I am slightly biased towards the m3, but the reliability worries me. I have read the e9x M's are the most reliable M3s, but compared to the Toyota will it be problematic? I drive about 70 miles a day in stop and go traffic. I also guessing the ISF might get better mileage as well.

Is the m3 only 10% more fun to drive, but 50% less reliable? That's what car buddy told me difference is between the two.

Anyone here have experience with both?

Thanks!

Not to be disrespectful, but based on the info you provided, it sounds like you might be pushing the boat out, just to get an '08 M. Your chances of running into higher maintenance bills are obviously higher on a older car; even on a newer car, stuff can happen, and out of warranty, the M3 is not cheap to own.