Harrop twin screw sc for s65

[BPMSport]

Harrops similar system on the Audi RS4 platform generates 18+ psi boost if I recall correctly. So running this at 5.5 PSI is baby boost in terms of what that blower can supply. I think we'll really see some very nice hp numbers and torque for those that opt for 6.5 or 7.5psi, and perhaps insanity with a built motor and more boost.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Harrops similar system on the Audi RS4 platform generates 18+ psi boost if I recall correctly. So running this at 5.5 PSI is baby boost in terms of what that blower can supply. I think we'll really see some very nice hp numbers and torque for those that opt for 6.5 or 7.5psi, and perhaps insanity with a built motor and more boost.

Boost (PSI) is a measurement of pressure and is unrelated to air supply potential. Air supply potential is measured (usually) in Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM). Where's swamp2 to call BS on the plethora of errors by so-called experts when we need him?

Before anybody gets bent out of shape, note the smiley face.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by regular guy

Boost (PSI) is a measurement of pressure and is unrelated to air supply potential. Air supply potential is measured (usually) in Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM). Where's swamp2 to call BS on the plethora of errors by so-called experts when we need him?

Before anybody gets bent out of shape, note the smiley face.

I simply stated that blower itself is more than capable of running higher boost pressures if one should want to go that route. The Audi application is similar to the M3's in terms of engine size and max RPM and uses a similar charger, but the setup on the Audi platform runs much more boost.

Swamp has provided useful information for many people on here and I'm sure many appreciate his input on topics he's discussed. You don't find him provoking people unnecessarily which is refreshing to see.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I simply stated that blower itself is more than capable of running higher boost pressures if one should want to go that route. The Audi application is similar to the M3's in terms of engine size and max RPM and uses a similar charger, but the setup on the Audi platform runs much more boost.

I guess you don't quite get it because I see you're still mixing up two things that are technically quite different from each other. I tried.

Swamp has provided useful information for many people on here and I'm sure many appreciate his input on topics he's discussed. You don't find him provoking people unnecessarily which is refreshing to see.

That's the problem with the internet: sometimes humor doesn't come across very well. The joke (smiley face) in my comment was because I quoted something swamp has said maybe 10+ times to various engine experts in multiple bearing and oil threads. I guess you don't find that unnecessarily provocative.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by regular guy

I guess you don't quite get it because I see you're still mixing up two things that are technically quite different from each other. I tried.

I get that you are trying to make something much more technical out of a comment that was trying to illustrate a general idea.

Perhaps I should have said: Looking forward to what this kit puts down running slightly higher levels of boost.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I get that you are trying to make something much more technical out of a comment that was trying to illustrate a general idea.

Perhaps I should have said: Looking forward to what this kit puts down running slightly higher levels of boost.

I thought you liked technical accuracy and would want to know the difference. That's all.

[Jive]

Originally Posted by regular guy

I thought you liked technical accuracy and would want to know the difference. That's all.

Most of us like it; keep it coming.

[crispy tofu]

Originally Posted by regular guy

I guess you don't quite get it because I see you're still mixing up two things that are technically quite different from each other. I tried.



That's the problem with the internet: sometimes humor doesn't come across very well. The joke (smiley face) in my comment was because I quoted something swamp has said maybe 10+ times to various engine experts in multiple bearing and oil threads. I guess you don't find that unnecessarily provocative.

Originally Posted by regular guy

I thought you liked technical accuracy and would want to know the difference. That's all.

[QUOTE=regular guy;15795799]Boost (PSI) is a measurement of pressure and is unrelated to air supply potential. Air supply potential is measured (usually) in Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM). Where's swamp2 to call BS on the plethora of errors by so-called experts when we need him?

Regular Guy - you're coming across as a bully and antagonist. you may want to consider wording your posts to reflect what you really mean - if that's indeed the case. If you want to bully, keep posting as you have been.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by MRM55

Regular Guy - you're coming across as a bully and antagonist. you may want to consider wording your posts to reflect what you really mean - if that's indeed the case. If you want to bully, keep posting as you have been.

Odd that helping people who appreciate technical accuracy is consider bullying...but OK.

[Verify]

I disagree with RG on many many things, but no post in here so far has been to antagonize or "bully" - In fact, it seems the opposite.

As for the blower, does it move CFM? Sure, the current offerings flow what, 1150CFM? So that leads to what can the S65 handle? Highest available kit runs 8.5 PSI, as thats about all the rods and pistons can take. Who care how high they can go beyond what the motor can take.

What I DONT like, is the bleeding boost. M3's are designed and sought after for their overall performance- I have a gut feeling that boosting 6-8psi as early as the tvs does, is quite fun and just what the m3 needs, but if its tapering it off, well, drivability is going to be a trade-off.

Still would love to see a full dynograph with usual parameters- AFR and PSI.

Also, is the kit officially for sale? If not, why not, and when is the newest targeted release date?

[Beedub]

love this kit and the engine bay fitment and cleaness exceeds ANY of the other kits, including my Fave the evolve kit, incredible how oem it looks, and i love the use of the stock Airbox which is actually a very nice design stock, This has all the hallmarks of being a winner.

[Someone?]

Well yah, it can be measured in CFPM, but CF of air has not much to do with how many PSI over Atmospheric it is which is the force it pushs the extra air in.
You can have 1 million CFM, but if theres a fan moving a milliom CF on the other end then the pressure added is ZERO,So this is why you must know the added PSI.
I do understand our engines are Air Pumps, so how much air does our S65 Pump compared to the CFPM of the blower? the difference is the PAA or PSI.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by ibmike

Well yah, it can be measured in CFPM, but CF of air has not much to do with how many PSI over Atmospheric it is which is the force it pushs the extra air in.
You can have 1 million CFM, but if theres a fan moving a milliom CF on the other end then the pressure added is ZERO,So this is why you must know the added PSI.
I do understand our engines are Air Pumps, so how much air does our S65 Pump compared to the CFPM of the blower? the difference is the PAA or PSI.

These are good points.

I was with you all the way to the end. That's where I got lost on one detail. I've seen examples of the PSI go down after an exhaust change or XPipe change. I've always assumed the blower was still pumping the same air even though the PSI went down. If the guy already had the maximum allowed 8.5 PSI and 600 whp before the change, should he change the supercharger pulley to get back to 8.5 PSI and try to make more power?

[BPMSport]

You could, boost is more or less a measure of restriction at the end of the day. Like Ibmike said, an engine is basically a large air pump. With FI, camshaft timing comes into play a bit as valve overlap can change the composition of the cylinder charge. Changing to another pulley that matches the same boost level would more effectively show what the newer exhaust really gained (or lost). The engine is more efficient if it made more power at a lower boost level.

[Kosta1968]

In terms of street potential Im more interested in the torque figures in the 2-5krpm range than outright power I'll leave the whose got the most rwkw to the dyno queens.

It has always been my understanding that top mount blowers outperform all other forms of FI in terms of low down useable torque for the street. It certainly has been in the LS1-3 scene in Australia and Harrop has been the top provider of whipple and eaton gear for that.

Very excited about the street ability of the package, we have one M3 E92 owner in western australia who has the kit fitted. Looking forward to having a chat to him about his setup.

[Rajvosa]

Originally Posted by CON G

In terms of street potential Im more interested in the torque figures in the 2-5krpm range than outright power I'll leave the whose got the most rwkw to the dyno queens.

It has always been my understanding that top mount blowers outperform all other forms of FI in terms of low down useable torque for the street. It certainly has been in the LS1-3 scene in Australia and Harrop has been the top provider of whipple and eaton gear for that.

Very excited about the street ability of the package, we have one M3 E92 owner in western australia who has the kit fitted. Looking forward to having a chat to him about his setup.

hey Con, who s got the Harrop fitted??

[Kosta1968]

Actually I stuffed up I was thinking of chris but he's got a side mount hasn't he.

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by regular guy

These are good points.

I was with you all the way to the end. That's where I got lost on one detail. I've seen examples of the PSI go down after an exhaust change or XPipe change. I've always assumed the blower was still pumping the same air even though the PSI went down. If the guy already had the maximum allowed 8.5 PSI and 600 whp before the change, should he change the supercharger pulley to get back to 8.5 PSI and try to make more power?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how the S65 in stock form typically fails.

I'm still fairly new to the E9X platform, so I'm not certain what the failure mode is of the S65. If ringlands go first, then cylinder pressure is critical. If the connecting rods are the weak link, then there is a torque limit (physical strength limitation) of the rotating assembly.

Remember; an engine will not fail due to manifold pressure being too high, only if cylinder pressure is too high and/or if cylinder pressure rises too fast.

Manifold pressure is a variable that will inform cylinder pressure; however there are ways you can run high manifold pressures while keeping cylinder pressure under control, especially when we are talking increases of a few pounds per square inch. For example, you can increase manifold pressure and decrease cylinder pressure by retarding timing, while still increasing specific output. Or you can run a very high AKI fuel and increase manifold pressure without encountering pre-ignition. Or a combination of both. So if the S65 fails typically due to ringlands, with some choice tuning parameters and good fuel, the answer is 'Yes, you can run more'.

If there is a physical limitation to the rotating assembly, and the existing torque is approaching the strength limit, then I wouldn't try to make more without strengthening the components. With that said... there is a certain allure to running at the strength limit though... my other car has been running for 3 years above the 'forum estimated' torque limit of 700 lb-ft for the stock rods. Is it really a limit if you are able to surpass it??

... I'm still very interested to know what the blower RPM is with the Stage-1 kit. Since we know the power level at the current RPM, plotting the current blower RPM on the TVS1740 compressor map will answer the question of what the maximum power potential is with this blower... a more informed conversation piece compared to "I can't wait until they turn up the boost~ yo!"

[Rajvosa]

Originally Posted by CON G

Actually I stuffed up I was thinking of chris but he's got a side mount hasn't he.

yep his is Gintani set up. got me excited for a second there lol

[ndau]

I gather the kit is still some months away from a public release. I know there are test units in AUS which they are constantly updating and gathering data on. There's still some tweaking to occur before its a public release.

[Meff]

Originally Posted by ndau

I gather the kit is still some months away from a public release. I know there are test units in AUS which they are constantly updating and gathering data on. There's still some tweaking to occur before its a public release.

When you say "gather" - are you saying that you assume it is still months away from release, or that you know this to be true?

[Meff]

Originally Posted by CON G

In terms of street potential Im more interested in the torque figures in the 2-5krpm range than outright power I'll leave the whose got the most rwkw to the dyno queens.

+1 Fully with you on this.

What makes this kit so appealing is the low end grunt and the translation of this into day to day drivability.