Gustav's video of M3 with M-DCT tranny

man02195 · 04-15-2008, 08:36 PM

Other than being another AW coupe, this is some pretty excellent footage and commentary:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=117051

ybbiz34 · 04-15-2008, 08:38 PM

Nice!

Davinhci · 04-15-2008, 09:28 PM

great

e46e92love · 04-15-2008, 09:30 PM

Awesome, thanks for the post

enigma · 04-15-2008, 09:31 PM

The videos are basically verifying what we though we already knew. That is in the more agressive modes the next clutch is engaged much more quickly. The "feedback" being nothing more than an energy dump from flywheel to rear wheel.

The in lower modes the close the next clutch more slowly allowing the flywheel to dissipate energy without the spike in acceleration.

Interesting note on the clutch. Does anyone know how the durability of a wet clutch compares to a dry?

voltron1011 · 04-15-2008, 09:31 PM

Sweet!!!

ersin · 04-15-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma

Interesting note on the clutch. Does anyone know how the durability of a wet clutch compares to a dry?

I don't know but a wet clutch is supposed to dissipate heat better. Therefore, I believe it is safe to say that it should be just as durable, if not more so, than a dry clutch. This is a new transmission for BMW, so expect glitches. I don't think durability will suffer. I'd expect electronics/programming to be the weak link. Hopefully there will be none, but we'll see.

skierman64 · 04-15-2008, 09:44 PM

Wow, that's the most comprehensive video review to date. Very, very, good stuff. I will have my DCT car in the next few days. Those video reviews will be hard to beat.

If anyone has doubts about DCT, these videos should quell your apprehension.

hakaida442 · 04-15-2008, 09:48 PM

I got a headache from the shaky camera work

MDCTFTW · 04-15-2008, 09:58 PM

Holy shit ... down shifting on the freeway is going to be sick with DCT.

MDCTFTW · 04-15-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakaida442

I got a headache from the shaky camera work

Don't watch it ... LISTEN to it.

hakaida442 · 04-15-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDCTFTW

Don't watch it ... LISTEN to it.

too late.

MDCTFTW · 04-15-2008, 10:19 PM

Does DCT/SMG allow you to over rev the engine if you down shift too far?

enigma · 04-15-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDCTFTW

Does DCT/SMG allow you to over rev the engine if you down shift too far?

no, it would ignore (delay until safe?) such a shift.

MDCTFTW · 04-15-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma

no, it would ignore (delay until safe?) such a shift.

oh good cause I could see myself getting carried away with down shifting.

Saturn · 04-15-2008, 10:39 PM

Curious: based on these videos truly the only point to S5/S6 compared to S1 is feel, the jerkiness of the shift; the shift times seem to be the same. I was under the impression that especially at the track, smoother is better, so would it be a mistake to round the track in the higher S modes?

MDCTFTW · 04-15-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn

Curious: based on these videos truly the only point to S5/S6 compared to S1 is feel, the jerkiness of the shift; the shift times seem to be the same. I was under the impression that especially at the track, smoother is better, so would it be a mistake to round the track in the higher S modes?

I think in lower modes shift times are slower thus you get no NOS effect in both D and S. Maybe?

SpencerM3 · 04-15-2008, 10:47 PM

GOD that sound is AMAZING for stock!

T Bone · 04-15-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn

Curious: based on these videos truly the only point to S5/S6 compared to S1 is feel, the jerkiness of the shift; the shift times seem to be the same. I was under the impression that especially at the track, smoother is better, so would it be a mistake to round the track in the higher S modes?

What do you mean by shift time? In the slower modes, it will be interesting to know if the DCT is letting out the clutch slower and smoother.

So while the clutch switching will be quick, the modulation of the clutch might be slower on in S1-S3

Saturn · 04-15-2008, 10:51 PM

Shift time as in the amount of time it takes for the selected gear to engage after pulling the paddle. After what I saw, S1 and S5 both took the same amount of time to shift, but S5 provided what the commentators called 'feedback.' I can see why this feedback is desireable, and even preferrable in the driving experience, but as far as on the track performance, isn't smoother/less jerky better?

T Bone · 04-15-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturn

Shift time as in the amount of time it takes for the selected gear to engage after pulling the paddle. After what I saw, S1 and S5 both took the same amount of time to shift, but S5 provided what the commentators called 'feedback.' I can see why this feedback is desireable, and even preferrable in the driving experience, but as far as on the track performance, isn't smoother/less jerky better?

You haven't felt acceleration until you get a kick during gear shifts. My girlfriend has broken hair berettes during an upshift on SMG3. Looks like DCT is much smoother....

The discussion is whether the clutch switch time is the same for all modes and then is the DCT letting out the clutch at a slower rate in different modes. Or are they using some of the tranny fluid to absorb some of the kinetic energy in the slower modes?

I want to know how they do it.

Saturn · 04-15-2008, 11:17 PM

I had the pleasure of driving an M6 on an extended (4-days) test drive. To date, it is the single greatest driving experience I've had. (Minus the minor whiplash I had from the shifting)

As far as I saw in the video, and I think the commentator mentioned that the BMW literature confirms this: the shift times are in fact identical in all S modes; thus the variable between modes is only the amount of 'kick' felt in the cabin.

My question is not one of visceral driving feel, because I can't think of anyone who doesn't enjoy a kick in the ass when shifting. Instead, I'm wondering about track performance, which I understand from my limited track school/bmw performance school experience is all about smoothness/consistency.

Thus, my question remains: given that all S modes' shift times are the same, around the track, is the added 'kick' of S5/S6 compared to the relative smoothness of S1 a detriment to lap time?

04-15-2008, 08:36 PM	#1
man02195 Lieutenant 19 Rep 492 Posts Drives: e90 M3 M-DCT, SG-status 111 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	Gustav's video of M3 with M-DCT tranny Other than being another AW coupe, this is some pretty excellent footage and commentary: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=117051 __________________ E90 M3 Sedan Last edited by man02195; 04-16-2008 at 05:31 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

04-15-2008, 08:38 PM	#2
ybbiz34 Brigadier General 670 Rep 4,959 Posts Drives: 2023 330i M Sport Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (1)	Nice!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:28 PM	#3
Davinhci Colonel 55 Rep 2,484 Posts Drives: 08 M3 E92 & 08 E70 X5 4.8 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (6) Garage List 2008 M3 [0.00]	great __________________ 08 E92 AW M3 \| HRE P40 19" \| APE Air Filter \| BMW Performance Grills \| White Side Gills \| CF Mirror Covers \| BMW Performance Pedals \| F1 Pinnacle Tint \| V1 Hardwire \| Dinan Performance Software \| Gintani Exhaust \| H&R Sports Springs \| RPI Scoops \| BMW CF Spoiler \| Challenge Diffuser \| Lux H8 V3 \| LCI Tail Lights \|
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:30 PM	#4
e46e92love Brigadier General 236 Rep 3,303 Posts Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The East Side of Things iTrader: (0)	Awesome, thanks for the post __________________ "...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:31 PM	#5
enigma Captain 13 Rep 689 Posts Drives: E92 M3 and Elise Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land of the Microchip iTrader: (0)	The videos are basically verifying what we though we already knew. That is in the more agressive modes the next clutch is engaged much more quickly. The "feedback" being nothing more than an energy dump from flywheel to rear wheel. The in lower modes the close the next clutch more slowly allowing the flywheel to dissipate energy without the spike in acceleration. Interesting note on the clutch. Does anyone know how the durability of a wet clutch compares to a dry? __________________ Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:31 PM	#6
voltron1011 Colonel 119 Rep 2,909 Posts Drives: 2011 135i, FJR-1300 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wiesbaden iTrader: (2)	Sweet!!! __________________ '06 E90 325i (Delivered May '05) 6-spd manual, Nav, Xenons, 18' 162's, sport-suspension, 15mm RE spacers, NURBURGRING: http://www.e90post.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3270
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:44 PM	#8
skierman64 Brigadier General 125 Rep 3,071 Posts Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Greater St Louis Metro area iTrader: (1) Garage List 1994 325is Race Car [0.00] 2011 BMW Z4 [0.00] 1998 M3 Coupe [0.00] 2008 M3 Coupe [0.00]	Wow, that's the most comprehensive video review to date. Very, very, good stuff. I will have my DCT car in the next few days. Those video reviews will be hard to beat. If anyone has doubts about DCT, these videos should quell your apprehension. __________________ Invest Wisely...The best mod for your money?? BMWCCA high performance driver's school. The mod that lasts a lifetime and improves the performance of any car you drive[/LEFT]
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:48 PM	#9
hakaida442 First Lieutenant 3 Rep 371 Posts Drives: 11 Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV iTrader: (0)	I got a headache from the shaky camera work
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 09:58 PM	#10
MDCTFTW Lieutenant Colonel 123 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: E92 DCT Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal iTrader: (0)	Holy shit ... down shifting on the freeway is going to be sick with DCT.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 10:19 PM	#13
MDCTFTW Lieutenant Colonel 123 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: E92 DCT Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal iTrader: (0)	Does DCT/SMG allow you to over rev the engine if you down shift too far?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 10:39 PM	#16
Saturn Private First Class 4 Rep 177 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	Curious: based on these videos truly the only point to S5/S6 compared to S1 is feel, the jerkiness of the shift; the shift times seem to be the same. I was under the impression that especially at the track, smoother is better, so would it be a mistake to round the track in the higher S modes?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 10:47 PM	#18
SpencerM3 Sauce 75 Rep 2,023 Posts Drives: 2009 SSII E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (1)	GOD that sound is AMAZING for stock! __________________ 2009 E90 M3 \| Silverstone II \| Black Novillo \| HRE P40's \| Akrapovic Exhaust \| Eibach Pro Kit \| Jet Black Kidney Grilles \| SSII Side Reflectors \| SSII Side Gills \| LUX H8 Angel Eyes \| Macht Schnell Filter \| Tecnocraft Envy Charge Pipe "M3 drivers have no friends." - Jeremy Clarkson
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 10:51 PM	#20
Saturn Private First Class 4 Rep 177 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	Shift time as in the amount of time it takes for the selected gear to engage after pulling the paddle. After what I saw, S1 and S5 both took the same amount of time to shift, but S5 provided what the commentators called 'feedback.' I can see why this feedback is desireable, and even preferrable in the driving experience, but as far as on the track performance, isn't smoother/less jerky better?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-15-2008, 11:17 PM	#22
Saturn Private First Class 4 Rep 177 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0)	I had the pleasure of driving an M6 on an extended (4-days) test drive. To date, it is the single greatest driving experience I've had. (Minus the minor whiplash I had from the shifting) As far as I saw in the video, and I think the commentator mentioned that the BMW literature confirms this: the shift times are in fact identical in all S modes; thus the variable between modes is only the amount of 'kick' felt in the cabin. My question is not one of visceral driving feel, because I can't think of anyone who doesn't enjoy a kick in the ass when shifting. Instead, I'm wondering about track performance, which I understand from my limited track school/bmw performance school experience is all about smoothness/consistency. Thus, my question remains: given that all S modes' shift times are the same, around the track, is the added 'kick' of S5/S6 compared to the relative smoothness of S1 a detriment to lap time?
	Appreciate 0 Quote