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      01-25-2016, 06:27 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
I'm sure it's a fine car and we will all find out when we next rent one from Avis. However, debadged or not it is quite clearly a GM product to anyone that actually reads or thinks about cars. This marketing approach communicates embarrassment about their brand to me more than it communicates quality or value, which is unfortuante for GM.
A commercial like that is not targeted at you or me, guys on car forums, people dialed in. We make up a VERY small percentage of the car buying public and we are not buyers for the car in question.

Shit, poll data from a couple years ago found that many BMW 1-series owners did not know their cars were not FWD. In summary, the bulk of people out there don't know shit about cars lol.
I get that, but don't think it helps to compare the car to premium luxury brands in the way they do. Are they trying to market it as a well sorted value proposition to those in the market for a $20K - $30K car or are they trying to be something they are not? They should be doing the former and there are better points to sell than the fact some people in the focus group supposedly couldn't tell it was a Chevy. Did they not recognize it because it is nice and the rest of their lineup and brand is crap? Is that the message they are spending millions on advertising?

Interesting how no one thought it was a Cadillac. I guess Chevy doesn't put Caddy in the same league as the others named in the commercial. Or, maybe the whole thing was just contrived. I didn't read fine print on the screen but wouldn't be surprised if the "focus group" is actually fictional.
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      01-25-2016, 06:29 PM   #24
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The Taurus is terribly packaged. Decent looking and driving car with the right powertrain, but outward visibility is abysmal and it's cramped inside. SHO's make for some pretty killer used car values, though.
Agreed. I had one for a month rental and returned it after a few days for an Altima. I really hated just about everything about that Taurus.
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      01-25-2016, 06:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
I get that, but don't think it helps to compare the car to premium luxury brands in the way they do. Are they trying to market it as a well sorted value proposition to those in the market for a $20K - $30K car or are they trying to be something they are not? They should be doing the former and there are better points to sell than the fact some people in the focus group supposedly couldn't tell it was a Chevy. Did they not recognize it because it is nice and the rest of their lineup and brand is crap? Is that the message they are spending millions on advertising?

Interesting how no one thought it was a Cadillac. I guess Chevy doesn't put Caddy in the same league as the others named in the commercial. Or, maybe the whole thing was just contrived. I didn't read fine print on the screen but wouldn't be surprised if the "focus group" is actually fictional.
Are you surprised that the masses that aren't "into" cars can't tell what it is? It's a car with mass appeal. That's how to sell your lower-end, mass produced cars to Joe Public. Kudos to GM. They're not trying to be something they're not, (ie MB, Audi, BMW). They are selling a value proposition that's stating it's a luxury car without the luxury price.

Chevy and Cadillac marketing sit in their own silos. They rarely speak, nor does one know what the other is designing to certain extents.
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      01-25-2016, 07:15 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by backhill
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Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
I get that, but don't think it helps to compare the car to premium luxury brands in the way they do. Are they trying to market it as a well sorted value proposition to those in the market for a $20K - $30K car or are they trying to be something they are not? They should be doing the former and there are better points to sell than the fact some people in the focus group supposedly couldn't tell it was a Chevy. Did they not recognize it because it is nice and the rest of their lineup and brand is crap? Is that the message they are spending millions on advertising?

Interesting how no one thought it was a Cadillac. I guess Chevy doesn't put Caddy in the same league as the others named in the commercial. Or, maybe the whole thing was just contrived. I didn't read fine print on the screen but wouldn't be surprised if the "focus group" is actually fictional.
Are you surprised that the masses that aren't "into" cars can't tell what it is? It's a car with mass appeal. That's how to sell your lower-end, mass produced cars to Joe Public. Kudos to GM. They're not trying to be something they're not, (ie MB, Audi, BMW). They are selling a value proposition that's stating it's a luxury car without the luxury price.

Chevy and Cadillac marketing sit in their own silos. They rarely speak, nor does one know what the other is designing to certain extents.
Ok I understand you missed my points. That's fine.
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      01-26-2016, 09:17 AM   #27
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Ok I understand you missed my points. That's fine.
I got your points just fine. I think you're looking for something that isn't there.
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      01-26-2016, 10:27 AM   #28
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I yell at the TV every time I see that ad.
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      01-26-2016, 10:29 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
I get that, but don't think it helps to compare the car to premium luxury brands in the way they do. Are they trying to market it as a well sorted value proposition to those in the market for a $20K - $30K car or are they trying to be something they are not? They should be doing the former and there are better points to sell than the fact some people in the focus group supposedly couldn't tell it was a Chevy. Did they not recognize it because it is nice and the rest of their lineup and brand is crap? Is that the message they are spending millions on advertising?

Interesting how no one thought it was a Cadillac. I guess Chevy doesn't put Caddy in the same league as the others named in the commercial. Or, maybe the whole thing was just contrived. I didn't read fine print on the screen but wouldn't be surprised if the "focus group" is actually fictional.
The "focus group" is obviously fictional. Anyone who thinks that car actually looks like a Lexus or BMW should be dragged into a field and shot.

And they didn't say Cadillac because they don't want to cannibalize sales.

The point of the ad was to get the "average" shopper (those who drive 10 miles below the speed limit in the left lane in their Camry while they're texting) to think that an affordable car could be like a luxury car worth tens of thousands more. And their ads are similar to Buicks, where they surprise people by showing that their brand is "as good" as brands with more of a positive reputation.
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      01-26-2016, 11:05 AM   #30
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That it is being discussed here points to the fact that at least some are looking at the commercial and thinking about it. The really poor commercials you either don't notice at all or don't realize or care what they are selling after it is over.
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      01-26-2016, 11:19 AM   #31
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The Malibu with a 6.2 or Taurus with a coyote 5.0 would be interesting. The old impala ss with the LT-1 and the SHO with the Yamaha engines were cool. An underpowered family truckster boat isn't.
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      01-26-2016, 11:23 AM   #32
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The Malibu with a 6.2 or Taurus with a coyote 5.0 would be interesting. The old impala ss with the LT-1 and the SHO with the Yamaha engines were cool. An underpowered family truckster boat isn't.
Ironically enough, the new Malibu 2.0T makes more power than the SHO, almost as much as the LT1 Impala, and would blows the doors off both in any kind of performance measure, handling included.

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      01-26-2016, 11:29 AM   #33
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The "focus group" is obviously fictional. Anyone who thinks that car actually looks like a Lexus or BMW should be dragged into a field and shot.

And they didn't say Cadillac because they don't want to cannibalize sales.

The point of the ad was to get the "average" shopper (those who drive 10 miles below the speed limit in the left lane in their Camry while they're texting) to think that an affordable car could be like a luxury car worth tens of thousands more. And their ads are similar to Buicks, where they surprise people by showing that their brand is "as good" as brands with more of a positive reputation.
... and in doing so communicate their brand and products have been crap... "Sorry if you bought one previously, but this time we really, really mean it when we say we are better."

Obviously they don't want to cannibalize Caddy sales, but that is the brand that could get away with this marketing approach. Comparing a Caddy to a premium luxury brand in this way makes some sense. A Chevy, not so much.
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      01-26-2016, 11:52 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
... and in doing so communicate their brand and products have been crap... "Sorry if you bought one previously, but this time we really, really mean it when we say we are better."

Obviously they don't want to cannibalize Caddy sales, but that is the brand that could get away with this marketing approach. Comparing a Caddy to a premium luxury brand in this way makes some sense. A Chevy, not so much.
I mean they did have some negative PR from the bankruptcy and the ignition switch fiasco so in a way, that is pretty much what they're saying.
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      01-26-2016, 11:59 AM   #35
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Ironically enough, the new Malibu 2.0T makes more power than the SHO, almost as much as the LT1 Impala, and would blows the doors off both in any kind of performance measure, handling included.

True, but isn't as dominant as those were at the time they were made. That's why I listed the engines I did. Those would be the modern day equivalent.I'm interested in relative performance, not absolute. I don't want my ass handed to me by an Acura.
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      01-26-2016, 12:00 PM   #36
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... and in doing so communicate their brand and products have been crap... "Sorry if you bought one previously, but this time we really, really mean it when we say we are better."
This is no secret that they have been crap. Mary Barra knows that and took ownership.

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DeBord: You famously said at one point you’re not going to build any more crappy cars at GM. How are you going to execute on those goals?

Barra: It starts with the core business, and it starts with having the right product portfolio that’s customer driven, that has the right safety, the right fuel efficiency, the right performance. With every car we’re going to put into the market, we want to lead the segment, win the segment. We also want to grow GM Financial, which not only is good from a business perspective but we also strongly believe it facilitates the core business of selling more cars and trucks. We also believe that there’s growth in China over the next 10 to 15 years, going from the 24-million mark [for new vehicles sold annually] to 34 or 35 million.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
Obviously they don't want to cannibalize Caddy sales, but that is the brand that could get away with this marketing approach. Comparing a Caddy to a premium luxury brand in this way makes some sense. A Chevy, not so much.
I would argue that this marketing approach makes more sense for Chevy than it would for Cadillac, or even Buick. Hyundai and Kia have been doing it for a few years now (read: Genesys and K900, respectively). While they are at higher price points than the Malibu, they are still markedly lower than the 5, 6 and 7 series they are competing against for market share.

It makes sense for Chevy in the same way it makes sense for Hyundai and Kia. This strategy is presenting the impression or feel of luxury without the price for those with less buying power. All the while, Cadillac is not faux luxury. It's a direct competitor in the luxury brand space. This marketing strategy would be more embarrassing for Cadillac, as you put it, to admit they were never a player until now.

Actors or not, people will believe what they want to believe from these commercials. For Chevy to do this with their marketing of the Malibu is brilliant. What used to be a cheap, working mans brand has now become a high value proposition at a mass-appealing price point. At the very least, it's not a bunch of giant hamsters in Kias blasting Black-Eyed Peas.
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      01-26-2016, 12:13 PM   #37
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The Malibu with a 6.2 or Taurus with a coyote 5.0 would be interesting. The old impala ss with the LT-1 and the SHO with the Yamaha engines were cool. An underpowered family truckster boat isn't.
You have heard of the Chevy SS correct?
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      01-26-2016, 12:51 PM   #38
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saw this commercial last night and at the end a guy says "i'll take the house too". i couldn't help but think, even if it was a real focus group the opinion is already influenced by the surroundings. if you bring someone to a 10 million dollar home and ask what type of car do they expect to see the last thing on their mind is a basic car. if they had to guess it'll never be that car. i think the only fair surrounding would be a plain box with no background.

just a thought.
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      01-26-2016, 01:19 PM   #39
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You have heard of the Chevy SS correct?
Exactly my point. They should offer that engine in all their full size cars. Ford should do the same with the coyote. Not because they will sell a lot. But it would be an image builder for them. The performance is back kinda thing. Only dodge at the moment is pushing the performance image.
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      01-26-2016, 01:20 PM   #40
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I want to see the 90% of people nothat amazed. Lol
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      01-26-2016, 01:33 PM   #41
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True, but isn't as dominant as those were at the time they were made. That's why I listed the engines I did. Those would be the modern day equivalent.I'm interested in relative performance, not absolute. I don't want my ass handed to me by an Acura.
Okay, well if we're judging things relatively speaking, perhaps we shouldn't be comparing a full-size boat to a mainstream family sedan. And even the SHO was a 'high-performance' model in it's lineup, which there is no equivalent to in the Malibu line.

Short of sports coupes, a 2.0T Malibu will dispatch just about any normal vehicle you would come across. It's as quick as just about any other midsizer.
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      01-26-2016, 01:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4 View Post
I get that, but don't think it helps to compare the car to premium luxury brands in the way they do. Are they trying to market it as a well sorted value proposition to those in the market for a $20K - $30K car or are they trying to be something they are not? They should be doing the former and there are better points to sell than the fact some people in the focus group supposedly couldn't tell it was a Chevy. Did they not recognize it because it is nice and the rest of their lineup and brand is crap? Is that the message they are spending millions on advertising?

Interesting how no one thought it was a Cadillac. I guess Chevy doesn't put Caddy in the same league as the others named in the commercial. Or, maybe the whole thing was just contrived. I didn't read fine print on the screen but wouldn't be surprised if the "focus group" is actually fictional.
Chevy would not want you to compare it to a Caddy, that is product cannibalism.

Its about mass market appeal. Most of the country associates BMW with luxury, and being expensive, its an aspirational purchase. They do not know the MSRPS, they just know "BMW". Now other places like NYC and Cali, the BMW is as common as a Corolla. But in terms of big picture, to hear someone mention this Malibu is anything BMW like perks up the ears of the broader public.

I had to take classes in Automotive Marketing and Automotive Design Theory to get my degree. We had to study and write papers on focus groups of design/marketing success and failures over the past 25 years.
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      01-26-2016, 01:47 PM   #43
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I would argue that this marketing approach makes more sense for Chevy than it would for Cadillac, or even Buick. Hyundai and Kia have been doing it for a few years now (read: Genesys and K900, respectively). While they are at higher price points than the Malibu, they are still markedly lower than the 5, 6 and 7 series they are competing against for market share.

It makes sense for Chevy in the same way it makes sense for Hyundai and Kia. This strategy is presenting the impression or feel of luxury without the price for those with less buying power. All the while, Cadillac is not faux luxury. It's a direct competitor in the luxury brand space. This marketing strategy would be more embarrassing for Cadillac, as you put it, to admit they were never a player until now.

Actors or not, people will believe what they want to believe from these commercials. For Chevy to do this with their marketing of the Malibu is brilliant. What used to be a cheap, working mans brand has now become a high value proposition at a mass-appealing price point. At the very least, it's not a bunch of giant hamsters in Kias blasting Black-Eyed Peas.
I'll agree to disagree on GM's brilliance.
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      01-26-2016, 02:18 PM   #44
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. It's as quick as just about any other midsizer.
Which is my point. Why doesn't any makers want to step up? Dodge has with the SRT charger. Ford, nada. Chevy has the Chevy SS. It's almost non existent in its promotion. Putting a hot engine in a Taurus for example would push the whole Taurus lineup. They put it in every commercial, then sell the six cylinders like crazy as they now have the performance image. Basic marketing. GM keeps putting the engines in one offs. HHR, Pontiac G8. These are dead cars related to no other cars and therefore do nothing to help push the mainstream cars. Put the engine in an impala or Malibu for god sakes. Ford at least got it with the Focus RS. Now all the focus cars are getting a look from people who didn't look before.
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