Cost to swap in an s85

Ateam · 11-06-2011, 01:01 PM

I am wondering if any more technical car builders could chime in with the possibility of swapping in an s85 into our cars with the dct. First question is could a s85 be mated to a dct without a problem? Given smg is also 7 gears, I would think the tuning would be a bit easier to make them work together.

Obviously one big cost is the engine which is a given. But besides that, how much extra electronics and tuning would be required if you could also get an M5 ecu to run the engine?

Is this quite possible if you are willing to spend say 25k? or 35k? What would be the big issues making this the most difficult?

Obviously suspension would have to be tweaked for the weight etc which I understand.

I feel this would be the best car of all-time. A 505 hp v10 in the shell of an M3. Is on my too do project list in the next few years if I learn its actual feasible

SPQR M3 · 11-06-2011, 07:35 PM

Aren't you just better off supercharging the S65?

BMWJ · 11-06-2011, 07:38 PM

It's been done, I forget who the tuner was.. It's very cool. Some argue the added weight will upset the 50/50 weight balance, but I'd do it. It wouldn't bother me. Especially if you put in a Dinan stroker version of it.

PhillyNate · 11-06-2011, 08:15 PM

I believe Hartge swapped a S85 V10 into a 3-series with great results. It was a very tight fit but the car sounded and performed awesome as expected. There are Youtube videos of Tim Schrick driving this very sedan. Forgive me if my details are a little off.

Stainless 45 · 11-06-2011, 09:23 PM

Here ya go-

http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/20...BMW-M3-V10.htm

MEMMEZZ · 11-06-2011, 09:25 PM

ive seen an s85 in a non m e92. i believe it was bimmerfest 2010. sounded unbelievable.

Ateam · 11-06-2011, 09:38 PM

I should have mentioned as sure enough the first reply says to supercharge. I understand you can make more hp and much cheaper and maintain great throtle response and no lag with a supercharger BUT it simply is not a v10 with that absolutely intoxicating sound. To be quite honest a huge reason why I want to do this is for the sound which simply is not replicatable even with the best exhaust setups on the m3. The other is obviously to have a nice 505 naturally aspirated hp in a 3600 pound car. This would be like the true m6 csl that was never made only in 3 series skin.

I saw that hartge so if they can do that in a regular three than I see no reason it could not be done. However they used the smg from the same car so my question is whether we could maintain the DCT tranny with this

kmarei · 11-06-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ateam

I should have mentioned as sure enough the first reply says to supercharge. I understand you can make more hp and much cheaper and maintain great throtle response and no lag with a supercharger BUT it simply is not a v10 with that absolutely intoxicating sound. To be quite honest a huge reason why I want to do this is for the sound which simply is not replicatable even with the best exhaust setups on the m3. The other is obviously to have a nice 505 naturally aspirated hp in a 3600 pound car. This would be like the true m6 csl that was never made only in 3 series skin.

I saw that hartge so if they can do that in a regular three than I see no reason it could not be done. However they used the smg from the same car so my question is whether we could maintain the DCT tranny with this

imagine that S65 in a 135s body

M3SQRD · 11-06-2011, 10:01 PM

I know someone that's installed a Dinan-stroked s85 in an e30 M3 - this was an extremely expensive swap and not only because the guy started with a crate motor from BMW! If you can get an s85 into an e30 M3 then, if you have enough money and a great shop, I don't see why you couldn't do this swap in an e92 M3.

Stainless 45 · 11-06-2011, 10:45 PM

The story on the Manhart one is they used mostly OEM parts to do the swap...

eisenb11 · 11-06-2011, 11:03 PM

I was under the impression that engine swaps usually involved a transmission swap as well. Wouldn't that mean the S85 gets paired with the SMG?

As a point of reference, I believe that the S63 engine swaps involved putting in an auto transmission.

SEI · 11-07-2011, 02:57 AM

well i think an s85 with a manual would be better.

M3SQRD · 11-07-2011, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eisenb11

I was under the impression that engine swaps usually involved a transmission swap as well. Wouldn't that mean the S85 gets paired with the SMG?

As a point of reference, I believe that the S63 engine swaps involved putting in an auto transmission.

Nope - the e30 M3 with the Dinan-stroked s85 does not use the SMG.

flipm3 · 11-07-2011, 07:11 AM

An S85B50 in an E9X M3 would be pretty sick!! The engine is roughly 60lbs heavier than the S65B40, so I don't see it disrupting balance too much. The E9X M3 6MT does fit the S85B50 with no modification. What I am personally not sure about is actually mounting the engine and transmission into the car.

What I am curious though is about the engine management. Apex Speed Tech carries Pectel stand-alone units that makes literally any swap possible, but it would be awesome to see this swap done retaining the OEM DME. From my past research, it seems like getting the OEM DME to work with all the amenities is the biggest challenge amidst the whole swap.

You should pick up a wrecked E9X M3 with a blown engine and do the swap!!

Malek@MRF · 11-07-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipm3

An S85B50 in an E9X M3 would be pretty sick!! The engine is roughly 60lbs heavier than the S65B40, so I don't see it disrupting balance too much. The E9X M3 6MT does fit the S85B50 with no modification. What I am personally not sure about is actually mounting the engine and transmission into the car.

What I am curious though is about the engine management. Apex Speed Tech carries Pectel stand-alone units that makes literally any swap possible, but it would be awesome to see this swap done retaining the OEM DME. From my past research, it seems like getting the OEM DME to work with all the amenities is the biggest challenge amidst the whole swap.

You should pick up a wrecked E9X M3 with a blown engine and do the swap!!

You are correct on both points.

However in this case, one would just use the OEM DME from the S65.

-Malek

THE TECH · 11-07-2011, 10:42 AM

No doubt a very cool swap.

Shmelgy · 11-07-2011, 11:48 AM

I have also been wondering the same and asked around. It comes down to the engine mounts as the main problem. Other than that, you just find an engine, pair it with the 6mt and get some tuning done

Malek@MRF · 11-07-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmelgy

I have also been wondering the same and asked around. It comes down to the engine mounts as the main problem. Other than that, you just find an engine, pair it with the 6mt and get some tuning done

Engine mounts are the least of the concerns as they can be easily fabricated.

Ateam · 11-07-2011, 12:31 PM

if only engine mounts were my biggest problem! I have decided a while ago I am going to pursue this and save a bit of cash for it. If it becomes not feasible or just ridiculously expensive than I may just pick up a new m3 when they come out but if it all falls together I would like this to be my next couple years project.

Atleast for me, an m3 with 505 hp is as much power as I will ever desire. Heck even stock m3 is as much power as I would ever need and continue to be happy with. To me it honestly is about the noise it makes. The sound is that good. And I will be honest in reality the stock 414 hp is fast but I feel another 100 hp would really make it climb into a super-car type range. 3600 pound m3 with 505 hp. Man should have come factory like that. I would have paid 15k more for that engine!

IMG · 11-07-2011, 01:04 PM

This topic has been discussed before along with some detailed
pricing estimates and amount of work (search).

For a standard S85 to E9x M3 conversion, the cost of conversion
will be ~$50-70k. For a stroker S85, add another $30-40k on top
of that.

feaganszhp · 11-07-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmarei

imagine that S65 in a 135s body

Ateam · 11-07-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by img

This topic has been discussed before along with some detailed
pricing estimates and amount of work (search).

For a standard S85 to E9x M3 conversion, the cost of conversion
will be ~$50-70k. For a stroker S85, add another $30-40k on top
of that.

I do not think 50-70 is even ballpark. 30-40 MAYBE if that. M5 engines are now really cheap compared to what they used to be. We do not need a tranny as the dtc will hold up nicely. Then a tuner and tuning ability. Should be no more than 30 max

11-06-2011, 01:01 PM	#1
Ateam Banned 88 Rep 1,105 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Cost to swap in an s85 I am wondering if any more technical car builders could chime in with the possibility of swapping in an s85 into our cars with the dct. First question is could a s85 be mated to a dct without a problem? Given smg is also 7 gears, I would think the tuning would be a bit easier to make them work together. Obviously one big cost is the engine which is a given. But besides that, how much extra electronics and tuning would be required if you could also get an M5 ecu to run the engine? Is this quite possible if you are willing to spend say 25k? or 35k? What would be the big issues making this the most difficult? Obviously suspension would have to be tweaked for the weight etc which I understand. I feel this would be the best car of all-time. A 505 hp v10 in the shell of an M3. Is on my too do project list in the next few years if I learn its actual feasible
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11-06-2011, 07:35 PM	#2
SPQR M3 First Lieutenant 43 Rep 330 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 325i Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Aren't you just better off supercharging the S65?
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11-06-2011, 07:38 PM	#3
BMWJ Lieutenant 61 Rep 480 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	It's been done, I forget who the tuner was.. It's very cool. Some argue the added weight will upset the 50/50 weight balance, but I'd do it. It wouldn't bother me. Especially if you put in a Dinan stroker version of it.
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11-06-2011, 08:15 PM	#4
PhillyNate ENTHUSIAST 135 Rep 2,097 Posts Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 Porsche Cayman [0.00]	I believe Hartge swapped a S85 V10 into a 3-series with great results. It was a very tight fit but the car sounded and performed awesome as expected. There are Youtube videos of Tim Schrick driving this very sedan. Forgive me if my details are a little off. __________________ "what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson 2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt 2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15) 2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14) 2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11) Last edited by PhillyNate; 11-11-2011 at 09:26 AM..
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11-06-2011, 09:23 PM	#5
Stainless 45 Captain 87 Rep 602 Posts Drives: Last of the V-8 Interceptors Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (1)	Here ya go- http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/20...BMW-M3-V10.htm __________________ Blue Thunder -2011 LeMans Blue e92 DCT, ZCP, European Delivery. BPM Stage II. Dinan 3.45 Rear. Borla/Encore Innovation Exhaust, LUX Angel Eyes, Forgestar F14's, Turner road armor. "Last of the V-8 Interceptors, a real piece of history..."
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11-06-2011, 09:25 PM	#6
MEMMEZZ Captain 71 Rep 752 Posts Drives: MR.E92 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (6)	ive seen an s85 in a non m e92. i believe it was bimmerfest 2010. sounded unbelievable.
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11-06-2011, 09:38 PM	#7
Ateam Banned 88 Rep 1,105 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I should have mentioned as sure enough the first reply says to supercharge. I understand you can make more hp and much cheaper and maintain great throtle response and no lag with a supercharger BUT it simply is not a v10 with that absolutely intoxicating sound. To be quite honest a huge reason why I want to do this is for the sound which simply is not replicatable even with the best exhaust setups on the m3. The other is obviously to have a nice 505 naturally aspirated hp in a 3600 pound car. This would be like the true m6 csl that was never made only in 3 series skin. I saw that hartge so if they can do that in a regular three than I see no reason it could not be done. However they used the smg from the same car so my question is whether we could maintain the DCT tranny with this
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11-06-2011, 10:01 PM	#9
M3SQRD Major General 2160 Rep 5,543 Posts Drives: E92 M3,G20 330ix,F22 240iX,F82 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Mid-Atlantic iTrader: (11)	I know someone that's installed a Dinan-stroked s85 in an e30 M3 - this was an extremely expensive swap and not only because the guy started with a crate motor from BMW! If you can get an s85 into an e30 M3 then, if you have enough money and a great shop, I don't see why you couldn't do this swap in an e92 M3.
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11-06-2011, 10:45 PM	#10
Stainless 45 Captain 87 Rep 602 Posts Drives: Last of the V-8 Interceptors Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (1)	The story on the Manhart one is they used mostly OEM parts to do the swap... __________________ Blue Thunder -2011 LeMans Blue e92 DCT, ZCP, European Delivery. BPM Stage II. Dinan 3.45 Rear. Borla/Encore Innovation Exhaust, LUX Angel Eyes, Forgestar F14's, Turner road armor. "Last of the V-8 Interceptors, a real piece of history..."
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11-06-2011, 11:03 PM	#11
eisenb11 Major 53 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 M3 SSII Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Redondo Beach, CA, USA iTrader: (0)	I was under the impression that engine swaps usually involved a transmission swap as well. Wouldn't that mean the S85 gets paired with the SMG? As a point of reference, I believe that the S63 engine swaps involved putting in an auto transmission.
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11-07-2011, 02:57 AM	#12
SEI Second Lieutenant 47 Rep 283 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jakarta iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 Mercedes c63s amg [0.00] 2013 Kawasaki Ninja ... [0.00] 2007 Yamaha R6 [0.00] 2014 Mercedes S500 [0.00] 2011 BMW X3 35i [0.00] 2012 Mercedes E63 AMG [0.00] 2006 Mercedes S500 [0.00] 2007 BMW 335i (E92) [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	well i think an s85 with a manual would be better. __________________ now: 2008 335i (E92), 2011 M3 (E92), X3 35i (F25),2012 E63 AMG (W212), 2013 Kawasaki Ninja 250, 2007 Yamaha R6 gone:2009 GTR, 2007 335i (E93) 2004 M3 (HPF stg 3), 2008 Civic Lx, 2007 Z4M Roadster, 2001 Gembala GT550, 2007 CLS 55, 2007 STI, 2004 M3
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11-07-2011, 07:11 AM	#14
flipm3 E46 + E90 + F80 192 Rep 2,894 Posts Drives: E46 + E90 + F80 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Illinois iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00] 2002 BMW M3 [0.00]	An S85B50 in an E9X M3 would be pretty sick!! The engine is roughly 60lbs heavier than the S65B40, so I don't see it disrupting balance too much. The E9X M3 6MT does fit the S85B50 with no modification. What I am personally not sure about is actually mounting the engine and transmission into the car. What I am curious though is about the engine management. Apex Speed Tech carries Pectel stand-alone units that makes literally any swap possible, but it would be awesome to see this swap done retaining the OEM DME. From my past research, it seems like getting the OEM DME to work with all the amenities is the biggest challenge amidst the whole swap. You should pick up a wrecked E9X M3 with a blown engine and do the swap!! __________________ F80 M3 DCT\|Alpine White . Black Leather \| My Build Thread E90 M3 DCT\|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth \| My Build Thread E46 M3 6MT\|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather \| My Build Thread
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11-07-2011, 10:42 AM	#16
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 307 Rep 13,093 Posts Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas iTrader: (45) Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00] 2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00]	No doubt a very cool swap.
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11-07-2011, 11:48 AM	#17
Shmelgy B.E. 444 Rep 761 Posts Drives: F80 M3 & 1969 Mustang Fastback Join Date: May 2010 Location: City of Angels iTrader: (3)	I have also been wondering the same and asked around. It comes down to the engine mounts as the main problem. Other than that, you just find an engine, pair it with the 6mt and get some tuning done __________________ Current: 2022 TRX & 2010 GT3RS Past: 2016 M3 Individual Grigio Telesto Pearl, Sakhir Orange/Black Full Leather w/ CF trim, 6MT, ZCP, CCB, etc... Previous: 2011 E92 M3 Melbourne Red on Black 6MT ZCP. --> now 2010 dedicated track car
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11-07-2011, 12:31 PM	#19
Ateam Banned 88 Rep 1,105 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	if only engine mounts were my biggest problem! I have decided a while ago I am going to pursue this and save a bit of cash for it. If it becomes not feasible or just ridiculously expensive than I may just pick up a new m3 when they come out but if it all falls together I would like this to be my next couple years project. Atleast for me, an m3 with 505 hp is as much power as I will ever desire. Heck even stock m3 is as much power as I would ever need and continue to be happy with. To me it honestly is about the noise it makes. The sound is that good. And I will be honest in reality the stock 414 hp is fast but I feel another 100 hp would really make it climb into a super-car type range. 3600 pound m3 with 505 hp. Man should have come factory like that. I would have paid 15k more for that engine!
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11-07-2011, 01:04 PM	#20
IMG 1122 Rep 7,690 Posts Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Location iTrader: (6)	This topic has been discussed before along with some detailed pricing estimates and amount of work (search). For a standard S85 to E9x M3 conversion, the cost of conversion will be ~$50-70k. For a stroker S85, add another $30-40k on top of that.
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