Anyone Drive The Early Gen Porsche Cayman

[Sebringjetta]

anyone drive the earlier gen porsche cayman.. i have been reading reviews on them mostly 2008's and they appear to be pretty good performers. more or less thinking of a track machine but wanted to know if anyone had some hands on experience..wonder how they compare to the e92. i obviously know they are less power but are light weight..

[su_maverick]

Ive known a couple people that have owned them and, at the time, said that they were a truer track car than a 911 (excluding GT3 of course). Ive never driven one myself so this is just hearsay. I have read some articles that back this up though as the person writing it said that the Cayman is a very balanced car due to the more MR design over the 911 and quite agile.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by su_maverick

Ive known a couple people that have owned them and, at the time, said that they were a truer track car than a 911 (excluding GT3 of course). Ive never driven one myself so this is just hearsay. I have read some articles that back this up though as the person writing it said that the Cayman is a very balanced car due to the more MR design over the 911 and quite agile.

one of the reviews stated they thought it was better then the 911 and is close to the same level as the GT3.. I wonder what reliability and maintenance is like

[Petros]

I've driven a 2008 base Cayman with Tiptronic. It was rather underwhelming and didn't feel anything special. Good car, but lacked power (maybe Cayman S is better), and the handling was good, but didn't feel much better than a S2000 or 370z I had driven earlier. You pay quite a premium for no other reason than it has a Porsche badge on it. Very overpriced car IMO. I'd get a Corvette at that price tag.

If you want a cayman for the track, get a 2009 or newer. They are far more durable and reliable. The older models were unreliable. They tend to overheat and burn up the powersteering system on the track. Not to mention the engine burns a lot of oil and also tends to experience oil starvation and possible engine failure during prolonged high g corners.

Maintenance in general on all Porsches is a serious PITA. Everything is buried deep within the centre of the car and covered by a gazillion body panels. So even the basic maintenance and repair jobs take quite a bit more work because of how inaccessible everything is.

[Z K]

I drove the older Cayman and Cayman S. Great handling cars. It feels so light on its feet and feels much more connected than the M3. Cornering is sublime, much more neutral than the 911 which tends to understeer under throttle. All it really needs is a LSD, and then it would be a exceptional car. The new Caymans have optional LSD and the previous generation had a LSD in the Cayman R. If I could get a Cayman R for a decent price, I'd go for it. You can tell Porsche purposely made the Cayman slower so it wouldn't compete with the 911.

When I was looking for a car, it was between the Cayman S and the M3. I ended up with the M3 because it was easier to find pre-owned and it was more practical. But if I didn't need every day practicality, I'd pick the Cayman hands down. It feels much more sporty and fun than the M3 despite having less power.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

I owned a 2006 Cayman S. Loved it! Handling, feel, and just the poise was on another level. Nothing at the price point comes close and the newer 09s were even better, and the current gen even better than that.

For a sports car, you dont get much better than the way it feels and sounds and of course you have the Porsch quality/F&F. If you can get a Cayman R, thats the best way to go unless you buy a brand new one.

Dynamically, it is far superior to our M3s, or anything BMW for that matter.

[slicer]

I have a 987.2 cayman which has the DFI motor (motor change made in '09). The early cars have a less reliable motor that has oiling issues and IMS bearing problems. I personally wouldn't consider a 987.1 for those reasons. I lost a 996 motor due to oil starvation so I have experienced the downside of that motor personally. If you do get a 987.1 you should plan on adding a dry sump system IMO.

I have considered turning our 987.2 into a track car as they seem to do well for that purpose. The interseries cayman race series is based on the 987.2 cars.... And the DFI engine and PDK trans seems to perform very well. I have not had our Cayman on the track but when driven hard on the street it understeers badly. Despite all of the "neutral handling" hype it receives. I know that it could be set up to handle gloriously with some suspension mods. But in order to get some camber, and adjust for the impacts of suspension geometry changes when lowering, you need Gt3 lower control arms, rear toe links, and coilovers at a minimum... Then I know I would want drop links, possibly sway bars, rear lca's... $5k+ later it would be where I want it. Then I would want to add a LSD... I haven't ruled out going this route but once you start doing the math a 996 or 997.1 gt3 starts looking less expensive because it has the goodies from the factory... suspension work done out of the box, ideally factory race seats, etc. I would still have less into our 987.2 than I do in my M3 so it's not all bad. I do however enjoy driving my M3 more but I also have a lot of work done to it. The question is would I like the 987.2 more if I spent the same money on it?

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by Z K

I drove the older Cayman and Cayman S. Great handling cars. It feels so light on its feet and feels much more connected than the M3. Cornering is sublime, much more neutral than the 911 which tends to understeer under throttle. All it really needs is a LSD, and then it would be a exceptional car. The new Caymans have optional LSD and the previous generation had a LSD in the Cayman R. If I could get a Cayman R for a decent price, I'd go for it. You can tell Porsche purposely made the Cayman slower so it wouldn't compete with the 911.

When I was looking for a car, it was between the Cayman S and the M3. I ended up with the M3 because it was easier to find pre-owned and it was more practical. But if I didn't need every day practicality, I'd pick the Cayman hands down. It feels much more sporty and fun than the M3 despite having less power.

dont get me wrong i love my m3 and will be a roundel DB for life.. but i dont think i want to strip it completely so im always on the hunt fr a 2nd track car that i can gut and full cage, hans seats etc...

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by slicer

I have a 987.2 cayman which has the DFI motor (motor change made in '09). The early cars have a less reliable motor that has oiling issues and IMS bearing problems. I personally wouldn't consider a 987.1 for those reasons. I lost a 996 motor due to oil starvation so I have experienced the downside of that motor personally. If you do get a 987.1 you should plan on adding a dry sump system IMO. I have considered turning our 987.2 into a track car as they seem to do well for that purpose. The interseries cayman race series is based on the 987.2 cars.... I have not had our Cayman on the track but when driven hard on the street it understeers badly IMO... Despite all of the "neutral handling" hype it receives. I know that it could be set up to handle gloriously with some suspension mods... But in order to get some camber, and adjust for the impacts of suspension geometry changes when lowering, you need Gt3 lower control arms, rear toe links, and coilovers at a minimum... Then I know I would want drop links, possibly sway bars, rear lca's... $5k+ later it would be where I want it. Then I would want to add a LSD... I haven't ruled out going this route but once you start doing the math a 996 or 997.1 gt3 starts looking less expensive because it has the goodies from the factory... suspension work done out of the box, ideally factory race seats, etc. I would still have less into our 987.2 than I do in my M3 so it's not all bad. I do however enjoy driving my M3 more but I also have a lot of work done to it. The question is would I like the 987.2 more if I spent the same money on it?

wow thank you for the detailed response.. in everything i have read understeer is always an issue.. i think your right when yo stated once you add all the mods up you get closer to a GT3 and that would my overall choice...

by the way i got your pm about the wheels... tossing around the thought and will get back to you...

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Sebringjetta

wow thank you for the detailed response.. in everything i have read understeer is always an issue.. i think your right when yo stated once you add all the mods up you get closer to a GT3 and that would my overall choice...

by the way i got your pm about the wheels... tossing around the thought and will get back to you...

No problem, happy to help. Obviously I have been thinking about tracking a cayman too.

Let me know about the wheels... They are in perfect condition, not a scratch on them, and never used on the track.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I owned a 2006 Cayman S. Loved it! Handling, feel, and just the poise was on another level. Nothing at the price point comes close and the newer 09s were even better, and the current gen even better than that.

For a sports car, you dont get much better than the way it feels and sounds and of course you have the Porsch quality/F&F. If you can get a Cayman R, thats the best way to go unless you buy a brand new one.

Dynamically, it is far superior to our M3s, or anything BMW for that matter.

I have never been exposed to anyone who loved any brand more unequivocally than you. The only comparison I have seen is how crazy some people get about sports teams (I'm from Green Bay so I have seen some crazy Packer fans first hand )... but even hyper fans get mad at their team sometimes. I have never heard you say anything negative about Porsche. It's really odd; no brand is perfect. On top of that I don't understand why you hang out on the M3 forum. Why aren't you spending your time on 6speed or Rennlist? Real question; not trying to be a smart a$$.

I currently own a Cayman S, have owned a 996 911 (POS), my dad has a 993 tt (after replacing the trans and diff at 30k miles it's running great - $20k+ repair), I have driven my friend's 996 gt3, 997 tt, 996 tt, etc. They are great cars but each of them has it's weak points. I like them but honestly I have had much better luck with BMW's from a reliability standpoint. Our current Cayman has been very reliable but the handling is definitely not boner-worthy with the OEM suspension....

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by slicer

I have never been exposed to anyone who loved any brand more unequivocally than you. The only comparison I have seen is how crazy some people get about sports teams (I'm from Green Bay so I have seen some crazy Packer fans first hand )... but even hyper fans get mad at their team sometimes. I have never heard you say anything negative about Porsche. It's really odd; no brand is perfect. On top of that I don't understand why you hang out on the M3 forum. Why aren't you spending your time on 6speed or Rennlist? Real question; not trying to be a smart a$$.

I currently own a Cayman S, have owned a 996 911 (POS), my dad has a 993 tt (after replacing the trans and diff at 30k miles it's running great - $20k+ repair), I have driven my friend's 996 gt3, 997 tt, 996 tt, etc. They are great cars but each of them has it's weak points. I like them but honestly I have had much better luck with BMW's from a reliability standpoint. Our current Cayman has been very reliable but the handling is definitely not boner-worthy with the OEM suspension....

i notice alot of members here on the forum who dont own M3'S..its even worse in the FOT section on m3forum.com

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by slicer

I have never been exposed to anyone who loved any brand more unequivocally than you. The only comparison I have seen is how crazy some people get about sports teams (I'm from Green Bay so I have seen some crazy Packer fans first hand )... but even hyper fans get mad at their team sometimes. I have never heard you say anything negative about Porsche. It's really odd; no brand is perfect. On top of that I don't understand why you hang out on the M3 forum. Why aren't you spending your time on 6speed or Rennlist? Real question; not trying to be a smart a$$.

I currently own a Cayman S, have owned a 996 911 (POS), my dad has a 993 tt (after replacing the trans and diff at 30k miles it's running great - $20k+ repair), I have driven my friend's 996 gt3, 997 tt, 996 tt, etc. They are great cars but each of them has it's weak points. I like them but honestly I have had much better luck with BMW's from a reliability standpoint. Our current Cayman has been very reliable but the handling is definitely not boner-worthy with the OEM suspension....

I dont agree. And you simply cant compare those old Porsche's to new ones. There isnt a single better built car with the fit and finish of a Porsche in the world, and certainly BMW isnt anywhere near their level.

I have owned 2 Porsches, a 911 and Cayman S, and between my father and cousins probably another 10-12 Porsches all of which have been much better than the BMWs we've owned.

Look at dependability and reliability reports, and initial quality, where Porsche since the 997 has been ranking either the top or close to it, and BMW unfortunately has been mediocre at best and generally below industry average. BWM just has to recall 160,000 6 cylinder turbo engines. Their cars have been terribly unreliable and got worse since they went to turbos.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I dont agree. And you simply cant compare those old Porsche's to new ones. There isnt a single better built car with the fit and finish of a Porsche in the world, and certainly BMW isnt anywhere near their level.

I have owned 2 Porsches, a 911 and Cayman S, and between my father and cousins probably another 10-12 Porsches all of which have been much better than the BMWs we've owned.

Look at dependability and reliability reports, and initial quality, where Porsche since the 997 has been ranking either the top or close to it, and BMW unfortunately has been mediocre at best and generally below industry average. BWM just has to recall 160,000 6 cylinder turbo engines. Their cars have been terribly unreliable and got worse since they went to turbos.

I would hope the fit and finish is damn near perfect if you are going to pay THAT much more over other German brands, yet alone cars like the C7 Corvette.

I'm not saying the new BMW's are perfect (I take reliability very seriously). To say that "Their cars have been terribly unreliable" is just false IMHO. Those I6's are some of the most bulletproof engines out there, and they are a breeze to work on compared to doing DIY's on a 911 for example. If you want to bring up recalls, how did that GT3 recall feel?

This is where I think you don't understand the rest of us. Like Slicer said, I've never met anyone that drinks so much Koolaid from 1 brand. But where you are wrong is that you assume the rest of us for some reason don't like Porsches. On the contrary, they are one of my favorite car mfg's and strive to own a 997 GT3 one day.

I really don't understand why you are here on a BMW forum either, yet alone why you drive one.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by W///

I would hope the fit and finish is damn near perfect if you are going to pay THAT much more over other German brands, yet alone cars like the C7 Corvette.

I'm not saying the new BMW's are perfect (I take reliability very seriously). To say that "Their cars have been terribly unreliable" is just false IMHO. Those I6's are some of the most bulletproof engines out there, and they are a breeze to work on compared to doing DIY's on a 911 for example. If you want to bring up recalls, how did that GT3 recall feel?

This is where I think you don't understand the rest of us. Like Slicer said, I've never met anyone that drinks so much Koolaid from 1 brand. But where you are wrong is that you assume the rest of us for some reason don't like Porsches. On the contrary, they are one of my favorite car mfg's and strive to own a 997 GT3 one day.

I really don't understand why you are here on a BMW forum either, yet alone why you drive one.

BMW just recalled 160,000 cars. Basically ALL of the 6 cylinder engines. Go look at their reliability on cars like the X5, which is a huge POS and one of the least reliable SUVs out there. Look at the massive HPFP problems that have plagued their cars for year, M5/6s going into limp modes on hot days.

2012, 2013 2014, Porsche ranked in the top (#2 for '12, '13, and top 10 for '14), whereas BMW was below industry average in all of those years.

So bascially with the GT3, 5 out of ~800 had issues. That is .00625%

I would almost guarantee more M3 percentage wise had rod bearing problems which BMW refuses to acknowledge.

Lets not forget the 458 italia...12 out of about 800 went up in flames.

And to the contrary, I know most here love Porsches, and aspire to own them.

2004-2013, vehicles to avoid, of them X5 and Mini Cooper are ranked worst of the worst.

http://consumerreports.org/cro/2013/...cars/index.htm

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by W///

I would hope the fit and finish is damn near perfect if you are going to pay THAT much more over other German brands, yet alone cars like the C7 Corvette.

I'm not saying the new BMW's are perfect (I take reliability very seriously). To say that "Their cars have been terribly unreliable" is just false IMHO. Those I6's are some of the most bulletproof engines out there, and they are a breeze to work on compared to doing DIY's on a 911 for example. If you want to bring up recalls, how did that GT3 recall feel?

This is where I think you don't understand the rest of us. Like Slicer said, I've never met anyone that drinks so much Koolaid from 1 brand. But where you are wrong is that you assume the rest of us for some reason don't like Porsches. On the contrary, they are one of my favorite car mfg's and strive to own a 997 GT3 one day.

I really don't understand why you are here on a BMW forum either, yet alone why you drive one.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

BMW just recalled 160,000 cars. Basically ALL of the 6 cylinder engines. Go look at their reliability on cars like the X5, which is a huge POS and one of the least reliable SUVs out there. Look at the massive HPFP problems that have plagued their cars for year, M5/6s going into limp modes on hot days.

2012, 2013 2014, Porsche ranked in the top (#2 for '12, '13, and top 10 for '14), whereas BMW was below industry average in all of those years.

So bascially with the GT3, 5 out of ~800 had issues. That is .00625%

I would almost guarantee more M3 percentage wise had rod bearing problems which BMW refuses to acknowledge.

Lets not forget the 458 italia...12 out of about 800 went up in flames.

And to the contrary, I know most here love Porsches, and aspire to own them.

2004-2013, vehicles to avoid, of them X5 and Mini Cooper are ranked worst of the worst.

http://consumerreports.org/cro/2013/...cars/index.htm

wow this thread got derailed ok 1st off i want to say i dream and will one day own a 997 gt3. i have always been a fan of porsche as im huge into professional Motorsports racing and porsche probably has one of the best history and records when it come to racing... but im also loyal to BMW specifically the M3 family... i think its comparing apples to oranges. a porsche gt3 does not compare to a m3. also im sure more m3's are daily driven with higher miles where the gt3's are more of a recreation vehicles with less miles keeping maintenance cost and problems then down...

e30 sold 19,576
e36 sold 71,279
e46 sold 85,000
the above are mass production figures and include special editions
e30 sport evo ...sold 600
e36 gt sold 406
e46 csl sold 1389
and the e9X has sold 31,700 since 2007 most being coupes!

im not sure where porsche stands for annual figures but i know if we were to bring up gt3 or their top end model sales they will be much lower. my point is the 2 really cant be compared ...JUST MY 2 CENTS

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

I dont agree. And you simply cant compare those old Porsche's to new ones. There isnt a single better built car with the fit and finish of a Porsche in the world, and certainly BMW isnt anywhere near their level.

I have owned 2 Porsches, a 911 and Cayman S, and between my father and cousins probably another 10-12 Porsches all of which have been much better than the BMWs we've owned.

Look at dependability and reliability reports, and initial quality, where Porsche since the 997 has been ranking either the top or close to it, and BMW unfortunately has been mediocre at best and generally below industry average. BWM just has to recall 160,000 6 cylinder turbo engines. Their cars have been terribly unreliable and got worse since they went to turbos.

Ok so you are saying porsche is the greatest brand in the world starting in... 2009? 2010? 2011?... Because of consumer reports reliability survey? Was that "initial" reliability reports based on first year of ownership? Maybe you are younger than I but my brand loyalties started far earlier than 2009 and lasts longer than the first year of ownership. My personal real world reliability experience with porsche has been just OK. If I didn't have such a good experience with our 987.2 cayman (from a reliability standpoint) I would say it was horrible. Consumer reports is a great publication that people who don't know $hit about cars use to make buying decisions. My personal reliability experience with seven different BMW's since 1995 has been excellent. Oh and has Porsche ever admitted that the IMS bearing was an issue on all 1999 to 2008 cars?? Many have failed (requiring a full engine rebuild) and porsche never issued a recall... I personally know two people who lost their motor due to the IMS bearing failure. I replaced mine as a preventive measure on my 996 and still lost the motor due to oil starvation... Another weakness of that motor. The car had 40k miles.

To be clear, I like Porsche, I chose to buy another one to replace the 996 that had engine failure... I almost left the brand but gave them another chance. Their 2009 and newer DFI motors are a huge step up in reliability over their old engine architecture. Their Metzger motors have always been great but they aren't without fault. Heard of failing coolant line fittings?

Every brand has issues, some worse than others... Porsche has great initial quality survey results as of late... That's great but take your blinders off and recognize that they are not perfect.

Lastly I might not have said anything if I thought you made an effort to contributing to helping others on this forum. Unfortunately all I see you post is your delusional perspective on all of porsche's perfection and BMW's shortcomings. The OP asked about the gen 1 cayman and all you have to say is that porsche makes the greatest car in the world and he should get one because it blows away all BMW's in every measure... How about adding some actual advice about what modifications the car needs to be the track performer he is looking for? Even if I bought a GT3 I would expect to need to address the coolant fittings and the LSD (OEM LSD doesn't hold up well to track use). If you don't think a 987.1 Cayman needs any modifications to be safely run hard on the track then you have no clue. I think you should spend a little less time reading consumer reports and magazine road tests and more time researching real world track testing. Head over to Rennlist, there is a lot of great information on that forum. Sorry.

[Sebringjetta]

Originally Posted by slicer

Ok so you are saying porsche is the greatest brand in the world starting in... 2009? 2010? 2011?... Because of consumer reports reliability survey? Was that "initial" reliability reports based on first year of ownership? Maybe you are younger than I but my brand loyalties started far earlier than 2009 and lasts longer than the first year of ownership. My personal real world reliability experience with porsche has been just OK. If I didn't have such a good experience with our 987.2 cayman (from a reliability standpoint) I would say it was horrible. Consumer reports is a great publication that people who don't know $hit about cars use to make buying decisions. My personal reliability experience with seven different BMW's since 1995 has been excellent. Oh and has Porsche ever admitted that the IMS bearing was an issue on all 1999 to 2008 cars?? Many have failed (requiring a full engine rebuild) and porsche never issued a recall... I personally know two people who lost their motor due to the IMS bearing failure. I replaced mine as a preventive measure on my 996 and still lost the motor due to oil starvation... Another weakness of that motor. The car had 40k miles.

To be clear, I like Porsche, I chose to buy another one to replace the 996 that had engine failure... I almost left the brand but gave them another chance. Their 2009 and newer DFI motors are a huge step up in reliability over their old engine architecture. Their Metzger motors have always been great but they aren't without fault. Heard of failing coolant line fittings?

Every brand has issues, some worse than others... Porsche has great initial quality survey results as of late... That's great but take your blinders off and recognize that they are not perfect.

Lastly I might not have said anything if I thought you made an effort to contributing to helping others on this forum. Unfortunately all I see you post is your delusional perspective on all of porsche's perfection and BMW's shortcomings. The OP asked about the gen 1 cayman and all you have to say is that porsche makes the greatest car in the world and he should get one because it blows away all BMW's in every measure... How about adding some actual advice about what modifications the car needs to be the track performer he is looking for? Even if I bought a GT3 I would expect to need to address the coolant fittings and the LSD (OEM LSD doesn't hold up well to track use). If you don't think a 987.1 Cayman needs any modifications to be safely run hard on the track then you have no clue. I think you should spend a little less time reading consumer reports and magazine road tests and more time researching real world track testing. Head over to Rennlist, there is a lot of great information on that forum. Sorry.

I AGREE WITH SLICER 100%.. THERE IS NO WAY I COULD HAVE PUT IT AS WELL AS THIS ^^^^ I AM LOYAL BMW AND ALWAYS WILL BE. I HAVE OWNED 1 E30, 3 E36'S, 1 E46 AND NOW A E92.. ALL WERE M3'S AND ALL HAD THEIR OWN ISSUES. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE LOYAL TO AS LONG AS YOU LOVE WHAT YOU DRIVE!!!! NO BRAND IS BETTER THEN THE OTHER.. I TRACK WITH FRIENDS WHO DRIVE HONDAS AND THEY ARE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE AND TAKE ALOT OF PRIDE IN THEM... AND TO BE HONEST 1 OF THEM TURNS SOME INCREDIBLE TIMES BUT THEY TOO HAVE HAD THEIR SHARE OF ISSUES. WOLF I FIND IT STRANGE HOW YOU COME INTO A COMMUNITY WHERE ITS COMPOSED OF BMW M3 ENTHUSIASTS THEN TRY TO PREACH HOW THE M3 CANT COMPARE TO PORSCHE. SOMETHING THAT STRIKES ME EVEN MORE IS MY THREAD IS BASED ON 2 CARS AND HOW THEY WOULD COMPARE ON A TRACK/PERFORMANCE BASED ENVIRONMENT AND YOU HAVE TURNED IT INTO A RELIABILITY/QUALITY COMPARISON...

WOLF YOU MAKE ME WONDER IF YOU HAVE ANY TRACK EXPERIENCE OR EVEN MORE SO HOW MUCH EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE WITH M3'S ...

[Sebringjetta]

by the way consumer reports states porsche in fact has had numerous issues with their blinker fluid and muffler bearings....i belive it 100% AS I READ IT IN http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/index.htm

[Z K]

Lol .. porsche reliability. All car manufacturers have issues, some more than others. I'd say most German cars are not very reliable. Lots of electrical issues and some mechanical ones.

If we wanted reliability, we'd all be driving Hondas and Toyotas. My Camry with 200k miles still runs like new with no issues.

[Da Hapa]

Originally Posted by Z K

Lol .. porsche reliability. All car manufacturers have issues, some more than others. I'd say most German cars are not very reliable. Lots of electrical issues and some mechanical ones.

If we wanted reliability, we'd all be driving Hondas and Toyotas. My Camry with 200k miles still runs like new with no issues.

Agree.

To the OP - I had the pleasure of driving a 2006 Cayman S (6 speed manual with min. options) for about 6 weeks and several thousand miles a few years ago. Absolutely wonderful car. Great balance, and all the road car most drivers could realistically ever really use.

Personally, I'd focus on the later DFI equipped cars but the Cayman is a very well balanced car that still provides a great deal of every day usability.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by slicer

Ok so you are saying porsche is the greatest brand in the world starting in... 2009? 2010? 2011?... Because of consumer reports reliability survey? Was that "initial" reliability reports based on first year of ownership? Maybe you are younger than I but my brand loyalties started far earlier than 2009 and lasts longer than the first year of ownership. My personal real world reliability experience with porsche has been just OK. If I didn't have such a good experience with our 987.2 cayman (from a reliability standpoint) I would say it was horrible. Consumer reports is a great publication that people who don't know $hit about cars use to make buying decisions. My personal reliability experience with seven different BMW's since 1995 has been excellent. Oh and has Porsche ever admitted that the IMS bearing was an issue on all 1999 to 2008 cars?? Many have failed (requiring a full engine rebuild) and porsche never issued a recall... I personally know two people who lost their motor due to the IMS bearing failure. I replaced mine as a preventive measure on my 996 and still lost the motor due to oil starvation... Another weakness of that motor. The car had 40k miles.

To be clear, I like Porsche, I chose to buy another one to replace the 996 that had engine failure... I almost left the brand but gave them another chance. Their 2009 and newer DFI motors are a huge step up in reliability over their old engine architecture. Their Metzger motors have always been great but they aren't without fault. Heard of failing coolant line fittings?

Every brand has issues, some worse than others... Porsche has great initial quality survey results as of late... That's great but take your blinders off and recognize that they are not perfect.

Lastly I might not have said anything if I thought you made an effort to contributing to helping others on this forum. Unfortunately all I see you post is your delusional perspective on all of porsche's perfection and BMW's shortcomings. The OP asked about the gen 1 cayman and all you have to say is that porsche makes the greatest car in the world and he should get one because it blows away all BMW's in every measure... How about adding some actual advice about what modifications the car needs to be the track performer he is looking for? Even if I bought a GT3 I would expect to need to address the coolant fittings and the LSD (OEM LSD doesn't hold up well to track use). If you don't think a 987.1 Cayman needs any modifications to be safely run hard on the track then you have no clue. I think you should spend a little less time reading consumer reports and magazine road tests and more time researching real world track testing. Head over to Rennlist, there is a lot of great information on that forum. Sorry.

Did I say any car didnt have pros and cons. Never said any car was perfect either.

The IMS issues is well know but it is relatively rare - which is why they never did a recall for it. Never warranted a recall such a rod bearing in the e46 m3s.

I ran my Cayman S hard at the track during the period I had it and never had any issues besides worn tires. I am well aware of certain issues it had during that generation.

The M3 needs work to be run hard at the track too.

Just as an aside, there was also a study done of the most cars from any brand still operating and on the road today, can you take a guess as to which that would be?