New M3/M4 reviews are out, thoughts?

[dogbone]

Well, it's sad to see but the reviewers are already bored. They're trying to be delicate saying how nice the brakes and suspension and interior are. But the word is out: BORRRING power plant. They're gonna do a few flashy drifts, and move on to something with power that excites. And I think we're going to be seeing a lot more reviewers who like the non-engine aspects of the car but are entirely underwhelmed by the power plant. And for people to regard an M car's engine with disdain is unfortunate.

The one aspect of this car that is entirely unknown and which will be very interesting to watch is----can it turn aggressive laps on the track and not overheat? If this car can magically avoid overheating, then that single factor will win the hearts of many people. But if this thing overheats like a dog and ultimately feels underpowered compared to the upcoming competition, then I just gotta ask----uh, hello? What the heck BMW?

[FogCityM3]

Hints of trouble

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...-m3-m4-review/

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Hints of trouble

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...-m3-m4-review/

"the worlds first normally aspirated M4"

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Hints of trouble

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...-m3-m4-review/

Sutcliffe has problems with the engine and feel of the car and now this review again mentions problems and it's pretty clear there is trouble in M land.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I'm sorry but the S55 M3 is not faster than the S65 M3. Period, end of story. Sure drag racing on the streets on a 70 degree day, you will put a few car lengths on the older M3 by the 1/4 mile mark, but that's how kids compare cars. Lets go to a local track. Specifically, a 3-4 mile circuit with plenty of turns and say maybe only one straight. Oh yes, and lets do this mid summer in the US South west. That's a 80-100 degree day. Next lets have two expert drivers in each car. Lets try and do 20 back to back hard laps with both cars.

1. The new M3 won't do more than 5 laps without pegging the oil guage at 300F, and limp home.

2. The new M3's 5th lap time will be at least 5 seconds slower than it's first.

3. The old M3 will finish the test

4. A look at the old M3's lap times will show that as the driver learned the course, his lap times got faster, thus lap 15-20 were run at or faster than laps 1-5.

Although I do like the extremely well organized, crystal ball type of argument, it is definitely unfair to extrapolate from current non M turbo I6 phenomena (stock or modded) to what will happen with the new M4. From the technical literature BMW have clearly but some engineering effort into cooling. Which is precisely what is needed for track work and high environmental temperatures. It is also exactly what the weekend warriors don't do with their tuned non M turbo I6 cars.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Although I do like the extremely well organized, crystal ball type of argument, it is definitely unfair to extrapolate from current non M turbo I6 phenomena (stock or modded) to what will happen with the new M4. From the technical literature BMW have clearly but some engineering effort into cooling. Which is precisely what is needed for track work and high environmental temperatures. It is also exactly what the weekend warriors don't do with their tuned non M turbo I6 cars.

i would be shocked to see BMW M3 with heating/cooling problems. although i can see problems when people try to mess around with boost

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

The M4 is all about balance and being a good daily driver while still having track performance. The problem is is that the Stingray, GTR, etc are good daily drivers as well and offer better track performance. Most of the reviews are good yet a few of them mention how the car is "cold" and "uninspiring". The previous gen M's weren't always the fastest but they had the most soul and best driving feeling while the M4 is all about electronics to boost track time but it looks like some of the visceral feedback and connectedness is now missing. And we all know BMW will do a LCI and change/improve a bunch of stuff in the coming years so I plan to keep the e92 hopefully forever and get a LCI M4 when the time comes if it makes a worthy competitor to its rivals but knowing that a Stingray, Camaro, GTR, and others will eat the M4 at the track plus offer a comfortable daily driver is not a fun feeling and I don't believe the M4 is the benchmark this generation. The Stingray most likely will be.

All those criticisms apply doubly to the GTR, which is the pinnacle of having all aspects of the car's performance relegated to the computer. The M4 has some serious competition this time around and doesn't appeal to me if I'm looking for a sporty two-door, but the M3 looks to be a sweet sedan.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Hints of trouble

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...-m3-m4-review/

I already mentioned the complexities of an electronically controlled wastegate turbo system in a previous post, but it was ignored by the fans. touché.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Although I do like the extremely well organized, crystal ball type of argument, it is definitely unfair to extrapolate from current non M turbo I6 phenomena (stock or modded) to what will happen with the new M4. From the technical literature BMW have clearly but some engineering effort into cooling. Which is precisely what is needed for track work and high environmental temperatures. It is also exactly what the weekend warriors don't do with their tuned non M turbo I6 cars.

Note that: BMW programming starts cutting timing in boosted cars after 240F oil temps. And again, we have tried tracking with two massive ER oil coolers. Only meth works with BMW's application. You just can't get around the oil and water touching something that's 1,600F. It's simple physics people.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Note that: BMW programming stats cutting timing in boosted cars after 240F oil temps. And again, we have tried tracking with two massive ER oil coolers. Only meth works with BMW's application. You just can't get around the oil and water touching something that's 1,600F. It's simple physics people.

If it is just simple physics then there can not exist any reliable turbo charged race cars... I'm as keen as the next guy to see how prone the new car may be to any sort of power reduction or limp mode on a hot day under hard track use. However, concluding a certain problem now is premature. Can you explain how your (or another suitably modded) 335i cooling SYSTEM is similar to the M4s cooling SYSTEM?

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Looks to me that M has done a commendable job with this new model, and I look forward to testing one, perhaps owning in a few years.

They've also done a good job focusing on the advantages of this new model over the previous (selling it).

But I do find some of the engine talk amusing. This new engine is a product of regulations and restrictions, it is not the product of self-directed M engineering. If a turbo engine was best suited to be the heart of M cars, then historically that would be the case. Regulations dictated a move in this direction, and not so coincidentally we're now being sold on torque and efficiency. A sort of "look what we found!" as if that wasn't possible all along.

I'll bet the new engine is a real accomplishment, but I don't buy into the idea that it's truly the direction that M wanted to go, and it's not necessarily what I want.

Truly Objective Post

[MrPrena]

I just don't get when people call e9x owner jealous of new M3/4.
If we like the new M3/4, we will go ahead and order one.

Those who tend to call us fanboy/fantard seems to be mainly non E9x M owners.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

I just don't get when people call e9x owner jealous of new M3/4.
If we like the new M3/4, we will go ahead and order one.

Those who tend to call us fanboy/fantard seems to be mainly non E9x M owners.

Yeah they are practically the same price and most of us with an e9x could get one if we wanted so it's really goofy that anyone who criticizes the M4 is called jealous or a troll. It just shows the demographic that the M4 is attracting.

[JRV]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

Yeah they are practically the same price and most of us with an e9x could get one if we wanted so it's really goofy that anyone who criticizes the M4 is called jealous or a troll. It just shows the demographic that the M4 is attracting.

It's so ridiculous...just not that interested in the next gen and some peoples heads explode wen they hear it.

[TrevorM3]

carbon ceramics for 10k? Lmao, bmw can kick rocks.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Hints of trouble

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...-m3-m4-review/

Man the car is heavy. 3600 lbs as I said from the beginning. The lack of steering is not a surprise, I knew they wouldn't do EPS as well as Porsche.
Seems like this car is basically a sightly better handling M5/6. Quick in a straight, and underpowered obviously but isolated, lacking feel and just nothing exciting about it.
Granted, I haven't driven one but not really excited about one either.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Man the car is heavy. 3600 lbs as I said from the beginning. The lack of steering is not a surprise, I knew they wouldn't do EPS as well as Porsche.
Seems like this car is basically a sightly better handling M5/6. Quick in a straight, and underpowered obviously but isolated, lacking feel and just nothing exciting about it.
Granted, I haven't driven one but not really excited about one either.

That's the problem with this generation of M's. They are good cars but they are boring and missing something that previous gens had.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

That's the problem with this generation of M's. They are good cars but they are boring and missing something that previous gens had.

Yea, they seem to have regressed in the qualitative areas (feel, precision etc) and moved into cars that are not much better than mercs used to be as stoplight to stoplight cars.

Other manuf. have gotten better, MORE exciting and BMW seems to be dulling themselves down to straight line boats.

[gthal]

Well, if there is good news in this discussion it is that the battle between previous and future generation owners is not limited to the C6/C7 crowd It's good to know the debate over generational changes is alive and well across all brands, makes and models

[fatpanda]

Originally Posted by car_fan

Truly Objective Post

prob only lamborghini is left still making high V10s... saw the huracan n its bloody nice lol

[JRV]

Originally Posted by gthal

Well, if there is good news in this discussion it is that the battle between previous and future generation owners is not limited to the C6/C7 crowd It's good to know the debate over generational changes is alive and well across all brands, makes and models

Isn't the C7 a huge improvement in every department aside from subjective looks? It's not like GM decided to slap on a V6 turbo this time around. I think it's a bit different. The corvette remained what a corvette is.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by JRV

Isn't the C7 a huge improvement in every department aside from subjective looks? It's not like GM decided to slap on a V6 turbo this time around. I think it's a bit different. The corvette remained what a corvette is.

Yes. And exactly to the bolded part.

Is the new M3/M4 a new gen Grand National? hahah