The Cold S65 - How to warm it up, Properly

[dreamspeed]

I idle until the cold cycle is completed, if I don't, the finicky transmission starts bucking

[Shaan]

do all the steps that have been discussed here, except for letting it warm while idling. My question is (might sound like paranoia) do you have to wait until the temperature absolutely at/past 210 degrees? I usually dont drive the car more than 10-15 miles one way and when its cold it doesn't quite reach 210 but its almost there. I'm assuming its okay to go past 3k RPMs if its almost at 210/the rev limiter is at the 8300 RPM, correct?

[WingZeroX5]

The only thing I have an issue with understanding is...if idling is so bad, then stopping at traffic lights and miserable NYC traffic is just as bad?

I always warm up my cars in the winter time until warm air is blowing (about 50/60 degrees).

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by WingZeroX5

The only thing I have an issue with understanding is...if idling is so bad, then stopping at traffic lights and miserable NYC traffic is just as bad?

I always warm up my cars in the winter time until warm air is blowing (about 50/60 degrees).

Oil would be up to temp at that point however.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by e92zero

How will you stick these to the oil pan in the M3? The re-enforcement plate on the bottom pretty much covered the entire oil pan and only has 2 opening for the oil drain plugs.

Remove the reinforcement plate, install the adhesive backed pan heater pad, route the electrical cord to a semi convenient place, and reinstall the reinforcement plate. The pad is not even 1/4 inch thick. It is also flexible, and while it ideally is installed on the bottom, it can wrap around the side.

[mxa121]

Originally Posted by Shaan

do all the steps that have been discussed here, except for letting it warm while idling. My question is (might sound like paranoia) do you have to wait until the temperature absolutely at/past 210 degrees? I usually dont drive the car more than 10-15 miles one way and when its cold it doesn't quite reach 210 but its almost there. I'm assuming its okay to go past 3k RPMs if its almost at 210/the rev limiter is at the 8300 RPM, correct?

No. The user manual explicitly defines normal operating temperature from 175 F up to 250 F. If your oil temp is hovering around 190 F, there is no reason to baby it.
And, "is it okay to go past 3k RPMs" no one knows, since 3k RPM limit is a made up number to make people feel good...

[DKX4///M]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

"I think of the engine as a pump in this case, and increasing RPMs affect oil pressure, is this accurate?"
This bit is not totally correct in the sense that the S65 has a volume controlled oil pump with an oil pressure relief valve set to ~90 psi....ie the pump has a flow rate target not a pressure target. You put in thinner oil you will get the same flow rate but a lower pressure.

+10000

I don't know any vehicle in which oil pressures increase with RPM. Oil pressure is one of the few things that stay consistent in modern 4 stroke engines.

It's possible there could be exceptions.

As he said, it's around 90 psi in the s65, which is def higher than the average engine. It will briefly raise with a rapid acceleration in engine speed, or briefly lower on rapid deceleration...But this is probably only about 5-10 psi tops and only for a brief spurt...

No matter what RPM it will always return to homeostasis if working properly.

[gatorfast]

I just start my car before going to sleep. Engine is always warm in the morning. The garage stinks though.

[chadwick]

Originally Posted by DKM3Power

+10000

I don't know any vehicle in which oil pressures increase with RPM. Oil pressure is one of the few things that stay consistent in modern 4 stroke engines.

It's possible there could be exceptions.

The Chrysler 3.6L Pentastar must be one of those. It varies pressure by RPM, and is documented as such. 5-139psi between 600-1200rpm, 30-139psi between 1201-3500 rpm, and 62-139psi between 3501-6400rpm.

I swear the LSx engines I've had before were similar, but that's been enough years my brain might be mush about it.

[DKX4///M]

Originally Posted by chadwick

The Chrysler 3.6L Pentastar must be one of those. It varies pressure by RPM, and is documented as such. 5-139psi between 600-1200rpm, 30-139psi between 1201-3500 rpm, and 62-139psi between 3501-6400rpm.

I swear the LSx engines I've had before were similar, but that's been enough years my brain might be mush about it.

Like I said Im sure there are many exceptions. But most have built in pressure relief valves.

That was one thing I learned almost 15 years ago in Basic Auto Tech class, and backed up by years turning wrenches for a living. And I do recall there being cars that did fluctuate more with engine speed., but it was a minority of them.

The basic reason for this as I understood it is that the higher the pressure the more likely the oil will become aerated. Which destroys its ability to lubricate properly. This is especially important on high revving engines like the s65.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Old school cars that I owned with simple direct drive oil pumps had oil pressures around 20 psi at idle rising to a maximum of ~75 psi at medium revs (when the pressure relief valve opened).
There are a few S65 M3 owners who have fitted after market oil pressure gauges and ISTR a couple reporting a maximum peak at ~90 psi so I guessed at that psi being the value of the pressure relief valve....which I have to agree seems a little on the high side.
"As in the S85, the volume flow-controlled main oil pump is a hinged-valve oil pump with a feed capacity adjusted to suit the VANOS low-pressure system." Also "The oil supply is also guaranteed at extreme longitudinal and lateral accelerations of up to
1.4 times the normal gravitational acceleration"
The S85 oil pump was internally regulated to produce up to 5 bar (~73 psi) oil pressure so I would assume that the S65 is equally set to the same pressure. Outside the oil pump there is an oil filter bypass valve, a pressure limiting valve and an oil pressure regulation line. Apart from this, there is scant information on these pumps in the public domain....such as whether the pump includes any thermal regulation to account for cold oil.

[Benji17]

My local BMW mastertech told me to let it run for 2-3 mins tops, then hop in and keep it under 4500 RPM until it hits the quarter way warm mark, after that he told me just watch the redline limits on the Tach, he said once it slides all they way down let her rip tater chip. That being said, i have been keeping it chill until about 180 oil temp. Im glad i saw this post, i came from a 370z and i would let her sit for 10 mins warming up :/

[crypticc]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

About the ultimate warm up procedure....

Start by warming the engine up to a temperature of 80°C by circulating hot coolant through the engine and radiators !
Thinking on a F1 engine (previous NA engine) that can rev up to a maximum of 18,000 rpm.
Unlike our everyday road cars, an F1 engine cannot be started from cold due to the very tight bearing and piston-to-bore clearances , and is estimated to be around 800 horsepower !
That engine would blown at start up without this procedure !
DTM engines have the same warm up procedure and would be also the ultimate warm up procedure for our stock S65 thinking about blown S65's and all the bearing troubles .
Only we need the right connectors on the right place.....
Think with this warm up procedure our S65 would last forever !
Here is more => http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-new...1?artid=157706

Interesting video. So this ( seems ) to confirm cold start which varies the engine speed and makes manoeuvring tricky is good, and cold start delete bad...probably we need to remove all cars on non factory tune from the failure statistics

There's also a very solid reason not to idle without moving. For dct at least the transmission oil is warmed by the engine coolant, which means if you're not moving the engine will take longer to warm up as the challenge of warming the dct oil isn't shared with the moving parts of the gearbox.

Finally I disable stop/start as that cannot help.

I wonder what the split of bearing failures, cold climate, non standard tune, stop/start, dct/manual, would be?

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

This....ALL BMWs now use variable pressure oil pumps. So idling with no power applied with result in very low oil pressure.

Easy driving and light use of the gas will protect the cold engine while promoting proper lubrication throughout the engine.

Cheers,
AA777

This is incorrect information. The pumps are not variable pressure, they are variable displacement. This means that once the pressure setting of the compensator is reached the pump displacement is reduced to keep pressure constant.

A variable displacement pump is actually more likely to gave consistent pressure than a fixed displacement pump because pump flow (displacement) is adjusted to control pressure rather than a relief valve setting max pressure and sending additional pump flow back to the sump. A fixed displacement pump can only change the flow rate by increasing engine RPM.

I have posted graphs of an S65 with oil pump flow, pressure, temperature and RPM.

[Maypo]

That's a slick video. The best part is that the work is performed by Dawn Treader Performance Engineering. I am assuming that name is a nod to C.S. Lewis.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by crypticc

Interesting video. So this ( seems ) to confirm cold start which varies the engine speed and makes manoeuvring tricky is good, and cold start delete bad...probably we need to remove all cars on non factory tune from the failure statistics

There's also a very solid reason not to idle without moving. For dct at least the transmission oil is warmed by the engine coolant, which means if you're not moving the engine will take longer to warm up as the challenge of warming the dct oil isn't shared with the moving parts of the gearbox.

Finally I disable stop/start as that cannot help.

I wonder what the split of bearing failures, cold climate, non standard tune, stop/start, dct/manual, would be?

Where are you deducing that information from the video? The cold-start cycle is designed to pump hot gas through the exhaust system in order to warm up the catalytic converters and therefore reduce emissions. It does so by leaning out the fuel mixture (more air than gasoline) so the EGTs are high and pollutant content low.

I would tend to think that if the cold-start cycle has any effect on engine oil warming at all, it would be very slight.

[squartus]

Yea from any tech iv talked to, cold start is simply to warm up the cats and thats it.

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Where are you deducing that information from the video? The cold-start cycle is designed to pump hot gas through the exhaust system in order to warm up the catalytic converters and therefore reduce emissions. It does so by leaning out the fuel mixture (more air than gasoline) so the EGTs are high and pollutant content low.

The external air pump flows fresh air into the exhaust ports and this creates more complete burning/after-burning of the rich cold start mixture and adds heat into the exhaust stream. Not only does this help warm-up the cats, but it also keeps unburned fuel out of them. The "leaning" of the mixture is post-combustion chamber so that the car can still run well cold.

[G80indy]

Interesting.
I drive gently until the oil level registers. By then oil is at temp and Tach dial is ready. I takes 15-20 minutes

[crypticc]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Where are you deducing that information from the video? The cold-start cycle is designed to pump hot gas through the exhaust system in order to warm up the catalytic converters and therefore reduce emissions. It does so by leaning out the fuel mixture (more air than gasoline) so the EGTs are high and pollutant content low.

I would tend to think that if the cold-start cycle has any effect on engine oil warming at all, it would be very slight.

The cold start lightly tweaks the revs until the oil is circulated at least a little.... The video suggests the engineers do similar to avoid harmonics destroying the engine before or oil circulated.
Or did I miss something?

[G80indy]

Yeah that harmonics inference is intriguing .....
Inherent to all V8s or just this "tight" F1 version?

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by crypticc

The cold start lightly tweaks the revs until the oil is circulated at least a little.... The video suggests the engineers do similar to avoid harmonics destroying the engine before or oil circulated.
Or did I miss something?

Maybe. By far the biggest thing I took away from that video is the device to circulate pre-heated oil through the engine before the ignition is even started. It would be sweet to have oil already at 210 F the moment you start up.