Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake and Pulley INDEPENDENT dyno test

[armyav8tor]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

i see what you mean, but im not convinced it will result in a huge difference.

either way, we shall see



sorry to disappoint you

i started the thread now because I am A ) looking for advice on what data to log so i can make it the best test possible and B ) looking for a BT tool to use

I am running the AA green filter as stated in the OP. I may try to clean it, but it only has 2k miles on it.

Ops my bad, didn't see that. But you know the suspense is going to kill me! :P

[pbonsalb]

I don't have any doubt about the pulley making power. My butt dyno revealed that. The drop in filter, I am not so sure about, although it adds a little induction noise.

Could you test the filter first, since that is the more questionable power adder.

[BASELINE]

For the sake of science, and the good of the community. You should baseline your runs with an OEM filter, after that you could test the Green if you want as well, to see the change from your own previous setup. That way you'll have a OEM vs MS2, and also some other number comparing a regular drop-in vs an intake that changes other hardware. It would still be valuable information as many people have drop-ins, wonder if going MS2 is worth the upgrade.

But comparing a drop in to the MS2 intake is not what the vendor is doing, and would make any implied foul play on numbers or straight comparisons invalid.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

i specifically mentioned that i am not accusing anyone of foul play, but i am the kind of guy (as a lot of forum members are) who likes to erase all doubt and see it for myself.

we will have a 100 percent controlled experiment and log a tremendous amount of data which is not provided by EAS (not saying they should provide it). i think this test and data will provide good information for the community and will remove all doubt as to whether these mods work or not.

it would be great if I received the same results you did

well i don't think you're accusing anyone of foul play. i guess i'm just curious what you're hoping to measure, if its not the exact same thing already measured by EAS. the only thing I can see as offering something different, would be a before and after dyno of the intake on a bone-stock car - which mine was not (and it appears yours is also not).

[BMWJ]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

I wouldn't worry about that too much.

There are plenty of gains shown by EAS on a car with an X Pipe also.

We used to do an intake a long time ago and we used the get very similar gains on both X Pipe and non X Pipe cars.

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

i see what you mean, but im not convinced it will result in a huge difference.

either way, we shall see

Cool, well let's hope we get good data to analyze.

[THE TECH]

In for results!

[tinpot]

Subscribed.... Looking forward to the results

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by BASELINE

For the sake of science, and the good of the community. You should baseline your runs with an OEM filter, after that you could test the Green if you want as well, to see the change from your own previous setup. That way you'll have a OEM vs MS2, and also some other number comparing a regular drop-in vs an intake that changes other hardware. It would still be valuable information as many people have drop-ins, wonder if going MS2 is worth the upgrade.

But comparing a drop in to the MS2 intake is not what the vendor is doing, and would make any implied foul play on numbers or straight comparisons invalid.

I dont have an OEM filter.

The vendors still claim a gain in power from the air filter to the full stage 2 intake. This has been stated in many threads.

This test will prove that one way or the other.

Thanks guys. Still looking for a BT cable in Houston.....

[BPMSport]

In for results too. I have been happy with my MS II intake. I appreciate independant approaches.

[tinpot]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I don't have any doubt about the pulley making power. My butt dyno revealed that. The drop in filter, I am not so sure about, although it adds a little induction noise.

Could you test the filter first, since that is the more questionable power adder.

On my car, a real dyno proved a pully makes no power....

I doubt the intake will make power, either, since so many posts about intakes and pulleys fail to show before and after dyno pulls. On the otherhand, if the MS Stage 2 intake makes power based on KennyPowers' dyno tests I'll be buying one!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by tinpot

On my car, a real dyno proved a pully makes no power....

I doubt the intake will make power, either, since so many posts about intakes and pulleys fail to show before and after dyno pulls. On the otherhand, if the MS Stage 2 intake makes power based on KennyPowers' dyno tests I'll be buying one!

i totally agree, though hope that we are both wrong

either way, the intake sounds cool so im good to go there and the price was super cheap.

i still dont have a BT tool, so if i dont have this by this weekend we may have to make due with before and after dynos alone and DRF files. I will make sure that the car is equally cooled down during each set of runs and will administer 2 minute wait times between dyno runs.


daniel, do you happen to have a copy of those dyno results?

[Black Gold]

THE PARTS are on the way, and scheduled to arrive Friday. I am hopeful that I can get this done on Saturday, but we will have to see. It may slide to next week. I will update this today.

[tinpot]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

daniel, do you happen to have a copy of those dyno results?

Yes - all dynos were from a Dyno Jet at Driver Source. I'll dig these up and send the links.

Here's a summary of my dyno results:

• Stock: 324 whp
• Fabseepd xpipe w/HFCs and Powerchip tune: 352 whp
• Fabseepd xpipe w/HFCs, RDSport Exhaust, AA Pulley, MS filter, Powerchip tune: 347 whp (the loss of 5 whp has been attributed to the ECU adapting -- or so I'm told). In any case, this dyno shows no power gains from the pulley, filter, or exhaust. I've had a couple more dynos in different weather conditions and I consistently hit ~347 whp.

The Fabspeed xpipe and tune gave me a ~27 whp bump. Adding other aftermarket parts (i.e., exhaust, pulley, and filter) provided 0 whp benefit.

I'm now running the full Akra exhaust with ESS tune and I'll dyno my car again at Driver Source.

[pbonsalb]

Your results are contrary to those of most other results on the pulley. I am not sure why they are contrary, but generally, the outlier results such as yours are the ones to toss aside.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by tinpot

Yes - all dynos were from a Dyno Jet at Driver Source. I'll dig these up and send the links.

Here's a summary of my dyno results:

• Stock: 324 whp
• Fabseepd xpipe w/HFCs and Powerchip tune: 352 whp
• Fabseepd xpipe w/HFCs, RDSport Exhaust, AA Pulley, MS filter, Powerchip tune: 347 whp (the loss of 5 whp has been attributed to the ECU adapting -- or so I'm told). In any case, this dyno shows no power gains from the pulley, filter, or exhaust. I've had a couple more dynos in different weather conditions and I consistently hit ~347 whp.

The Fabspeed xpipe and tune gave me a ~27 whp bump. Adding other aftermarket parts (i.e., exhaust, pulley, and filter) provided 0 whp benefit.

I'm now running the full Akra exhaust with ESS tune and I'll dyno my car again at Driver Source.

...and you tested on the same day, on the same dyno, with the car strapped down the whole time right? Once you get into changes of 10whp or so on a ~350-400whp car, you really need to control the testing. One det event and a little timing retard could make that difference. It could easily be attributed to weather, gas, etc.

[tinpot]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

...and you tested on the same day, on the same dyno, with the car strapped down the whole time right? Once you get into changes of 10whp or so on a ~350-400whp car, you really need to control the testing. One det event and a little timing retard could make that difference. It could easily be attributed to weather, gas, etc.

My car wasn't dyno'd on the same day. However, the car was dyno’d in different weather conditions and consistently hit 347 whp (the car was strapped down and used the same gear in all dyno's).

My point is the xpipe with HFCs provided obvious gains over stock (there is no margin of error here); the other parts don’t provide obvious gains (in fact, the parts don’t provide any gains). I liked the sound and looks of my RD Sport exhaust so I can live with the fact the exhaust doesn’t make power, but the pulley and filter are just a waste of money (IMO).

Anyway, back on topic: KennyPowers approach should help determine if the intake and/or pulley make power.

[tha_good_life]

In for the results. I'm thinking of going this route and curious if the same result can be replicated from EAS. They have done numerous of test on the same setup and all has great results!

[tinpot]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Your results are contrary to those of most other results on the pulley. I am not sure why they are contrary, but generally, the outlier results such as yours are the ones to toss aside.

To keep this post on topic, could you PM me dyno results showing a pully making power? I'm more than happy to say my results are a outlier if you can show me a pulley making power on an M3.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by tinpot

My car wasn't dyno'd on the same day. However, the car was dyno’d in different weather conditions and consistently hit 347 whp (the car was strapped down and used the same gear in all dyno's).

My point is the xpipe with HFCs provided obvious gains over stock (there is no margin of error here); the other parts don’t provide obvious gains (in fact, the parts don’t provide any gains). I liked the sound and looks of my RD Sport exhaust so I can live with the fact the exhaust doesn’t make power, but the pulley and filter are just a waste of money (IMO).

Anyway, back on topic: KennyPowers approach should help determine if the intake and/or pulley make power.

Sure the front section exhaust mod makes huge gains.

A rear exhaust alone doesn't make significant power - Evolve showed this in their exhaust research for their valved exhaust. However, the pulley and intakes have been shown to make power repeatedly - albeit minor. The only real debate at this point is if the elbow of the S2 intake itself makes significant power, or if it is just the filter. Personally, I don't believe you are going to be able to measure this on a dyno as the change is likely too small. It will require a pressure test to really prove the reduction in restriction.

You must have the only M3 in the world that dynos the exact same power in different conditions : )

[tinpot]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

You must have the only M3 in the world that dynos the exact same power in different conditions : )

After correction I was within 1 or 2 whp.

[SoTempted]

Jesus, results already!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by tinpot

Yes - all dynos were from a Dyno Jet at Driver Source. I'll dig these up and send the links.

Here's a summary of my dyno results:

• Stock: 324 whp
• Fabseepd xpipe w/HFCs and Powerchip tune: 352 whp
• Fabseepd xpipe w/HFCs, RDSport Exhaust, AA Pulley, MS filter, Powerchip tune: 347 whp (the loss of 5 whp has been attributed to the ECU adapting -- or so I'm told). In any case, this dyno shows no power gains from the pulley, filter, or exhaust. I've had a couple more dynos in different weather conditions and I consistently hit ~347 whp.

The Fabspeed xpipe and tune gave me a ~27 whp bump. Adding other aftermarket parts (i.e., exhaust, pulley, and filter) provided 0 whp benefit.

I'm now running the full Akra exhaust with ESS tune and I'll dyno my car again at Driver Source.

lets go on the same day