Improving 40mph turns

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

He has a weekly podcast that is quite good as well. I'm more of an auditory learner and I like to listen several times, so that is what appeals the most to me. Th book is great though.

I have been listening to the podcasts.
However, it is mostly chit-chat with someone.
Not finding it too educational or contributing to dropping laptime.

[roastbeef]

right, i'm selective in which ones i listen to. there are about 65 of them, and a fair amount of chatter.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

right, i'm selective in which ones i listen to. there are about 65 of them, and a fair amount of chatter.

can u recommend specific ones?

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

right, i'm selective in which ones i listen to. there are about 65 of them, and a fair amount of chatter.

I really enjoy these podcasts. I have a 40 minute drive to work so the length is perfect. There was one recently on "flow". One of the consistent feedback I get from my friend/coach is that I am too tense. You could really see it my forearms and hands. I have been doing TT for the last 5 years and you really only get a few chances to set a good lap to be competitive. I have also got pretty hung up on tires. Basically not believing that I could set my best times unless I went out Sunday morning with sticker A7's.

To illustrate this point, my target time at VIR this season is 1:59.xx. My best time last year (first weekend at track) was a 2:02.xx in August on 2nd HC A7's.

I figured that it would be possible in cooler weather. This March we ran in a mix of rain and snow, but on Sunday the snow had melted and track was nearly perfect. I had run a 2:03 the previous day on some pretty old A7's. So Sunday morning I slap on stickers, drive my butt off and end up at 2:05. WTF?

I then got into a conversation with some folks on RL on how to go fast at VIR and they sent me some AIM data and links to videos. I drive an E46M3 in TT3 trim (basically 10:1 wt to Hp). The data was from some caymans that are basically equivalent. These guys were laying down 2:00's in race conditions with traffic on scrubs with what looked like no effort. We were close in most spots but they're hustling through the corners much better than me. We were similar in climbing esses.

Which made me think back to the best lap I ever ran in my life. It was at TWS on DE day on 4 HC Hankooks. The TT3 track record at the time was 1:48.5. I had run a couple of 1:48's that morning and was quite happy. I was prepared to leave before lunch that day, but guy at track blew his Vanos return line and we spent lunch installing a spare that I had. By the time we finished and had lunch there was another session about to start up so I said what the heck. I ended up running a 1:47.xx. It felt effortless. That was the closest to a state of "flow" that I ever remember. I think it was partly set up by the fact that I had no expectations and I was also trying to get by this Corvette. I have linked the video below for your viewing pleasure.

So where am I going with this? I think I basically have the skillset and car to break 2:00 at VIR. I still need to tidy up a few bits for sure and find a bit more courage through the climbing esses, but I think the main factor will be to get out of my own way and into a state of "flow." I don't plan on worrying about tires or traffic. I also don't plan to worry about how many laps. I am planning to go next month with Chin. They have the best DE program on this coast and will give me the best chance to achieve flow. Lap times will be secondary.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

So where am I going with this? I think I basically have the skillset and car to break 2:00 at VIR.

I wish you the best tackling 2:00. Let us know how it went

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by rhyary

can u recommend specific ones?

my top recommendation is the "tune your car's handling" webinar. it isn't up on the website yet, but if you email ross, he can give you access. it costs money, but it is 6 hours of gold. i paid $99, and it was money well spent. literally covers everything you're dealing with in this thread.

as for the specific podcasts... we all have different things we need to focus on. weak points and strong points. you'll have to take a look at the title of the podcast and maybe listen for a few minutes to see if it is relevant to your interests. some of the stuff is just chatter and entertainment, but a majority of it is great content. this guy is 100% dedicated to improvement, sometimes i find a little tidbit of useful info that i wasn't really looking for when listening on a subject that might not be obviously relevant.
there are a few with colin braun that are pretty damn good. another one i recently found interesting was on hydration. sounded boring, ended up being really interesting.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

as for the specific podcasts... we all have different things we need to focus on. weak points and strong points.

I've observed that weak points are mostly consistent up until the upper advanced groups. I can jump in a 2-3 event novice car and they are within a "range". In really broad strokes...it usually goes:

1. Learn the track
2. Looking ahead/safety/flags
3. Smooth steering wheel inputs
4. Smooth throttle inputs
5. Heel-toe downshift
6. Braking

Then once you get to 7 is when lap times start dropping because the student should be thinking about stuff like how inputs affect the car balance. Then all of the advanced skills like throttle steer, trail brake, etc. is where you start seeing personal strengths and weaknesses.

I've never instructed anyone that could threshold brake smoothly and not have good steering wheel and throttle inputs.

[rhyary]

Continue with suspension tuning.
i was looking at a picture taken from behind at turn 12 at NYST. it is pretty sharp right turn going down hill. The picture shows the inside wheels. This was on the day the rear rebound was to much and before I set the Low speed adjuster to 8. While I am ok with the inside front been a bit lifted. I was not happy to see the inside rear 3/4 off the tarmac. To my thinking it explains the rear coming around twice that day.

Forward to today. I decided to add LS damping to the front, now set to 6. and one click to shaft damping, now set to 5. I went to a ride on my test loop near my house. I have to say that first, I feel the difference. Second, it may actually allow me to transition better into the 40-50mph turns and carry more speed through.

Next track day is Wed at Lime Rock. Will give it a shot with the new settings. but will drop to 7 and 4 if it feels strange on a new track.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

once you hit the quote button, it takes you to the screen where you type your message. simply delete the text you don't want. i use it to keep posts shorter and more direct to what i'm responding to.

i know, that is the point. tire pressure is more telling and more important than a pyrometer reading across a tire's tread. tire tread temps can be off because of to much pressure. you can check with a pyrometer and adjust camber all day long and still have a tire pressure problem.

keep an eye on the tread grain and how the tire is wearing. is the outside edge getting chewed up (too little camber)? is the inside edge scrubbing away too early and you can't seem to brake like you used to (too much camber)? most of the time, this is a tire pressure issue.

But doesn't a pyrometer give you an early indication of whether the camber setting is good - prior to irregular tire wear as an indicator? I would rather correct irregular wear before it happens.... Plus tire temperatures accross the tread can help you determine if the tire pressure you are using is correct. In other words, I agree that tire pressure is an important variable but a pyrometer is a tool that will help guide you to the right pressure. Is my understanding flawed?

Edit - I better understand your point after seeing the video/data in the post I quoted below. Still - I think there is some benefit to a pyrometer (better than nothing) for early detection as long as you can get someone to help you take the readings right after you exit the track.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by dparm

You want something like this which ties into an existing datalogger and actually reads tire temps across the entire width of the tire in real-time:

http://izzeracing.com/products/tire-...m-systems.html


Overlaying the temperature graphs with the other AIM data can really help you see the relationship between tire stress and a given corner. It's truly amazing.

Wow! That's awesome. I didn't know this existed

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by slicer

But doesn't a pyrometer give you an early indication of whether the camber setting is good - prior to irregular tire wear as an indicator? I would rather correct irregular wear before it happens.... Plus tire temperatures accross the tread can help you determine if the tire pressure you are using is correct. In other words, I agree that tire pressure is an important variable but a pyrometer is a tool that will help guide you to the right pressure. Is my understanding flawed?

Edit - I better understand your point after seeing the video/data in the post I quoted below. Still - I think there is some benefit to a pyrometer (better than nothing) for early detection as long as you can get someone to help you take the readings right after you exit the track.

It's one of many tools available. I don't think they are completely useless, but they need to be used properly before the heat spreads throughout the tire carcass. As the video shows, it is quite variable.
I, too, was surprised to hear some professionals were rather dismissive to the tools usefulness.

[rhyary]

For June 2nd and 3rd it is time for maximum camber. It is going to be the forth track day on these cheap tires.

[rhyary]

Well just "shoving" the struts was not sitting well with me so got an alignment on maximum camber. Here are my settings going into two track days this weekend:

Front
Camber: -3.07
Toe: 0.0
Thrust: does not say
Custer: does not say

Rear:
camber: -1.55
Toe: 0.04
Thrust: 0.00

I am not sure how the dealer was measuring hight, buf it was on the printout.

Front Ride Hight: 600mm
Rear Ride Hight: 595mm
.
.

[cherry-m3]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Well just "shoving" the struts was not sitting well with me so got an alignment on maximum camber. Here are my settings going into two track days this weekend:

Front
Camber: -3.07
Toe: 0.0
Thrust: does not say
Custer: does not say

Rear:
camber: -1.55
Toe: 0.04
Thrust: 0.00

I am not sure how the dealer was measuring hight, buf it was on the printout.

Front Ride Hight: 600mm
Rear Ride Hight: 595mm
.
.

You're going to the dealer for an alignment? Why not find a race shop and get a 4 corner alignment with a high end suspension setup like that?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by cherry-m3

You're going to the dealer for an alignment? Why not find a race shop and get a 4 corner alignment with a high end suspension setup like that?

Necessity.
Otherwise, I do go to a shop you describe but that is 2 hours away and I have two track days tomorrow.

BTW, converted to decimals, here are the numbers:

Front
Camber: -3.12
Toe: 0.0

Rear:
camber: -1.92
Toe: 0.12 Total (0.06 each side)
Thrust: 0.00

[Datka]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Necessity.
Otherwise, I do go to a shop you describe but that is 2 hours away and I have two track days tomorrow.

Hey whats up man. It was nice to meet you the other day at LRP.
Which track day are you going?
And how is it possible to have two track days in one day

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Datka

Hey whats up man. It was nice to meet you the other day at LRP.
Which track day are you going?
And how is it possible to have two track days in one day

Was nice to meet you too.
NYST. You should come this summer.
...Tomorrow and Sunday

[rhyary]

[Update]
I just finished two days at NYST.
The first day (Sat) the car session had two cars. Myself and E60 M5. So basically track for myself for 7 sessions. since the M5 got check engine light and was not getting above 5000 rpm he was not a factor. And he was super nice with the point by.

It was about the end of the 2013 Kumoh Ecsta PS91 but i was able to do consistent 1:41 and toward the end got a 1:40.

Sunday we had few more cars. The front PS91 were pretty much shot so at lunch time I swapped the front left to right. With my new -3.0 camber, NYST eats the front driver inside and eats the outside front passenger.

Temp across the front tires were even. While I understand that it means nothing, still when I was dropping air pressure to run 40 hot, the middle was 20 to 30 degrees less then the shoulders. So now I run 32psi cold all around and call it good. The front passenger gets up to 41.5psi and the front driver get to 39-40psi coming off the track. after 30 minutes it is about 35.5.

I am happy at the moment with the setup.
Traction control off and steering with the throttle works great. I did sensed that the rebound was a bit too quick to come up and I adjusted the front one click. So rebound is now sit on 5 clicks and feels good.

Next, I was curious about the shaft dampening. I am happy on 4, but wanted to explore the shaft setting on 5.

Kind of interesting. The extra click make the road feel smoother. As if the bumps disapear to some degree. At the same time, it also feel as you are more insulated from the road.

The main issue with the "one more click" is that the bumps that are slower and more elongated (think wave like bumps) are more pronounced.

As the car comes down from a rounded up bump, it creates more a pogo stick effect I don't like.

At NYST i have two places, both fast, that this would be a major issue. On the straight at 130mph about mid way, we have a three waves that when I set the car stiffer, it almost launch it on impact. Second is off turn 7, which a similar to LRP, but the other side of the hill is a down hill rather than flat. That returns to earth on the backend must get absorbed.

So perhaps shaft damper goes back to 4.

I have not played with rear at all.

Since the rear $150/tire 2014 Yokos Advan Sport V105 is still in good shape, I am mounting another $126/tire Ecsta on the fronts. This should be good for the June 8th and June 30th track days.

My goal is to push 1:41 / 1:40 times.

Then, mounting the Yoko ADO8Rs and trying to break 1:37.

The settings may not translate well to the ADO8Rs, but I am optimistic.

[rhyary]

Back to 40mph topic
Turn 18 coming on to the straight is important one and my goal is to consistently hit it at 50.

But so far I have been fluctuating at 44-46.
The car can do it for sure. Alas, the driver has an issue.

If I take it on 4th gear and less than 3500 RPM, and just focus on not hitting the brakes too hard, I can do this in the picture (48.7) but I can't accelerate quickly. (first picture)

But If I come on third gear and 5000 rpm I am too apprehensive with the throttle and I brake too much or not accelerating mid corner enough. (second picture)

[kyrix1st]

Too much partial throttle from 0:40 to 1:40. Are your brakes standard?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Too many partial throttle from 0:40 to 1:40. Are your brakes standard?

I don't understand what you mean.
I don't have standard brakes

[kyippee]

I think he's asking if you have the standard/stock brakes that came with the car (even if it's upgraded pads+lines+fluid) or if you have a big brake kit