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12-13-2011, 03:33 PM | #23 |
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12-13-2011, 03:41 PM | #24 | |||||
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I wasn't taking a side on which is right or wrong just citing the attention as evidence of the mod as primarily cosmetic one :P Quote:
I think chosun might have had good intentions and it just got lost for me. As a community member I would certainly *love* to see a detailed introduction/tour/review of a shop, sponsor AND not, this just wasn't it. * = poor form on invoking Godwin's Law. Simply expressing my opinion is certainly not worthy of comparison to nazi's Quote:
Chosun: Nothing personal man, and I hope you take no offense. Just as it's my right to have and state my opinion it's certainly your right to do whatever you want to your car and post whatever you want about it/shops/etc. WWJD: In the same vein, I hope you also take no offense at this . I wish you the best of luck at the hard work of running a business. Perfectly willing/happy to meet up with LateBraking/chosun/wwjd at a local meet and buy y'all a coffee to prove it's no hard feelings. |
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12-13-2011, 03:57 PM | #25 | ||
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I would challenge with the inverse. Isn't it safe to assume that given thousands upon thousands of hours of CAD, CFD and professional level test pilot testing that BMW's decision to *not* put a significant spoiler on any version of the car *except* the ALMS car signifies not an oversight but a reasoned scientific decision? There is no free mod. A wing like that can change vehicle dynamics in a number of expected and unexepcted ways that the car hasn't been tested or set up for and in very many cases can actually hurt performance instead of help. To be clear, I'm not objecting to aero outright in every case for every car. It's that I found it a bit ironic that OP proclaimed his and the shop's aptitude for tracking and proved it with pics of, to me, the least performance/most aesthetic/most outrageous example of aero possible. Quote:
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12-13-2011, 04:04 PM | #27 |
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No offense taken.
My only response Because race car!!!!!!!! Form and function are two different things. I can get pair of jeans for function but will I wear 5 dollar jeans? No. Do you? I'm going to guess no. In that vein. Jeans are normally blue. Are you going to say a guy w black jeans is a poser for jeans? Lol. I'm a designer by trade so It's hard for me not to try to match schemes Anyways I love the wing Love how it performs Love how it looks And it does work 100% or I'd still have my Arkym trunk on Cheers and see everyone at the track! here's a pic of the wing not functioning hahaha Seriously no offense taken. All in fun. Wings aren't for everyone. ESP ones that match roofline |
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12-13-2011, 10:34 PM | #30 |
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Brian, sqweak is quite the pensmith - like you. You finally have a worthy adversary.
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12-14-2011, 11:04 AM | #31 | ||
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the M3 was not made to be a track car (hence the shitty stock brakes) it was made to be a GT car, more-or-less It wasn't a scientific decision to not put better brakes and a wing etc etc..it was a marketing decision BMW is out there to make money, they're a business, simple as that. LOL Quote:
I always get left out :'( *tear*
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12-14-2011, 12:39 PM | #32 | ||
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We can agree to disagree. Quote:
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12-14-2011, 04:39 PM | #33 | |
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I can tell you that in those two cars, the GT3RS had a heck of a lot more downforce... Hence why I feel that a wing does create efficient down force Anyways, I know you never said it was built to be a track car, but we are in a thread talking about a shop that builds sick track cars, some of which have wings. Then we got into talking about the functionality of these wings, where you said they're non-functional spoilers, and we said they're functional etc. Hence why I mentioned that the M3 was not built as a track car, and it was designed more as a Grand Touring car that can go around the track better than a non-M, but it's far from a 'track car," Have you seen any mass produced BMW, heck any mass produced GT car, come with a wing? A wing will create down force, but it's useless on the street and "ugly" to non-enthusiasts (and even to some enthusiasts) I think maybe you missed my original point: My point is.... BMW didn't put a wing on a stock M3 due to marketing and (as you said) design reasons, not because they engineered it to operate similar to how it would if it had a wing. I'm not saying all cars should have wings, or heck even M3s should come stock with wings. I know I wouldn't buy a M3 if it came stock with a wing. I track, and I track pretty often (12+ track days this year and counting), but I wouldn't want a wing on my car. I DD it as a cruiser around PCH, Hollywood, etc I would love to have a wing on a M3 if it was my track car that I didn't DD...
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12-14-2011, 06:13 PM | #34 |
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I'll chime in with some of my experience on aero on street car.
Will putting a wing as big as mine on M3 perform better than stock? I say NO. And it's 100% NO. It will be slower, less turn in response, mid-high speed rear understeering and it will drive ugly. But why I still put it on? I need rear downforce. At Fontana with my stock aero M3, during turn 1 I was doing 120+mph and the car wasn't that stable but I thought it's ok. I drove it whole day until I broke my front under panel. I had no clue why it came off. So I checked out the photos that shoot by track photographer. I saw that my front end was touching the ground at turn 1, and the rear end was sky high like a 4x4. I decided to get a wing after the track day. To complete the wing, u will need a real front lip, a set of good and wide range adjustable coilovers, and also dial everything in with the tires and sizes you are running. Then turn the suspension to the spec where the driver wants to be. It includes camber setting, front and rear ride height, compression and rebound. It sounds very complicated and it sure does. U will also need to change wing angel according to the tracks. Some forum members have asked me if they should get a wing for their M's, I always respond 'hmm, it depends'. To sum it up, I believe my wing works good on tracks and streets too as u can see my pic above. You might wanna bring out your car at the track and experience everything. U can definitely prove me deadly wrong by running a faster laptimes without a big ass wing. Hopefully see you at the track or car meet. |
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12-14-2011, 06:39 PM | #35 | |
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Crazy!
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12-14-2011, 07:27 PM | #36 | |||||
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Otherwise, like I said, would love to meet up with ya guys some time. |
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12-14-2011, 09:42 PM | #37 | |
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It happens as we are only using text; no emotions, tone of voice etc Also, we can't verify what the other is saying/meaning You should come out, a couple of us are going to Big Willow this saturday http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617158 Point is... The best reason to have a wing is to put McDonalds on it
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12-15-2011, 08:16 PM | #39 |
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Non-functional spoiler on a M3... Hmmm... Yea it's non-functional!!! Considering this stock AMG nearly matches the lap time of that so-called M3 track car with that wanabe spoiler. Just kidding xchosun1x.
See you guys at the track this weekend. By the way... Got the car tuned by OE Tuning. See attached |
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12-15-2011, 08:19 PM | #40 |
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sick gains....
oe to the rescue! btw...BIGjohnny..i hope u have no more "excuses" of your car having bad tires, bad brakes, bad driver =o lols jk back at ya |
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12-15-2011, 08:24 PM | #41 | |
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No Ultimate Driver then Ultimate Driving Machine FAILS (With the exception of Ricky) |
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12-15-2011, 08:24 PM | #42 |
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Hmmmm, those curves look so... parallel. Woops, better not start another.. :X
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12-16-2011, 11:23 AM | #44 |
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you have more torque than us
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