R&T's take on the new GT3

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by W///

Freaken hilarious

[Aventador97]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Good grief. I love manuals and will always have at least one, but I can't say it makes me a better driver. I have driven PDK/F1/DSG cars on the track and it sure does give you more bandwidth to deal with the racing line, tire slip and other cars. If I wanted a GT3 for track use, I'd be ecstatic about this change, but since I'd rather use it as a glorified grocery getter, it does make me a little sad that there's no available manual, even if a Carrera S with PDK might dust me at traffic lights.

I still think it makes you a better driver. That being said, perhaps saying it makes you a more involved driver is a better way of putting it. I'm a huge fan of Lamborghini and I agree with you completely, if I was buying a car for the track I would want a Superleggera (with its single clutch paddle shifter), however if it came to street driving I would buy a rear-wheel drive stick shift Balboni.

[swanson]

I too believe it makes you a better driver. You're senses are hightened while driving manual because you're doing more then one thing at a time. You are more aware of your surroundings and are concentrating more. In an automatic, you are easily distracted. You can fall asleep behind the wheel from boredom.

[KingOfJericho]

I fell asleep on the highway driving my Lotus Exige. $25k in damage. It can happen in any car. When I was in Italy last year I rented a manual Fiat Punto. I had to scream along with the music to keep awake on the long boring Autostrade. Transmission means nothing when you're not changing gears on a long highway run.

[Year's_End]

I don't know what's wrong with these posters claiming that driving a manually equipped car makes you a better driver relative to operating a paddle-shifted one. If you're controlling your gears, the one added element is operating the clutch which really isn't a big deal. It might make hairy corners and heavy downshifting while heel-and-toeing a more complicated task, but it's not like you're driving mindlessly if that foot isn't being worked. Porsche realizes this; some of these diehard manual fanboys don't.

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I fell asleep on the highway driving my Lotus Exige. $25k in damage. It can happen in any car. When I was in Italy last year I rented a manual Fiat Punto. I had to scream along with the music to keep awake on the long boring Autostrade. Transmission means nothing when you're not changing gears on a long highway run.

Exactly.

[swanson]

But how many actually shift every gear, every time while driving their DCT? 99.9% put it in auto.

[See5]

In no way would I say driving manual makes you a better driver.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by swanson

But how many actually shift every gear, every time while driving their DCT? 99.9% put it in auto.

That would be the driver's fault/choosing. With most modern automated transmissions on performance cars, I'd say I get the equivalent amount of fun out of ripping through manual mode and pulling off multiple thottle-blipped downshifts and pushing the car that much harder.

Then again, I'm probably in the minority. If an automated gearbox has a manumatic feature, that's all I'm using 99% of the time.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Awesome, but...

"The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better."

Which has to be one of the most BS statements ever, BMW built manual F10 M5's how many have they sold compared to autos, ditto the Ferrari California, I think I read so far only 19 manuals have been sold, I also read that less than 200 CTS-V manuals have been built. It appears that what Americans think they want and what they actually buy a two different things.

Which also fits nicely into a stat that less than 25% of Americans can drive a manual. Neither of the two Americans in my office can drive a manual, both are men and in their 30's.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

That would be the driver's fault/choosing. With most modern automated transmissions on performance cars, I'd say I get the equivalent amount of fun out of ripping through manual mode and pulling off multiple thottle-blipped downshifts and pushing the car that much harder.

Then again, I'm probably in the minority. If an automated gearbox has a manumatic feature, that's all I'm using 99% of the time.

You are certainly in the minority. We have a tiptronic FX35 and it's been in manual mode twice in 5 years.

Let me ask you this: What if you were told that the paddles were going away because the car now shifts faster and smarter than you can in the manual mode? How would you feel about that?

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

Which has to be one of the most BS statements ever, BMW built manual F10 M5's how many have they sold compared to autos, ditto the Ferrari California, I think I read so far only 19 manuals have been sold, I also read that less than 200 CTS-V manuals have been built. It appears that what Americans think they want and what they actually buy a two different things.

Which also fits nicely into a stat that less than 25% of Americans can drive a manual. Neither of the two Americans in my office can drive a manual, both are men and in their 30's.

I agree with your sentiment. I find that I am in the overwhelming minority of Americans who can drive a manual. Not amongst enthusiasts, but overall. The funny part is that my parents, both in their 60s, both drive manuals and refuse to drive anything else.

I remember a stat from many years ago comparing the Americans to Europeans where they used the Vette and the 911 saying that the % of Vettes in manual was so much lower than that of Porsche, showing how much more of a drivers car they are. Guess we can throw that out the window now. My real question is why Audi has nixxed the manual S4 in Europe but not in the US. This whole thing defies logic...

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by swanson

But how many actually shift every gear, every time while driving their DCT? 99.9% put it in auto.

My M3 DCT is the first non 6MT car Ive had in many years (all previous cars were BMWs (mostly Ms) and Porsches). I always drive in manual mode and find it to be nearly as engaging as the 6MT. It will never be AS engaging, but it has been very fun so far.
I told myself I was going to try PDK/DCT depending on whether I got another P car or M and have been very satisfied especially given Ive now seen both sides of the coin with the M3.
Im a huge Porsche fan as you probably know. I think they make the best cars in the world that have stood the test of time and are overengineered and tested to degrees no one else does. PDK in general is great, but Im excited to see what these new developements to the GT3s PDK brings.

[W///]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I agree with your sentiment. I find that I am in the overwhelming minority of Americans who can drive a manual. Not amongst enthusiasts, but overall. The funny part is that my parents, both in their 60s, both drive manuals and refuse to drive anything else.

I remember a stat from many years ago comparing the Americans to Europeans where they used the Vette and the 911 saying that the % of Vettes in manual was so much lower than that of Porsche, showing how much more of a drivers car they are. Guess we can throw that out the window now. My real question is why Audi has nixxed the manual S4 in Europe but not in the US. This whole thing defies logic...

Well same story with the M5/M6 really. Only available with MT in the US, but nowhere else.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

My M3 DCT is the first not 6MT car Ive had in many years (all previous cars he BMWs (mostly Ms) and Porsches). I always drive in manual mode and find it to be nearly as engaging as the 6MT. It will never be AS engaging, but it has been very fun so far.
I told myself I was going to try PDK/DCT depending on whether I got another P car or M and have been very satisfied especially given Ive now seen both sides of the coin with the M3.
Im a huge Porsche fan as you probably know. I think they make the best cars in the world that have stood the test of time and are overengineered and tested to degrees no one else does. PDK in general is great, but Im excited to see what these new developements to the GT3s PDK brings.

I always drive in manual mode as well. I think my car has been in auto mode less than 5min its entire life. I would guess GT3 buyers would be the type to drive mostly in manual mode as well.

[F1Venom]

I know a guy with an LP560-4 and he only drives it with the paddle shifters. He's got an SMG E46 M3 that he DD's and he mostly drives that in manual as well. The reason he went with SMG is that sometimes he gets stuck in long traffic and hates operating a clutch during those times.
He drives his Lambo in manual mode only because the single clutch transmission is pretty jerky in auto and he loves to shift whenever he likes. So paddle shifted cars are chosen by people who love the control of having the power to shift whenever they'd like, but sometimes they like to set it in auto and just relax.

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

sometimes he gets stuck in long traffic and hates operating a clutch during those times.

Perfectly reasonable.

I've got no ill regard toward anyone who chooses a DCT (or SMG) for this reason or any other, frankly.

My issue is that the choice, for those of us who prefer to drive a traditional manual, is slowly going away. That's what's frustrating.

The only way that they'll persist is demand, so any enthusiasts who enjoy driving a manual, want to have the option on new cars in the future, and have the means, really need to consider voting with their pocketbook.

The DCTs, DSGs & PDKs will always be an option, and will only get better with time. That's not necessarily the case with traditional manuals.

And to answer anyone who says that it's an archaic technology that just needs to fade away: people still ride horses, don't they?

[williakz]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

...people still ride horses, don't they?

Haven't seen any lately. You?

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by williakz

Haven't seen any lately. You?

Actually...

Almost hit one - being ridden ON THE HIGHWAY - in rural Arkansas this past weekend. Came over a crest on a blind curve to be greeted with a horse's ass (and his horse) - thankfully there were no cars oncoming and I was able to swerve around.

Tons of people in Oklahoma own and ride horses for pleasure. My brother and his family have several on their little ranch in California - plan to do some riding with them in Colorado this summer.

[WreckerX5d]

The only time I enjoy driving a manual is starting off from a stop and until 3/4th gear. Other than that, they are pretty boring and tiresome to me.

If I was to get a pure sports car as a weekend driver, it would have to be in manual though. As a daily driver, I could careless if it was manual or automatic (If the auto was good)

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by MonkUSMC

The only time I enjoy driving a manual is starting off from a stop and until 3/4th gear. Other than that, they are pretty boring and tiresome to me.

Just to be clear, you find the manual to be boring when you're not shifting?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Just to be clear, you find the manual to be boring when you're not shifting?

In this line, the F30 has great steering straight ahead!

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You are certainly in the minority. We have a tiptronic FX35 and it's been in manual mode twice in 5 years.

Let me ask you this: What if you were told that the paddles were going away because the car now shifts faster and smarter than you can in the manual mode? How would you feel about that?

Then I wouldn't even consider its existence. I rarely leave my car in its automated mode. Most automatic transmissions wouldn't be able to shift the way I like anyway; they base their shift patters on throttle positioning and whole host of other variables. In my car, with its low and fat torque curve, I like to give it heavy throttle and shift at low to medium revs in lots of situations. No transmission programming would know how to simulate that.

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

My M3 DCT is the first non 6MT car Ive had in many years (all previous cars were BMWs (mostly Ms) and Porsches). I always drive in manual mode and find it to be nearly as engaging as the 6MT. It will never be AS engaging, but it has been very fun so far.
I told myself I was going to try PDK/DCT depending on whether I got another P car or M and have been very satisfied especially given Ive now seen both sides of the coin with the M3.
Im a huge Porsche fan as you probably know. I think they make the best cars in the world that have stood the test of time and are overengineered and tested to degrees no one else does. PDK in general is great, but Im excited to see what these new developements to the GT3s PDK brings.

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I always drive in manual mode as well. I think my car has been in auto mode less than 5min its entire life. I would guess GT3 buyers would be the type to drive mostly in manual mode as well.

Originally Posted by F1Venom

I know a guy with an LP560-4 and he only drives it with the paddle shifters. He's got an SMG E46 M3 that he DD's and he mostly drives that in manual as well. The reason he went with SMG is that sometimes he gets stuck in long traffic and hates operating a clutch during those times.
He drives his Lambo in manual mode only because the single clutch transmission is pretty jerky in auto and he loves to shift whenever he likes. So paddle shifted cars are chosen by people who love the control of having the power to shift whenever they'd like, but sometimes they like to set it in auto and just relax.

This is exactly how I am. In the 5+ years I've owned my car, I can safely bet that less than 10% of its use has been in D/DS.

I personally think DS and "sporty" fully-automated modes are pointless. Leave your car in auto when you need a break and take the reigns when you're in the mood to push it. I also wouldn't trust an automated mode when I want some controled oversteer, which is often for me.