If Rod Bearings fail: How much is a replacement engine?

[GT3fan]

Reading about these recent engine failures is really depressing. I especially feel sorry for the new owners that experience this shortly after purchase.

I'm just curious, what is the typical replacement scenario and cost assuming no warranty? Is it more economical to rebuild the failed engine or purchase a used engine? How plentiful are used motors?

I have been stubborn replacing my rod bearings and want to know the worst case scenario if you are one of the unfortunate few.

[jiggz]

$10K-$30K.

$10K if you luck out and find a used motor and can install yourself with zero labor cost.

Can reach $25K-$30K if you go through BMW, re-manufactured motor with dealer install.

Most are somewhere in-between those #'s. If you're worried and planning to keep the car for the long haul, stop procrastinating and just have the RB's replaced.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by jiggz

$10K-$30K.

$10K if you luck out and find a used motor and can install yourself with zero labor cost.

Can reach $25K-$30K if you go through BMW, re-manufactured motor with dealer install.

Most are somewhere in-between those #'s. If you're worried and planning to keep the car for the long haul, stop procrastinating and just have the RB's replaced.

+1

I sell my refurbed S65's for $10-11k. Then you have to pay labor for the replacement process ($2-4k). Plus you may take a hit on the car's resale value because of the engine replacement.

Don't gamble, replace your rod bearings.

[GT3fan]

Thanks guys! I need to stop procrastinating and get them done.

I know there are no guarantees in life, but if you replace with BE Bearings are you essentially assured of trouble free high rpm motoring for at least 50k as far as the bearings go?

[deansbimmer]

There are no guarantees with these motors (especially with main bearing failures on the rise). It's the price we pay to enjoy their unique character. I'll gamble against main bearing failure but not RB failure.

But yes, In my professional opinion BE's are about as close to a guarantee as you can get.

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

There are no guarantees with these motors (especially with main bearing failures on the rise). It's the price we pay to enjoy their unique character. I'll gamble against main bearing failure but not RB failure.

But yes, In my professional opinion BE's are about as close to a guarantee as you can get.

Thanks again!

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

+1

I sell my refurbed S65's for $10-11k. Then you have to pay labor for the replacement process ($2-4k). Plus you may take a hit on the car's resale value because of the engine replacement.

Don't gamble, replace your rod bearings.

What are the details regarding your engines Dean? Do you need a core? What's included? 10 to 11 sounds like a good deal.

[LVI]

deansbimmer, what do you charge to do main and rod bearings? i'm just curious what the cost difference is with the engine in the car as opposed to someone bringing their engine to you and asking you to do both the rod and main bearings.

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by lawrence1

deansbimmer, what do you charge to do main and rod bearings? i'm just curious what the cost difference is with the engine in the car as opposed to someone bringing their engine to you and asking you to do both the rod and main bearings.

The only way it makes economic sense to do the mains is if the engine is out already. And even then, you’ve got to do not insignificant disassembly and break timing. Rod bearings are a largely in and out job.

[deansbimmer]

nrubenstein is right. It's an engine out job. Either you have to pull the motor or I do. 4 hours for me to pull the motor.

As mentioned, RB's are an in and out in-car job at $2200 including BE parts and an oil change. Adding mains into the mix adds another $3500-4000. Unfortunately, you can't assess the mains either while doing the rods. You have to split the block. The caveat for the main bearing job is that the OCD minded can easily add another $1000+ in "while you're in there" parts and labor to refresh other components.

My engines start as good running cores. I put it on an engine stand run some tests and go through it with new external gaskets, plugs, BE bearings/bolts, and assembly documentation.

[LVI]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

nrubenstein is right. It's an engine out job. Either you have to pull the motor or I do. 4 hours for me to pull the motor.

As mentioned, RB's are an in and out in-car job at $2200 including BE parts and an oil change. Adding mains into the mix adds another $3500-4000. Unfortunately, you can't assess the mains either while doing the rods. You have to split the block. The caveat for the main bearing job is that the OCD minded can easily add another $1000+ in "while you're in there" parts and labor to refresh other components.

My engines start as good running cores. I put it on an engine stand run some tests and go through it with new external gaskets, plugs, BE bearings/bolts, and assembly documentation.

I figured it would be an engine out job but i thought i saw a post by you somewhere where you had done one in car. That surprised me so i figured i'd ask what the cost would be for something like that, if it was indeed doable. Thanks for the info.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by lawrence1

I figured it would be an engine out job but i thought i saw a post by you somewhere where you had done one in car. That surprised me so i figured i'd ask what the cost would be for something like that, if it was indeed doable. Thanks for the info.

I saw that poster saying he did mains while in the car, I can't comprehend how. The engine mounts go between the bed plate and block, the headers are in the way, how do you seal the bedplate? Plus never mind trying to do that precision work balancing the mass of the crank and bedplate overhead....forget it.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

nrubenstein is right. It's an engine out job. Either you have to pull the motor or I do. 4 hours for me to pull the motor.

As mentioned, RB's are an in and out in-car job at $2200 including BE parts and an oil change. Adding mains into the mix adds another $3500-4000. Unfortunately, you can't assess the mains either while doing the rods. You have to split the block. The caveat for the main bearing job is that the OCD minded can easily add another $1000+ in "while you're in there" parts and labor to refresh other components.

My engines start as good running cores. I put it on an engine stand run some tests and go through it with new external gaskets, plugs, BE bearings/bolts, and assembly documentation.

This is reassuring. I can afford (not that I want to but...) $11K if my engine blows up. And serious good work on pulling the lump in 4 hours!!!

Cheers,

[nrubenstein]

The one caveat is that there are probably a couple K in ancillary parts that you’ll want/need after an engine failure.

[CHE///MIST3]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

The one caveat is that there are probably a couple K in ancillary parts that you’ll want/need after an engine failure.

It's a good opportunity in a bad situation. To build a fresh motor, measured, balanced, and built by hand like they should have been!

GM

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by CHE///MIST3

It's a good opportunity in a bad situation. To build a fresh motor, measured, balanced, and built by hand like they should have been!

GM

That’s a lot more than a couple K. And you have to trust the builder to not screw it up.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by lawrence1

I figured it would be an engine out job but i thought i saw a post by you somewhere where you had done one in car. That surprised me so i figured i'd ask what the cost would be for something like that, if it was indeed doable. Thanks for the info.

Yeah I did, but never again..... I was already in there doing RB's and the guy decided he wanted mains too. I made the mistake of just carrying on from there since everything was already apart but it was not something I'm going to do again. Engine comes out.

[Duk996]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Yeah I did, but never again..... I was already in there doing RB's and the guy decided he wanted mains too. I made the mistake of just carrying on from there since everything was already apart but it was not something I'm going to do again. Engine comes out.

God bless you, I thought of doing mains while under there and quickly realized it wasn't going to happen. You need to know a lot about how the engine is put together before trying; I wasn't familiar with all the timing chain parts and wasn't about to learn as I go trying to do it in the car. Even knowing it's gotta be a bear.

[Dr. Dre]

If you're down in Socal you have MRF Engineering replace the bearings. He's done a ton of them and is a great guy.

I've been saying all along why would people wait to do the bearings. I did mine 2 days after buying my car. If mine failed I would basically have a 3500 pound paperweight.

You can spend $2200 or $10k-$25k.

[jonshmoe]

Definitely do the upgrade -- I have not heard of a failed s65 with upgraded bearings, plus it is costly and time consuming to repair a failed engine.

Last Friday I picked up my car after having the engine completely rebuilt due to bearings related engine failure. I paid $7,000 which is fairly cheap for the work done. Local shops were quoting $15,000 - $20,000.

I sourced a used crank and rods from a totaled 2011 M3 with 15k miles and the seller threw in the flywheel as well ($1600). I purchased a new clutch kit from ECS tuning($400). My master tech was able to use his discount to get the seals, gaskets, bearings, and all the necessary parts to rebuild the engine ($2500). My tech charges $60/hour and based on the dealership, replacing the crank was a 38 hour job. He cut me a break and charged $2,000. There was an additional $500 spent at the machine shop to measure and refurbish the crank, which was already in great condition.

Lost story short - $2,500 is preventative maintenance is much cheaper than a $7,000+ rebuild.

[pbonsalb]

And you got a great deal that would not be available to most.

[anerbe]

and you have to trust at the end of all the build process that:

1. the assembly all went great and
2. the failure did not cause any unrepairable damage

you are putting great trust with a lot of money in a rebuild. however, it's also at time a lottery of a replacement engine.