Test drove a 2012 Porsche 911S over the weekend, surprised the M3 held up

[Cars are the new horse]

Test drove a 2012 Porsche 911S over the weekend, surprised the M3 held up

[Totti]

In all honesty though, good comparo and glad you preferred the M3 in the end.

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

The 911 makes the M3 cry like a baby....

[piloto]

Huh, I have a 6MT, but what I LOVE about the DCT is that it's just like a manual when in "manual" mode. Leave it in 5th and floor it, it'll stay in 5th. Hit the rev limited in 5th, it'll keep bouncing off of it. Just like in a regular 3-pedal manual. I had a GTI with DSG and absolutely hated that it would upshift and downshift for you when in manual mode. This was problematic especially on the track. In my mind, BMW's DCT is doing it 100% right.

[M3Bahn]

They are totally different cars, good job comparing apples vs oranges.

[kitw]

geez, normally I try to be nice, but you just fail at 911s. Glad you didn't get one, because clearly you would have been miserable in it, given that you couldn't recognize any of the good qualities! and, you picked the WORST of the qualities to like... PDK is a mess. It is designed to perform like an automatic transmission. The shift directions are wrong, on the console.

Ok, I'll stop. Glad you enjoy the M3!

[Seattle S65B40]

Originally Posted by piloto

Huh, I have a 6MT, but what I LOVE about the DCT is that it's just like a manual when in "manual" mode. Leave it in 5th and floor it, it'll stay in 5th. Hit the rev limited in 5th, it'll keep bouncing off of it. Just like in a regular 3-pedal manual. I had a GTI with DSG and absolutely hated that it would upshift and downshift for you when in manual mode. This was problematic especially on the track. In my mind, BMW's DCT is doing it 100% right.

Agreed. The OP's description of PDK sound more like things I would be complaining about...

[crackberry]

WTF?! Why is everyone ripping on the op. relax guys and cut him some slack. It was the first time he sat in a p car and it didn't wow him. It is all good. W/e

I personally love PDK. It shifts so much more smoothly than dct or smg. PDK shifts very smoothly. the software always finds the perfect gear for you. If you do buy a turbo, be prepared to take a huge hit in depreciation. My dad paid so much and now it is barely worth 100k.

To me, I like the lighter feel of the c2s and it handles better than the m3. It just requires a lot of skill to handle the rear engine platform, which is something that many people never fully develop.

I would just wait for the 991. bump in hp and less weight. only thing that worries me is the electronic steering...

[stuka]

If I had to choose a wet sumper 911 vs the M3, I will take the M3 every time.

The OP test drove the wrong Porsche.

Go drive a proper 911 with proper 911 dry sump engine, the GT2 or the GT3. Your eyes will open and the clouds will part, and you will forget about the M3.

Regular 911's with that cheap bored out Coxster POS wet sumper engine is the biggest ripoff that offers mediocre driving experience.

Oh, you couldn't get PDK in real 911's because real 911's use the racing GT1 block that is not Direct Injection (the basic dry sump block design is decades old), and is incompatible with the required PDK DME interface. That is why they put a cheap POS engine in 997.2 Turbo, so they can put PDK in it.

Bottom line, non GT 911's vs M3, M3 wins.

[brava09]

M3 > C2S in my book.

Different story for Turbo version though.

[SenorFunkyPants]

I had a C2S gen2 for a day and drove it back to back against my M3 and I sort of agree with the OP except:
Handling, on smooth roads the 911 wins but on uneven roads the M3 wins.
Power/acceleration, the 911 has the edge but nothing you are going to lose sleep lusting after.
Transmission, the DCT is the better transmission IMO in all areas.
In all the 911 is a great car and if they were similarly priced it would be a no brainer but at the price premium the Porsche sells for?
It makes the M3 look like a proper bargain.

[RayC]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

Transmission: The PDK is much better than the DCT in my mind. The thing about PDK that immediately struck me was that although it would hold a gear until you shift it yourself, whenever you floor it, it automatically downshifts for you. The DCT does not automatically downshift for you, and coming from an automatic, I find myself sometimes in situations where I mean to accelerate quickly, but I forget to downshift and I end up going very slow in 6th gear or something. Perhaps more time in the M3 will cure this, but I loved that aspect about the PDK I much preferred the PDK. 911s win.

What the?!?! Are you serious?

If you keep forgetting what gear you're in, you either need to practice more or just leave it in D mode. Also, if you hold down the downshift and floor the pedal (make sure to feel the "click") it'll immediately drop to the optimum gear to accelerate. Finally, DCT does downshift for you...that is it'll downshift for you to avoid stalling the car.

I guess this is one of the moments where it comes in handy to know how to drive a manual before jumping over to DCT.

[FVM3]

M3 all day long. Not a big fan of P car, especially the look of it

[paradocs98]

Originally Posted by piloto

Huh, I have a 6MT, but what I LOVE about the DCT is that it's just like a manual when in "manual" mode. Leave it in 5th and floor it, it'll stay in 5th. Hit the rev limited in 5th, it'll keep bouncing off of it. Just like in a regular 3-pedal manual. I had a GTI with DSG and absolutely hated that it would upshift and downshift for you when in manual mode. This was problematic especially on the track. In my mind, BMW's DCT is doing it 100% right.

I agree. I haven't driven the PDK transmission, but based on the description, it would drive me nuts. I got the DCT for my M3 specifically for track days. If I wanted my M3 to just be a sporty car for tooling around town, I would have gotten the manual transmission. But for the track I want the best of both worlds--true control over the transmission like a regular manual, but DCT-specific lightning-quick shifting with no need to worry about proper execution of heel-and-toeing. (Not looking to start yet another 6MT vs DCT thread.) Since I'm still a novice at the track, I want to really focus on smoothness of throttle and braking, learning the proper line, learning proper "vision," learning trail-braking, etc. After I feel really comfortable with that, I might move to a manual and work on heel-toe. The point, though, is that on a track I would find it very disruptive to have the car shifting up and down for me when I don't want it to.

Thanks for taking the time to put in a well-written review. While some responders seem grumpy, I for one appreciate what you wrote. I have only driven a non-S 997 manual at a Skip Barber school, but I've been curious how different the Carrera S feels. Interestingly, most of the instructors (many former pro racers) at Skip Barber preferred the DCT M3 to the manual 911 when I was there. I'm sure the GT3 would have been a different story, though...

Finally, why are we so often in attack mode on the forum? That's the beauty of a message board--things are indexed and arranged so you can easily scroll through all the threads without needing to read all of them. So if you're a board veteran and have seen a similar thread before, don't waste your time reading the new one. There are many different discussions going on at once. Pick the ones you have interest in and move on instead of attacking others. Okay, maybe we should ban the "Which color should I get?"posts...

[SPQR M3]

6MT P car > M3 DCT > PDK P car

[PKL]

I have never driven a 911 and I enjoyed your comparo, thanks

[SUB-ZERO]

I'll take an M3 over a Carrera or Carrera S any day.

Having said that:

GT3>M3>Carrera

If you are going to upgrade to a Porsche and get rid of the M3, might as well go for a Gt3. However, if you have a GT3, you will probably need another car. So the best car combo IMO, is a GT3 and an M3.

Personally, as soon as I pay off my M3, I am keeping it and getting a GT3. To me going from an m3 to a Carrera or Carrera S doesn't make much sense and is mostly a product of "Grass is Greener" syndrome for many.

Honestly, I like the Coxster Spyder and Cayman S a little more than a regular Carrera. Although I haven't test driven a Cayman R, I can say that the Coxster Spyder is probably more hardcore and purer in terms of a sports car than the regular Carrera is; The Cayman R probably is too.

-SZ

[AngelinIsRich08]

For another $15k I'd go for an '06 F430.

[ssabripo]

everyone here ripping on the Thread Starter, as if all of you are experts, LOL


It was HIS EXPERIENCE, his opinion, and his likes/dislikes on both cars....much like he seems to love his 335 Dinan stg3 more than his current M3.

that's all that matters!


having said that, I do agree that the TS does not have a good grasp on Porsches yet, because they are phenomenal cars inside out. A "POS dry hump" 997.2 Carrera S I raced on the track raped any time (and fun factor) I've ever made on the M3.... P cars were made to be driven at the track....hard!

[Mr.MichaelM3]

Weird. My mom has the panamera 4s with PDK. That tranny is garbage compared to my DCT. Also if your in automatic mode in DCT it downshifts for you when you hit the brake.

[Richbot]

Agreed with the OP, I drove a C2S recently and came away more impressed with the M3 than ever. I would love to own a 911 as a 2nd or 3rd car but if I have to pick one or the other, it's the M3 every time.

[Nelrock]

Originally Posted by nirvanayoda

The DCT does not automatically downshift for you, and coming from an automatic, I find myself sometimes in situations where I mean to accelerate quickly, but I forget to downshift and I end up going very slow in 6th gear or something. Perhaps more time in the M3 will cure this, but I loved that aspect about the PDK

You may need a software update...mine downshifts in relation to how hard i hit the accelerator. If you floor it, it'll jump the lowest gear that won't over rev. I was in 7th the other day and floored it (round 60mph)...and the car immediately dropped to 2nd.