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03-31-2011, 08:30 PM | #2 |
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Same car. All the 997S .1 will beat the E92 M3. Therefore the .2 will too. PDK for the .2 increases the margin. As for terminal speed, I'd rather be in the Porsche for balance and stability. I believe the M3 is geared to go faster.
One thing about the 997S, it can be improved at relatively low cost via genuine Porsche parts. Headers (X51) are less than a $1000, and you can fit the massive 6-pot GT3 front brakes for well under $3000. You can also directly fit the GT3 aero kit including rear wing and many other things (i.e., large GT3 brake ducts to replace the smaller OEM ones) to make the car perform even better. It's simply a better platform to begin with. On the aftermarket side, cold air intakes and Y plenums make big hp differences too, as do high-flo exhaust systems.
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03-31-2011, 08:56 PM | #3 |
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Doesn't the 06/07 Carrera S have 355hp and the 08 have around 380hp. is the 355hp Carrera S faster than a 414hp m3 at top speed? I'm not looking at 0-60 or quarter mile times only top end around 60-155mph.
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03-31-2011, 10:25 PM | #4 | |
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Porsche doesn't limit the top speed, but the gearing runs out in the upper 180s on the 997S.
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03-31-2011, 11:46 PM | #5 | |
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The Porsche definitely has the advantage in gearbox (6MT vs. 6MT). No grinds at any rpm shift and smooth as hell. Night and day difference.
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04-01-2011, 12:25 AM | #6 |
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I never understood why people would want to switch out the shifter in a 997 for a SSK, I thought mine was like a rifle bolt. So precise and smooth, especially after an E46 M3. I was disappointed that the 6MT shifter in the E9x wasn't that much better than the E46 M3.
My 997S had X51 headers, AWE 200cpi cats and an IPD plenum with a set of Borla cans...my M3 feels faster. If the 997.1S is quicker its only because of the traction advantage off the line. From a roll my E92 M3 feels like it would destroy my 997S. Dave
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04-01-2011, 07:57 AM | #7 |
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Who said anything about a 996? Ultimately if there weren't so many people on this forum saying such retarded things, people like me would stay away. You guys do a terrible job policing your own. There's much harmony on the Porsche forums (where I spend more time). Amazing amount of hate on this forum (mainly between E92 M3 owners). It's shameful.
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04-01-2011, 09:19 AM | #8 |
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OP, you're confusing the model years of the 997.1 and 997.2.
997.1: 2005 - 2008 997.2: 2009 - 2011 the 997.1 is a great match for the M3 in all performance categories, whereas the 997.2 beats it everywhere. with respect to top-end speed, if you take the limiter off the M3, it will be very close. both cars will exceed a true 180+ mph. I will say though, that the M3 feels much more stable at high speeds than the 997. the twitchiness of the 997 due to its light steering feel, light front end and short wheelbase don't inspire the confidence that the M3 does at high speeds. for the record, I've owned both. a 2008 997 (6MT) and now a DCT M3. |
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04-01-2011, 12:47 PM | #9 | |
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I love my E92 M3, more than I liked my 997S. However, the reasons for this have nothing to do with the performance of the 997S. It was more of a life style issue and the fact I couldn't afford to have a DD and a weekend driver. I cringed everytime I had to park my 997S in a jacked up neighborhood to do a walk through (I do real estate) or the times I had to rent a car to pick up clients to show property. That got old quickly... Dave
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04-01-2011, 01:11 PM | #10 |
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Dave, he was saying those two guys won't admit that an e92 M3 is faster than any Porsche. Not that the M3 IS faster than any Porsche made/all Porsches. Hard to read through text I suppose.
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04-01-2011, 02:01 PM | #11 | |
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Oh, my bad..reading comprehension is a tad off today.. Dave
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04-01-2011, 05:28 PM | #12 | |
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Second, the next gen 911 is reported to be the 991 not a 998. |
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04-01-2011, 06:03 PM | #13 |
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I'm a huge fan of 911's and Porsche in general. never understood why they were so highly respected until the first time I rode in one, and I've been in love with them ever since. they can be used and abused day in and day out and will still last 200k+ miles easily. they're also great in the winter with the rear engine rear drive layout. however, I can't get past the fact that the M3 is nipping at the heels of the 911 in performance. not so much because the M3 costs a lot less, but because the M3 has a much more spacious interior and trunk.
no question about it, the M3 is a FAR better value. but that's not to say there's no reason for anyone to get a 911 - in fact, I'd say quite the opposite. the 911 has far more curb appeal due to its long, rich history and racing pedigree and the driving experience in a 911 is irreplaceable. you have to respect the stubborn Porsche engineers for spending 40+ years refining the 911. whereas most cars have a revolution with each subsequent model (i.e. look at the M3 - went from an I4 to an I6 to a bigger I6 to a V8), the 911 has had a continous evolution and just keeps getting better. |
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04-01-2011, 09:04 PM | #14 | |
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Why is this always the talking point when moving up-market, but get's derided when discussing cars that might be considered down-market? |
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04-02-2011, 12:54 AM | #15 | |
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What does "power into the motor" have to do with anything? Bottom line it is as fast (Boss 302) or faster (Boss 302 Laguna Seca) than any of the luxury super sedans and only costs a fraction of the others. The interior of the M3 is nothing to write home about and to call the 302 "cheap" in comparison is laughable. If that's your rational the interior of the M3 is flat out embarassing compared to a 911. I assume by "primitive" you mean faster in every way. You can't have it both ways. The 911 isn't worth the premium over the M3 for it's marginal performance gains, but somehow the M3 is worth the huge premium over the Boss 302 Lagune Seca even though it outperforms it. Completely lame and baseless argument. |
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04-02-2011, 01:45 AM | #16 | |
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Especially if the M3 is equipped w/DKG, 997.1 has no chance. |
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04-02-2011, 01:50 AM | #17 | |
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Been there, done that. |
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04-02-2011, 03:28 AM | #18 | |
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04-02-2011, 03:36 AM | #19 | |
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04-02-2011, 05:14 PM | #20 | |
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second, what you refer to as "compromises" that BMW made in creating the M3 are in fact just the opposite. BMW didn't aim to build a 2-person sports car, so they needed a larger engine to achieve the performance they were looking for. sure, the M3 doesn't get the gas mileage that the C2S does, but it is a far more special engine in my opinion (in terms of throttle response, power delivery, sound, etc.). not to mention, the 50/50 weight distribution makes the M3 a pure joy to drive for drivers of all talents. I owned a 997 and I appreciate the nuances of driving a rear-engine car, but if you ask me, it's not a "plus" for a car to harshly punish driver mistakes the way the 997 does. I find it more impressive that the M3 can be driven to such great limits yet be so forgiving. not saying the M3 is a better car than the 911 Carrera(S); just don't understand why you feel the need to vehemently defend Porsche in this instance since you don't own an e9X M3. |
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04-02-2011, 05:59 PM | #21 |
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I've owned a 997S, Cayman S, and 996 GT3. Porsche makes some great cars, and I enjoyed them all. For 90% of owners, a well set up M3 will be driven faster on most tracks than most 911 platform cars. Once learned, the GT3 is a marvelous car, a ball on track, but very compromised as a DD or frequently driven street car. The 997S is more communicative in braking and suspension than the M3, but not by a large margin. Again, after learning to drive it, the 997S will be a bit faster on most tracks, but also more challenging to drive well, which may be a plus for the enthusiast. Overall, a great sports car and a great sports sedan, but not sure if they should be compared directly. For less money, a well driven ZO6 will embarrass both of them, so there you go. Buy what you enjoy driving.
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04-02-2011, 08:25 PM | #22 | |
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