Proof of OE/Gintani dyno manipulation

[Bluechipper]

Originally Posted by M3_FTW

I have seen plenty plenty dyno graphs as well as had my own cars dynod. You will never ever get a linear gain like the OE/Gintani one is showing. They fucked with the dyno settings. Plain and simple.

From what i have read about OE/Gintani being involved in lawsuits, Jeremy stealing PC files etc. They dont seem like anyone I would like to do business with. ESS/AA FTMFW

Funny you mention stealing files. When ESS was trying to tune PG's stroker, PG mentioned ESS had downloaded Powerchip tune from a customer's car.

[jmflukeiii]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Thanks for the on-topic post ()

Now back to the issue: Are we ever going to see any comprehensive comparative 3rd party data, or is it just going to be 10 more pages of, "You're only out to get me because I'm the best" crap?

Put something together guys.

I think dyno'd results of a product of theirs at an independent dyno would be quite on-topic - that's why he mentioned he's getting an exhaust. Then we could actually look at some facts instead of endless pages of personal jabs at people, like you said.

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

I know this has nothing to do with just a tune but here is a 3rd party dyno on my car @ Autowave.

1st graph is with Eisenmann Race muffler and AFE Air Filter.

2nd sheet is with the Gintani Supercharger @ 5.5psi and Akra Evo Exhaust (100 cell cats) making 512whp.

Then a video of my car dyno'd @ Gintani @ 7psi making 512whp. So you have a 3rd party dyno showing gains, and also shows that it read the same whp at Gintani with more boost, so theirs reads lower, as Autowave uses an 11% correction factor...and my car dyno'd around 465whp at Gintani when I was at 5.5psi.

This doesnt prove anything just sharing some old facts

I think this shows quite a lot.... Gintani's dyno is actually showing a lower number than the other dyno, not exaggerating the HP gain as one would be lead to believe by this thread.

[jmflukeiii]

Originally Posted by Chako

I have read alot in the past few months regarding the E9X M3 tuner 'feud'. It's hard to know who to believe, so I can't really comment on that. I have my own opinions on which company makes the most 'power' and is the 'safest', but it is just my feeling so I don't want to skew the buying public by commenting on the issue.

However, I can present these facts regarding the GINTANI EXHAUST PRODUCTS, coupled with a POWERCHIP CUSTOM TUNE. I believe it is a third-party dyno.



Hope this helps. Thank you Nawaaz for doing this research; if you would like the quote removed let me know.

70 Wheel horsepower from exhaust, pulley, and tune (almost 90hp at crank assuming 20% drivetrain loss)? That makes this seem fishy all over again, that's a lot to claim on this car....

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by jmflukeiii

I think dyno'd results of a product of theirs at an independent dyno would be quite on-topic - that's why he mentioned he's getting an exhaust. Then we could actually look at some facts instead of endless pages of personal jabs at people, like you said.

Do you think dyno results of an exhaust system would really prove anything worth while? (although at this point, it's probably better than nothing). What we need is the OE vs PC dyno shootout, and then compare data

M33 & 1cleanM3....you guys are like the Bloods vs the Crips. Mods are gonna whoop your asses.

[J08M3]

I have no doubts Gintani can make products that produce power. My only question and I believe the topic of this thread, is have they put out a manipulated/fake dyno graph? If so then why? And if they did and got caught then the pieces will fall where they do. If that graph proves to be real/unmanipulated then they will shine. It'll prove they have the best tune.

[tinpot]

Originally Posted by jmflukeiii

70 Wheel horsepower from exhaust, pulley, and tune (almost 90hp at crank assuming 20% drivetrain loss)? That makes this seem fishy all over again, that's a lot to claim on this car....

Nawaaz's results are legit: the dyno’s were completed at an independent shop in Dallas when Jeremy wasn’t present. Nawaaz’s car had the Gintani race catback with catless x-pipe and made 500 hp at the crank – by far the biggest gains from the PC group buy.

This is all irrelevant as the topic of this thread is about the apparent discrepancy of the dyno chart posted by the OP which doesn’t seem to have been answered after 11 pages of posts.

[jmflukeiii]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Do you think dyno results of an exhaust system would really prove anything worth while? (although at this point, it's probably better than nothing). What we need is the OE vs PC dyno shootout, and then compare data

M33 & 1cleanM3....you guys are like the Bloods vs the Crips. Mods are gonna whoop your asses.

True, I was just looking for any sort of results.

Originally Posted by tinpot

Nawaaz's results are legit: the dyno’s were completed at an independent shop in Dallas when Jeremy wasn’t present. Nawaaz’s car had the Gintani race catback with catless x-pipe and made 500 hp at the crank – by far the biggest gains from the PC group buy.

This is all irrelevant as the topic of this thread is about the apparent discrepancy of the dyno chart posted by the OP which doesn’t seem to have been answered after 11 pages of posts.

500hp? That's amazing from those modifications alone, that's in-credible.... Gintani only claims 20-30 hp gain on it.

[J08M3]

wow, if you google Gintani and Sticky video, there's quiet a thread on m3forum that pops up.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by J08M3

wow, if you google Gintani and Sticky video, there's quiet a thread on m3forum that pops up.

The video has been disabled though, right?

[Aries932]

Originally Posted by m33

For the Record you will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever :: phew ::: Deep Breath :: ever ever ever get a straight answer from Gintani and the threads always die out with Gintani Ninja Turtles trying to bail them out

Clearly when people who have gintani products confirm that they actually do make the gains they are claiming and then one actually provides a dyno of them doing just that....that is the "ninja turtles" bailing them out..

Not satisfied customers disagreeing with you.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Raz,

I can understand your frustration. In any professional environment, there will always be times where your intergity, knowledge, and competence will be challenged. The better you are, the more you will be challenged. That's just the nature of business. How those challenges are dealt with is what sets the best apart from the rest. Being the best is never easy because everyone wants to knock you off the top of the hill. If you feel that your product is the best, eventually that fact will come to light provided that the requests of the paying customers and the non-paying viewers are addressed. Unfortunately, the non-paying viewers hold just as much or more influence on your business than the paying customers. That's just how it goes in an internet based business. I hope you and your company can provide whatever it is that will provide your legitimacy and then we can all move on. Until then, this will just turn into the giant snowball that never stops.

+1

[SHADY1]

Originally Posted by tinpot

Nawaaz's results are legit: the dyno’s were completed at an independent shop in Dallas when Jeremy wasn’t present. Nawaaz’s car had the Gintani race catback with catless x-pipe and made 500 hp at the crank – by far the biggest gains from the PC group buy.

This is all irrelevant as the topic of this thread is about the apparent discrepancy of the dyno chart posted by the OP which doesn’t seem to have been answered after 11 pages of posts.

+1 on Autoscope location in Dallas

[11' AW M3]

wow, crazy that there STILL hasn't been a response from Gintani addressing the OP's allegations. Is that an answer in itself?

[Kyoshi71]

Did this thread just die on the vine?

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Did this thread just die on the vine?

I think so. That's not too good for Gintani/OE then, I'm assuming. Let's be optimistic here though. Maybe there working out the details with PC about the challenge .

[J08M3]

I really only hear good things about the OE tunes. If in fact this dyno was manipulated the situation needs to be handled quickly and professionally. The last thing they need is a bad dyno graph ruing the image of what's supposed to be a good product.

[pumper206]

Originally Posted by J08M3

I really only hear good things about the OE tunes. If in fact this dyno was manipulated the situation needs to be handled quickly and professionally. The last thing they need is a bad dyno graph ruing the image of what's supposed to be a good product.

For sure...I was about to pull the trigger on the OE tune, too. That is until THIS thread came about. Now, I'm not so sure...We'll see, I guess.

[powerchip]

If James is up for it we can head to the dyno shop he picked and do the comparison with his current tune vs the tune that was installed in his car previously. We can do a seperate event to see whose dyno tune is better but this would help get something tangible out there and show definitively what's taking place.

If you'd like to schedule something give us a call
949-646-1026

[inandout]

Originally Posted by J08M3

wow, if you google Gintani and Sticky video, there's quiet a thread on m3forum that pops up.

Jesus... i went through 50+ pages of thread about Gintani... holy s#it.

[xchosun1x]

Originally Posted by powerchip

If James is up for it we can head to the dyno shop he picked and do the comparison with his current tune vs the tune that was installed in his car previously. We can do a seperate event to see whose dyno tune is better but this would help get something tangible out there and show definitively what's taking place.

If you'd like to schedule something give us a call
949-646-1026

i am definitely up for it and jeremy has noted that he will participate in the challenge as well.

I am currently awaiting contact from mike to set up a good time frame
and see if that works with the OE/Gintani people

Stay tuned
Thanks

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by pumper206

For sure...I was about to pull the trigger on the OE tune, too. That is until THIS thread came about. Now, I'm not so sure...We'll see, I guess.

To be completely fair, it's not like the OE tune is going to cost you power or even equal the stock tune. It's going to be an improvement over stock regardless, so you really shouldnt let this thread sway you to that degree.

We all know that the standard OE tune for our car is good. What's in question here is the dyno chart, which if manipulated, would point to shady business practice more than anything else. So why would they do it?? Simple; if a customer is on the fence between 2 or 3 different tunes and the dyno shows a (figuratively speaking) 20hp gain @ 3,000, the decision isnt really going to be so difficult and that would drive business.

Quite frankly, if anything ever comes out of this thread, it should be that even with the most common vendors that float around this forum, information provided should be questioned.

In short, whatever is proven by this thread doest help/hurt PC, OE, Gintani or anyone else specifically.....It hurts everyone because trust is gone.

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

In short, whatever is proven by this thread doest help/hurt PC, OE, Gintani or anyone else specifically.....It hurts everyone because trust is gone.

This, and way too much drama. As a result, 3 vendors I would not do business with.