uh oh, engine died?

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Indeed , I saw that as well but in personal Emails they do , because last year I was interested to buy and to visit them in Germany because I live in Belgium .
So I posted some links for them from on here with pics from the whole bearing shit and blown S65s and of course they know the problem as well and then finally fell the word 10K km !
If they would put it on their site...Would you still buy their SC ?

Are we talking about the main bearings or rod bearings? I was under the assumption that you were talking about the mains when you made mention of them recommending the change every 10k.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Is the bottom section of the block sort of like a girdle?

I haven't torn an S65 apart, so I don't feel I have enough knowledge about the engine to make an educated comment about that.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Is the bottom section of the block sort of like a girdle?

Yeah the bedplate is kind of a girdle in itself with the caps built into it. Typically girdles go over the main caps tying them all together (on a lot of engines the main caps are individual pieces like rod caps) so to speak but with the design of our bedplate I'm not sure a half inch girdle over the top would do a lot. Sure couldn't hurt though. Another thing people aren't considering is the thrust bearing. The extra tension from the S/C could be putting enough pressure on the crank to wear the thrust bearing down, allowing crank walk and subsequent main bearing failure.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Are we talking about the main bearings or rod bearings? I was under the assumption that you were talking about the mains when you made mention of them recommending the change every 10k.

Rod bearings .

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Is the bottom section of the block sort of like a girdle?

No, it's not- It is a great design that could be construed as a girdle between the first and last mains, but the crank snout extends a good ways past the front main where the accessory pulley rides, leaving the snout unsupported in front of the first main. This basically bends the crank and places additional load on the front main. There needs to be support closer to the accessory load- especially when supercharged. The only aftermarket solution I can think of would be some type of ball bearing crank pulley mechanism that bolts to the engine block as a support girdle. I wouldn't think it would be easy to design.

Nobody bothers to split the block and inspect or replace the mains when they do rod bearings. For all they know- their mains could be as roasted as the rod bearings they swapped out and it would be no wonder if the mains failed later on... For that matter, fresh mains could eliminate the failures too... I can count on one hand the owners I've seen upgrade their mains when they did the rods- It's not an easy job.

I guarantee there have been many more than just five main bearing failures out there. Only a small portion of owners play on the forums, and even fewer of them are the true experts- fewer still the shops that have volume experience with these engines. Most failures- regardless of type, won't be heard of on forums.

[Eh858]

If I do get a new engine, im still thinking about doing SC, should I swap out the rod bearings right away?

[X5-User]

Originally Posted by Eh858

If I do get a new engine, im still thinking about doing SC, should I swap out the rod bearings right away?

Swapping the rod bearings before installing the new engine would much easier and cost you probably parts only

Where are you getting the engine from? donor car?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Eh858

If I do get a new engine, im still thinking about doing SC, should I swap out the rod bearings right away?

I've got an engine for sale. I'm going to post it up in the engine section soon.

It has the new stock bearings though.

[Eh858]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-M3

Swapping the rod bearings before installing the new engine would much easier and cost you probably parts only

Where are you getting the engine from? donor car?

We called BMW, they have no new ones which run 29k, they have 12 remanned aka rebuilt, that get rebuilt in germany for 21k

[Eh858]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

I've got an engine for sale. I'm going to post it up in the engine section soon.

It has the new stock bearings though.

pm'd

[Green-Eggs]

I also have an engine for sale. Also planning to start a for sale thread on it. It's fresh, new, never been run. Fully built low compression stroker for supercharger. Fully built internals and blueprinted. Fixed bearing and side clearance during build.

[Eh858]

Quick update ladies and gentlemen...

we pulled out the bearings and they all look fine, so now we are at a lost, not too sure where we are going to go from here.... =(

just racking up labor hours looking for the problem...

[tlow98]

You pulled out the main bearings?

[Eh858]

Originally Posted by tlow98

You pulled out the main bearings?

not me but a shop took off the oil pan and everythingt o inspect the bearings and they all look fine

[Brian_Fantana]

Were there any metal debris found in the oil? They may not have looked for that when they drained it. Are they able to turn the crank shaft now with it torn apart?

Really sorry to hear this. Just got my car out of the dealership after 3 weeks of diagnostic work only to find it was oxygen sensors. Hoping your situation ends up being something basic.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Eh858

not me but a shop took off the oil pan and everythingt o inspect the bearings and they all look fine

Then they did not inspect the main bearings. They looked only at the rod bearings, which are the most common cause of engine failure. There have been a few main bearing failures, however.

[deansbimmer]

To inspect the main bearings the shop needs to remove the bottom half of the engine block and lower the crankshaft. If they "just removed the oil pan", then they didn't check the main bearings- which are what usually cause an engine to lock up. Unless you hydrolocked and bent a rod. I've seen that happen when an injector fails and floods a cylinder..

[houston]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

To inspect the main bearings the shop needs to remove the bottom half of the engine block and lower the crankshaft. If they "just removed the oil pan", then they didn't check the main bearings- which are what usually cause an engine to lock up. Unless you hydrolocked and bent a rod. I've seen that happen when an injector fails and floods a cylinder..

*i am not the OP on this thread, just noting observations based on my experience* I had picked up from several of the SC'd engine failure threads that there is typically "noise" associated with rod bearing failure versus hard locking the engine with no warning on main bearing failure. My bone stock s65 locked with no warning or noises. I still have no official diagnosis, but starting to lean more towards main bearing failure based on symptoms. BMW still has my car with no official diagnosis. (1 month and already denied goodwill replacement despite only having 17003 miles)

[squartus]

Originally Posted by Eh858

The very first owner was a very elderly man, I saw the picture of him and his wife in the glove compartment with the sticker/manual, I HIGHLY doubt they would SC haha.... the car had 21k miles on it as a 2012 and I bought it maybe 6 months ago... RIP

What did you end up doing? new engine? used? remanned? how much did it run you?

I ended up doing a stoker build to remove the failure points of the stock engine and to also better handle the supercharger. As the stock block was toasted I also had to replace that as well, so ended up being a complete new bottom end. Found a bran new block, sold the pistions etc in it and ended up only costing 6k. 21k for stroker build, plus what ill have to pay shop for removing/installing engine and doing a refresh on the head. So over 30k bill in the end

[pbonsalb]

But how do you add support for the supercharger drive during the rebuild process? All you can do is use aftermarket bearings that are supposedly stronger/better.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

But how do you add support for the supercharger drive during the rebuild process? All you can do is use aftermarket bearings that are supposedly stronger/better.

Support would be the way to go but I got no idea what the cost of that would end up being if its even viable.
Besides the upgraded main bearings/rod rod bearings the upgraded main hardware will stop the chance of the main bearing housing distorting allowing the bearing to rotate out of the housing and spin the way it did.
"atleast thats what I was told"

Running lower compression etc should help take stress off the engine as well, lighter parts, crank with better clearances for the rod bearings. Also did ceramic coating on domes and teflon sideskirts to help with temps some.

Will see if this prevents anymore issues, hope so. Engine looks like shipping out today to my shop, should have her back on road in couple weeks.

[Eh858]

Hello friends, sorry it took a long time to get back to you guys. This warranty company as been such a fucking hassle, I SUGGEST NO ONE AND I REPEAT NO ONE USE AUTODELTAPROTECT, the fucking worst company to go to.


Anyway, we stripped the engine down to the very failure point "main bearing failure, stuck to the crank shaft) after speaking to the warranty company this part is covered but they will not pay for it due to there being a class action law suit against bmw for it. They stated "the oil pumps are working fine but arent giving enough oil to lubricate the bearings" so they wont cover it... but they just said the oil pumps are working fine? yeah, makes no fucking sense.

I have 24k miles on the car, I spoke to bmw and they are willingly to take a look at it and hopefully good will the engine, towing the frame/torn apart engine to bmw on friday.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Eh858

Anyway, we stripped the engine down to the very failure point "main bearing failure, stuck to the crank shaft) after speaking to the warranty company this part is covered but they will not pay for it due to there being a class action law suit against bmw for it. They stated "the oil pumps are working fine but arent giving enough oil to lubricate the bearings" so they wont cover it... but they just said the oil pumps are working fine? yeah, makes no fucking sense.

I would suggest you call your warranty company again. The class action lawsuit is for the ROD bearings, NOT the main bearings. Sounds like they're trying to screw you.