EVO X: Preview Test

[321]

Originally Posted by mateo

But good luck tuning the Subaru.

edit: just noticed your sig... Have you ever launched an awd car??

[mateo]

Originally Posted by zba857

edit: just noticed your sig... Have you ever launched an awd car??

Why yes I have. I've owned more than a few AWD cars.

-Mateo

[ducati]

Originally Posted by mateo

I agree. But good luck tuning the Subaru. They kick codes when you breath wrong. I'd get the new "10" instead.

-Mateo

Sure, that new alu block seems like a great step forward in tuning potential

I'm not sure why you believe tuning a Scooby is tough. Go visit NASIOC's "Proven Power Bragging" thread. There's plenty of reliably-tuned big AWHP Subarus out there.

I say good luck with the BMW. You're looking at a snail upgrade to put down big numbers, and it's a complete unknown what that will entail, and how much the block/driveline can sustain. EVO has a totally new engine, so it's a tossup. With the STI, you're looking at the same drivetrain as the last-gen, so you're working with a known entity.

[1ster]

I am very much looking forward to some Evo/STI/135i smackdown comparison tests. :roundel: I know the 1er is a different sort of car, but all three are very close in price and power and will no doubt be cross-shopped by performance junkies.

[321]

Originally Posted by mateo

Why yes I have. I've owned more than a few AWD cars.

-Mateo

well then don't you think it should be more like.. "AWD is training wheels for people that don't know how to turn"?

[ducati]

Originally Posted by 1ster

I am very much looking forward to some Evo/STI/135i smackdown comparison tests. :roundel: I know the 1er is a different sort of car, but all three are very close in price and power and will no doubt be cross-shopped by performance junkies.

Absolutely. Will be fun. It's a good time to be an enthusiast.

[mateo]

Originally Posted by zba857

well then don't you think it should be more like.. "AWD is training wheels for people that don't know how to turn"?

Nope. Cuz many people buy AWD, cuz they cant launch. Maybe you dont get it. Thats ok if you dont.

-Mateo

[mateo]

Originally Posted by ducati

Sure, that new alu block seems like a great step forward in tuning potential

I'm not sure why you believe tuning a Scooby is tough. Go visit NASIOC's "Proven Power Bragging" thread. There's plenty of reliably-tuned big AWHP Subarus out there.

I say good luck with the BMW. You're looking at a snail upgrade to put down big numbers, and it's a complete unknown what that will entail, and how much the block/driveline can sustain. EVO has a totally new engine, so it's a tossup. With the STI, you're looking at the same drivetrain as the last-gen, so you're working with a known entity.

I would never buy a DSM or a Subaru. I know for a fact the Subarus suck at being modded w/out logging into some web-site. I dont need luck to own a BMW, it a pleasure.

:roundel:

[321]

Originally Posted by mateo

Nope. Cuz many people buy AWD, cuz they cant launch. Maybe you dont get it. Thats ok if you dont.

-Mateo

No, i get your POV. Its just i have never met an AWD owner that bought it just because they can't launch..:iono:

I would never buy a DSM or a Subaru. I know for a fact the Subarus suck at being modded w/out logging into some web-site. I dont need luck to own a BMW, it a pleasure.

Now this i don't get. Mind extrapolating?

[ducati]

Originally Posted by mateo

I would never buy a DSM or a Subaru. I know for a fact the Subarus suck at being modded w/out logging into some web-site. I dont need luck to own a BMW, it a pleasure.

:roundel:

I never said you needed luck to own a BMW, you only need money. It's too bad it doesn't come with some sort of sense requirement, instead of a cents requirement.

[vinazzurro]

Originally Posted by mateo

I would never buy a DSM or a Subaru. I know for a fact the Subarus suck at being modded w/out logging into some web-site. I dont need luck to own a BMW, it a pleasure.

:roundel:

Originally Posted by zba857

Now this i don't get. Mind extrapolating?

I don't understand it either.

Regardless of what he's saying, Subarus are pretty easily... and cheaply modded. On a WRX, you can expect ~25hp with a re-flash, and another ~25 with a turbo-back exhaust and a second re-flash. The re-flashes can be done via hand-held devices... so we're talking 2 parts here (the exhaust, plus the hand-held re-flashing device) = ~50hp.

I don't see how that counts as difficult to mod or sucky when modded.

[mateo]

The modded Subaru's kick codes all the damn time. Everybody that works on them know that.

[vinazzurro]

Originally Posted by mateo

The modded Subaru's kick codes all the damn time. Everybody that works on them know that.

I had a modified WRX, with 2 of the 3 cats removed, and the ECU reflashed. I never had any trouble... never even a single CEL, and never a word about my mods from my dealership.

[321]

Originally Posted by mateo

Everybody that works on them know that.

Do you work on them? Have you worked on them?

IMO your questionable point is not grounds to classify all of Subaru and DSM w/ the infamous "suck"... I would think you should praise a car for throwing codes? To me that means it is doing its job. I am surprised you are not concerned about the new evo... It's gotta throw a code sometime, no?

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by mateo

I would never buy a DSM or a Subaru. I know for a fact the Subarus suck at being modded w/out logging into some web-site. I dont need luck to own a BMW, it a pleasure.

:roundel:

The EVO isn't Diamond Star Motors, it's straight-up Mitsu. I own a DSM and know the difference. I'm personally not in the market for an EVO or STi, but I respect what they bring to the table. Say what you want but they've earned their rep...it's the 135i that has to prove itself against these cars, not the other way around. And yeah an STi is harder to mod but it's still a very stout platform. Nobody knows how robust the N54 is going to be, but we're sure to find out in the next year or so.

And let's just face facts about BMW "luck", shall we? Even though I'll probably buy a 135i to keep, there's a damn good reason why many owners lease and/or dump their Bimmers near warranty expiration. 'Nuf said.

[ducati]

Alpina's B3 BiTurbo is out now. To the N54 they added:
1. Forged Mahle pistons, CR down to 9.4:1
2. New Engine Mangament mapping
3. 16psi boost

360hp/369tq

That's going to be the tough part of the N54. Those turbos just can't push much air. Alpina obviously didn't feel comfortable with the stock compression ratio, and lowered it a tad to offset the upped boost. They also spec'd forged pistons; anyone know if the stock N54 pistons are forged? Neither of these things are being done by Vishnu et al. I don't know if Alpina is just being very conservative, or if they found some longevity problems with stock pistons/cr. They are a fairly conservative firm.

It will be fun to watch tuners do snail upgrades and see what this thing can take... But it's clear that it will be a challenge to make big power. Alpina claims they worked on the EM for a year to get it well sorted.

FWIW, a downpipe and EM will net you about 60hp/60tq on a STi, running pump gas. A little more if you have it tuned for 93.

Back to the EVO... Anyone excited to see what Mitsu drags out for the RS? I am. That will be the one to watch. I hope we get it in the US.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by ducati

I don't know if Alpina is just being very conservative, or if they found some longevity problems with stock pistons/cr. They are a fairly conservative firm.

Alpina charges serious bucks (unlike Vishnu), therefore they're interested in avoiding as many long-term reliability issues as they can. Lower compression gives them some room to maneuver boost-wise without knowing what every single drop of fuel is doing in a DI motor. They may have found a problem but it sounds more like they're being pre-emptive. Like you said, conservative.

Seems like a very mild upgrade for all that work, though. :iono:

[ichiban]

IMHO, I think it doesn't matter if the car's point and shoot, sure driving at sane speeds will be mundane. But which one of us won't punch it in the city once in a while? Just wait till fifth gear gets their hands on it, they'll make the beast come out. Going 80+ through a corner is not something i would call boring.

[mateo]

Originally Posted by theslik1

The EVO isn't Diamond Star Motors, it's straight-up Mitsu. I own a DSM and know the difference. I'm personally not in the market for an EVO or STi, but I respect what they bring to the table. Say what you want but they've earned their rep...it's the 135i that has to prove itself against these cars, not the other way around. And yeah an STi is harder to mod but it's still a very stout platform. Nobody knows how robust the N54 is going to be, but we're sure to find out in the next year or so.

And let's just face facts about BMW "luck", shall we? Even though I'll probably buy a 135i to keep, there's a damn good reason why many owners lease and/or dump their Bimmers near warranty expiration. 'Nuf said.

The 135I does not have to prove anything to those cars. You are talking about 2 diff lay outs here. And the day a BMW is in the same class as a damn mits or subaru is the day I'll just buy a chevy. Not going to ever happen. Mits makes a better car that subaru, but thats about it. They know nothing about how to run a company, and they are damn lucky to even have any dealers left to support them, or should I say damn lucky to even still be here in the US. If it wasnt for the EVO they would not still be here, and they still owe move than 50 million USD for the fact they are still here.

:roundel:

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by mateo

The 135I does not have to prove anything to those cars. You are talking about 2 diff lay outs here. And the day a BMW is in the same class as a damn mits or subaru is the day I'll just buy a chevy. Not going to ever happen. Mits makes a better car that subaru, but thats about it. They know nothing about how to run a company, and they are damn lucky to even have any dealers left to support them, or should I say damn lucky to even still be here in the US. If it wasnt for the EVO they would not still be here, and they still owe move than 50 million USD for the fact they are still here.

:roundel:

Geez, we get it already, you're a fanboi. Some of us really like the 135i but still recognize that it's not going to automatically be the undisputed leader in its class. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 135i hasn't proven anything yet. Not a single damn thing. It is going to be directly compared to alot of cars that have proven themselves including the EVO and STi whether you like it or not. It's highly unlikely a 135i will pull 0.96g on the skidpad right out of the box, but hey that EVO sure is a POS, huh?

Maybe you should buy a Chevy...you're sounding just like those "Buy American" jugheads.

[mateo]

Originally Posted by theslik1

Geez, we get it already, you're a fanboi. Some of us really like the 135i but still recognize that it's not going to automatically be the undisputed leader in its class. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 135i hasn't proven anything yet. Not a single damn thing. It is going to be directly compared to alot of cars that have proven themselves including the EVO and STi whether you like it or not. It's highly unlikely a 135i will pull 0.96g on the skidpad right out of the box, but hey that EVO sure is a POS, huh?

Maybe you should buy a Chevy...you're sounding just like those "Buy American" jugheads.

Feel better now.

:roundel:

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by mateo

Feel better now.

:roundel: