Before I think about an M3, which car do I learn how to drive a MT on?

[swartzentruber]

For what it's worth, I taught my wife to drive a stick shift after we got married, and of the manual cars we went through before she got really comfortable, she says the Jetta Diesel we owned was the best in her learning process. Because it was a diesel, you didn't need to give it much gas to get it going. An additional benefit is that you had to shift it a lot to keep it in the powerband, so I'm sure she had a lot of practice shifting.

[dizzyj]

1983 dodge omni. With bad syncros and a failing clutch. And you have to do your drivers test in it. with a bad battery. So that if you stall, the friendly officer becomes not so friendly.

everything else is cheating

[Flux Autosport]

Get a civic for 1-2k and learn on it. You could sell it on Craigslist afterwards and probably get the money you paid for it back.

[Krozi]

The M3 is the car I learned to drive stick shift on. Because I'm a man.

Lol its really no big deal...the car is plenty solid. As long as you're not driving like an idiot you're not going to overly hurt anything.

[Slapshot9]

John Deere 3060 tractor, what I learned on. Or any E36.

[Morning Hawk]

Any Nissan 350/370Z or Infiniti G35/G37 6MT is an excellent platform to learn on. The gates are solid and unquestionable. My experience with BMW's are that the gates are a little "sloshy" and sometimes you're not entirely sure if you made it in their all the way.

Maybe the synchro's are just really good(?)... but on the Nissan/Infiniti's the gates have a solid click'n'snap feel to them...

this is of course, IMHO

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by xquisit

I

I would definitely stay away from anything produced forty years ago, but I would be honored to drive a piece of history!

.

Actually a lot of the MTs produced 40 years ago were very good. althought they were 4 speeds the Muscle Cars and Pony Cars of that era had very good transmissions and shifters.

CA

[F82_SID]

I ordered my 335i in a MT without knowing really how to drive it. I probably stalled it 8 times on the way home from picking it up from the dealership. As long as you are not a dumb ass than you should be fine. Within a few days I driving it with no problems. Now I am on my second BMW MT and I am still working on perfecting advanced MT driving techniques. I even taught my ex gf to drive manual on my 335. The good thing about learning on my bimmer was that everything was under warranty.

[Poofyo101]

You can learn on any car. I learned on a 95 Ford Ranger (which we still have). Once you learn to drive a manual...you can drive any manual within a few minutes.

[richardg]

hit up craigslist for a beater e30 with a 5spd. costs next to nothing to keep on the road and they are a lot of fun.

[TVMA Doc]

Originally Posted by rdollie

Most any late model (by which I mean built in the past 10 years or so) Honda will do. As a mass-produced car line, I think they have the best manuals and if you can get your hands on a S2000 that hasn't been thrashed to death go for it.

As an S2000 owner I'd have to suggest caution if you go the S2000 route. The vehicle has a nasty tendency to snap oversteer. This combined with the sudden increase in torque with the Vtech can cause a driver who isn't intimately familiar with the vehicle to lose control.

There's a reason that Top Gear had a segment in which they taught "grannies" to do donuts in an S2000. It's somewhat difficult NOT to do donuts in an S2000. It can be unfortunate if there happens to be another vehicle or a tree in the way.

If you go convertible, I would at least be able to say that the S2000 almost certainly has the strongest window frame. If you ever roll a Miata, Solstice, etc. you may be crushed under the car. With the S2000 the frame almost always supports the vehicle's weight.

Just be aware that an S2000 requires quite a bit of experience and should never be driven in a spirited manner in inclement weather.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/6458...cident-thread/

[jphughan]

I learned on my M3. Did a lot of reading beforehand for tips, best practices, habits to avoid, how a manual transmission actually works and therefore why things need to be done the way they are, etc. I probably learned about as much about driving stick beforehand as you can without actually driving because I didn't want to screw it up. I even created a thread on this forum that generated a lot of really helpful responses: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501071. I'm told that the M3 is actually a pretty easy car to learn on compared to other MT cars; I haven't spent enough time in other MT cars to confirm that, but I certainly didn't have a problem after doing my homework beforehand.

I recommend initially going out and learning late at night when there aren't any cars out. If you can, try to find a long, level, rectangular-style route so that you can just keep going up and down long stretches of road to get a feel for shifting. Just keep going around and around that circuit night after night until you get a good feel for shifting. Once you've gotten comfortable driving late at night, move into driving during the day, but take it easy and give yourself plenty of distance between you and the car in front of you until you start to get an intuitive sense of when to shift, clutch in while braking, etc, otherwise you might end up stalling at a bad moment or even rear-ending someone -- stalling is especially likely if you realize you suddenly need to brake hard (e.g. you're about to drive past your destination/intersection) and don't remember to clutch in at the same time. After that, head onto the freeway when there's little to no traffic. That's a really great place to practice upshifting and rev-matched downshifting because you can safely use third through sixth at highway speeds. Just travel at a constant speed and work your way up and down those four gears. Note that if you're in the break-in period you should omit third from this exercise.

After that, go out at night again and find a really steep hill somewhere to practice starting on a hill. The best scenario of all is to find a street that has curb parking with nobody actually parked there. Pull up right alongside the curb to get out of the way of actual traffic, and then you can start and stop (and probably stall) to your heart's content without bothering anybody. If you stall, just remember you can always pull the e-brake to stop rolling backwards if you can't brake hard enough to stop while the engine is off and power brakes aren't available. You can use the e-brake hill start method during actual driving until you've mastered doing it without, but I actually found it easier to just go straight to doing it properly without relying on that method.

Then you might actually want to practice going backwards up that hill without rolling too far forward initially since you'll need to be able to handle your car well in both directions if you ever need to park between cars on a hill and avoid hitting them.

[newbieguy]

Originally Posted by Flux Autosport

Get a civic for 1-2k and learn on it. You could sell it on Craigslist afterwards and probably get the money you paid for it back.

+1 on this

[JZBDCT]

Cayman S. That first quarter of ownership, I think I stalled 7 times in an intersection.

[mdosu]

doesn't matter, I would also say Honda Civic, though on a sports car, the clutch engagement will be less forgiving, as the friction area will be smaller than a standard passenger car.

Since every car's engagment point is different, it doesn't really matter as it's impossible to duplicate the feel of the M3 MT. I do suggest that you drive the MT car EVERYDAY for an extended peroid. It's not a matter of learning how to get it from stop to go, etc, but it's about driving it in all scenarios (around town, hwy, with distractions). to be honest, it took me 1.5-2 years to be 100% comfortable driving a MT. (my M3 is not my first daily MT).

[mdosu]

to note, the M3 is one of the most forgiving MT high performance cars I've ever driven. If you want to drive a "difficult" MT car, try an Evo 8. Holy crap that "sweet spot" is difficult to master smoothly.

this is why I don't suggest going to a "high performance" car for your practice. Learn to live with the MT on a daily basis, and it'll be easier with a standard passenger car. The first month of daily driving is critical learning peroid. It'll be fustrating and embrassing.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by a240reef

Cayman S. That first quarter of ownership, I think I stalled 7 times in an intersection.

in the SF bay area?! Major metro/city driving, hills, constant slowing down, stop/gos, that takes some balls.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

fadat aziz,


Ghorboonet,
Mo

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by Nine

WTF?!

[luis_m3]

Originally Posted by USC2000

Honda Civic or Acura RSX. The Si or Type S versions if possible.

+1000 for the budget that you've mentioned! In fact, even until this day, I miss my Civic SI; great car and lots of fun!

[xquisit]

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

For what it's worth, I taught my wife to drive a stick shift after we got married, and of the manual cars we went through before she got really comfortable, she says the Jetta Diesel we owned was the best in her learning process. Because it was a diesel, you didn't need to give it much gas to get it going. An additional benefit is that you had to shift it a lot to keep it in the powerband, so I'm sure she had a lot of practice shifting.

Wish my pops got a e90 335D, instead of that 328i e92 LCI (he was coming from an m-tech 135i), but the coupe is beautiful (and he doesn't have to worry about the problems the n54 was giving him).

I wouldn't mind riding in a jetta, the GLI's are nice looking.

Originally Posted by dizzyj

1983 dodge omni. With bad syncros and a failing clutch. And you have to do your drivers test in it. with a bad battery. So that if you stall, the friendly officer becomes not so friendly.

everything else is cheating

That's rough!

Originally Posted by Flux Autosport

Get a civic for 1-2k and learn on it. You could sell it on Craigslist afterwards and probably get the money you paid for it back.

My thoughts, exactly.

Originally Posted by Krozi

The M3 is the car I learned to drive stick shift on. Because I'm a man.

Lol its really no big deal...the car is plenty solid. As long as you're not driving like an idiot you're not going to overly hurt anything.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind learning on my second BMW... I want to test drive the car without worrying about stalling continuously.

Originally Posted by Slapshot9

John Deere 3060 tractor, what I learned on. Or any E36.

Tractor, got none on me at the moment

E36 M3, I'm being a brat for wanting one.. I'll report back when I find a nice e36 three series on the net.

Originally Posted by Morning Hawk

Any Nissan 350/370Z or Infiniti G35/G37 6MT is an excellent platform to learn on. The gates are solid and unquestionable. My experience with BMW's are that the gates are a little "sloshy" and sometimes you're not entirely sure if you made it in their all the way.

Maybe the synchro's are just really good(?)... but on the Nissan/Infiniti's the gates have a solid click'n'snap feel to them...

this is of course, IMHO

And I appreciate your opinion, and hope to drive that HR 350Z my brother's friend picked up from him!

My little brother picked up the new 5.0 (3.73 + brembo pkg), and I totally want to drive it (6MT). At the moment, we are on bad terms (haha, brotherly love).

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Actually a lot of the MTs produced 40 years ago were very good. althought they were 4 speeds the Muscle Cars and Pony Cars of that era had very good transmissions and shifters.

CA

I've got this thing for 'stangs! Lovely vehicles with an excellent factory exhaust note.

Originally Posted by E92_SID

I ordered my 335i in a MT without knowing really how to drive it. I probably stalled it 8 times on the way home from picking it up from the dealership. As long as you are not a dumb ass than you should be fine. Within a few days I driving it with no problems. Now I am on my second BMW MT and I am still working on perfecting advanced MT driving techniques. I even taught my ex gf to drive manual on my 335. The good thing about learning on my bimmer was that everything was under warranty.

Just the motivation I need, and I totally would love to drive a 335i for a DD! I drove my father's 135i (once), and those turbos sure do kick in early (1800RPM?).

Originally Posted by Poofyo101

You can learn on any car. I learned on a 95 Ford Ranger (which we still have). Once you learn to drive a manual...you can drive any manual within a few minutes.

I wish my brother never sold his Mitsubishi 3000Gt, It was a beauty & I wouldn't have this problem I have now.

Originally Posted by richardg

hit up craigslist for a beater e30 with a 5spd. costs next to nothing to keep on the road and they are a lot of fun.

Really? If so, then I don't have to worry about large maintenance bills, and can start the search now (I haven't really been searching the german used car market, just the japanese at the moment).

Originally Posted by TVMA Doc

As an S2000 owner I'd have to suggest caution if you go the S2000 route. The vehicle has a nasty tendency to snap oversteer. This combined with the sudden increase in torque with the Vtech can cause a driver who isn't intimately familiar with the vehicle to lose control.

There's a reason that Top Gear had a segment in which they taught "grannies" to do donuts in an S2000. It's somewhat difficult NOT to do donuts in an S2000. It can be unfortunate if there happens to be another vehicle or a tree in the way.

If you go convertible, I would at least be able to say that the S2000 almost certainly has the strongest window frame. If you ever roll a Miata, Solstice, etc. you may be crushed under the car. With the S2000 the frame almost always supports the vehicle's weight.

Just be aware that an S2000 requires quite a bit of experience and should never be driven in a spirited manner in inclement weather.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/6458...cident-thread/

I have seen a friend go over a puddle, in an S2k, and almost lose it (bald tires + oversteer I believe)...that frightened me.

I checked out the s2k pricing, and it's out of question.

To be honest, I wish I could afford/find a nice e36 M3 and keep it for a track car... or sell it, and try to get a used M3 in 2-3 years.

Originally Posted by jphughan

I learned on my M3. Did a lot of reading beforehand for tips, best practices, habits to avoid, how a manual transmission actually works and therefore why things need to be done the way they are, etc. I probably learned about as much about driving stick beforehand as you can without actually driving because I didn't want to screw it up. I even created a thread on this forum that generated a lot of really helpful responses: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=501071. I'm told that the M3 is actually a pretty easy car to learn on compared to other MT cars; I haven't spent enough time in other MT cars to confirm that, but I certainly didn't have a problem after doing my homework beforehand.

I recommend initially going out and learning late at night when there aren't any cars out. If you can, try to find a long, level, rectangular-style route so that you can just keep going up and down long stretches of road to get a feel for shifting. Just keep going around and around that circuit night after night until you get a good feel for shifting. Once you've gotten comfortable driving late at night, move into driving during the day, but take it easy and give yourself plenty of distance between you and the car in front of you until you start to get an intuitive sense of when to shift, clutch in while braking, etc, otherwise you might end up stalling at a bad moment or even rear-ending someone -- stalling is especially likely if you realize you suddenly need to brake hard (e.g. you're about to drive past your destination/intersection) and don't remember to clutch in at the same time. After that, head onto the freeway when there's little to no traffic. That's a really great place to practice upshifting and rev-matched downshifting because you can safely use third through sixth at highway speeds. Just travel at a constant speed and work your way up and down those four gears. Note that if you're in the break-in period you should omit third from this exercise.

After that, go out at night again and find a really steep hill somewhere to practice starting on a hill. The best scenario of all is to find a street that has curb parking with nobody actually parked there. Pull up right alongside the curb to get out of the way of actual traffic, and then you can start and stop (and probably stall) to your heart's content without bothering anybody. If you stall, just remember you can always pull the e-brake to stop rolling backwards if you can't brake hard enough to stop while the engine is off and power brakes aren't available. You can use the e-brake hill start method during actual driving until you've mastered doing it without, but I actually found it easier to just go straight to doing it properly without relying on that method.

Then you might actually want to practice going backwards up that hill without rolling too far forward initially since you'll need to be able to handle your car well in both directions if you ever need to park between cars on a hill and avoid hitting them.

This was such an enjoyable post to read, thank you very much. Later tonight, I'm headed towards the thread you made in the past.

Thanks a bunch, and I can't wait to share what I decide to do with the community!

Originally Posted by newbieguy

+1 on this

Originally Posted by a240reef

Cayman S. That first quarter of ownership, I think I stalled 7 times in an intersection.

That's a story! First car to learn a MT on, a Porsche, nice!!!!

I saw some for pretty cheap, 30k USD /w 70k miles.

Porsche... Do want.

Originally Posted by mdosu

doesn't matter, I would also say Honda Civic, though on a sports car, the clutch engagement will be less forgiving, as the friction area will be smaller than a standard passenger car.

Since every car's engagment point is different, it doesn't really matter as it's impossible to duplicate the feel of the M3 MT. I do suggest that you drive the MT car EVERYDAY for an extended peroid. It's not a matter of learning how to get it from stop to go, etc, but it's about driving it in all scenarios (around town, hwy, with distractions). to be honest, it took me 1.5-2 years to be 100% comfortable driving a MT. (my M3 is not my first daily MT).

This has to be great advice. I would hate to buy the car, and not fully take advantage of it. I have a long period to save up, and decide if the car is worth it (financially)... so much to think about!

Originally Posted by mdosu

to note, the M3 is one of the most forgiving MT high performance cars I've ever driven. If you want to drive a "difficult" MT car, try an Evo 8. Holy crap that "sweet spot" is difficult to master smoothly.

this is why I don't suggest going to a "high performance" car for your practice. Learn to live with the MT on a daily basis, and it'll be easier with a standard passenger car. The first month of daily driving is critical learning peroid. It'll be fustrating and embrassing.

I suppose, I will get on my little brother's good side... and take his Rousch modded 450hp 'stang for a ride. The rose bowl should be a nice place to learn... hmm, isn't that where "Brian" from F&F learned how to drive in the movie (with the green GST/GSX)?

Originally Posted by mdosu

in the SF bay area?! Major metro/city driving, hills, constant slowing down, stop/gos, that takes some balls.

I've been to SF, once, and it was a beautiful place. I would definitely panic learning to drive on all those slopes for the first time, haha.

Originally Posted by Nine

Not sure what's the problem here... /shrug

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

WTF?!

I suppose he/she doesn't like seeing a language that's been around for such a long time

Originally Posted by luis_m3

+1000 for the budget that you've mentioned! In fact, even until this day, I miss my Civic SI; great car and lots of fun!

Much respect!

Any pictures of the Si, which year?

[Nine]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

WTF?!

Too much, sounded like my uncles talking to each other. My FOB meter broke.

Originally Posted by xquisit

I suppose he/she doesn't like seeing a language that's been around for such a long time

Please, you guys sound like husband and wife.
Asal eh man

There are many of us persian guys here on the forum