"Needs a Drop"

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by aajami

That's exactly what I did:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411923

Thanks! I'm familiar with your retrofit and applaud you for being a pioneer. I can't wait to see how you like your exhaust - I'm a big fan of OEM!

[eluder]

OP, I feel the same way about spacers now. Looks great as stock.

[jackka]

always wondered the point myself.

"If I wanted a stiff ride and no clearance I'd buy a GT3."

haha, i love that line.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by RandyB

Thanks! I'm familiar with your retrofit and applaud you for being a pioneer. I can't wait to see how you like your exhaust - I'm a big fan of OEM!

Thank you, sir. I prefer to stick with OEM whenever possible as well. I'll post impressions of the exhaust as soon as it's on the car.

[Brosef]

dropped on KWV3's here. I'm not too low though - I went with KW's recommended specs. car rides a little stiffer, but not so much that it would be a nuisance in daily driving. if you ask me, the M3 is a bit soft from the factory - even sport mode of EDC rode softer than comfort mode of my 997 carrera. as far as clearance goes, I haven't had any issues. depends on where you live I suppose, but here in Chicago I haven't yet had an occasion where I was wincing going up a driveway or anything. sure, I make an extra effort to approach inclines at an angle, but I haven't scraped once yet. most importantly, however, I can honestly say that there is a noticeable improvement in handling and stability, especially with changing direction.

as far as aesthetics go, I think most would agree that the M3 starts to look a bit awkwardly tall when its wheels are pushed out (either through adding spacers or going with aftermarket wheels that sit more flush), which is why people usually insert the "needs a drop" comment in the case where someone has added wheels or spacers. not to mention, doing either of the aforementioned is typically for cosmetic purposes, so it's presupposed that anyone who has made that move might also be interested in "completing the look."

[sensi09]

Without a lip, the M3 has a quite a bit of clearance at stock height, so that shouldn't scare anyone away if they really want to lower. With just springs though, I'd question if there is really much of a difference in terms of handling. Lower center of gravity sure and slightly higher spring rates, but I think much of the "improved handling" is psychological. I've lowered a few cars with just springs, and sure it looks good, but have never been satisfied in terms of performance or ride.

If I were to lower the car, I'd want springs and dampers to be matched, like coilovers or even the ZCP suspension. Don't see myself spending the money on an OEM suspension versus aftermarket though.

[Mr.Bimmer]

Sorry for the poor phone pic, but this is all I have. This is my car on the Eibach pro-kit. So far I'm very pleased with them. Pleased because A) it rides close to stock, B) the ride is firmed up "a little bit" and C) I have yet to feel any weird suspension issues driving with the springs. I still need more seat time with them and I'll post my review. The trick to lowering these cars, as said by another forum member on here a while back (Radiation Joe) is not to lower the car too much. There's no such thing (and I'm not saying anyone in this post has said this) as having the car dumped and retaining the optimal handling in OEM fashion. I can tell you though, with my springs, proper alignment, and fresh Potenza RE-11's, I can take the turns a little faster. The Eibach doesn't lower the car a whole lot more than OEM.

[JIO]

It's so interesting how using lowering springs make all the difference to ride look...and then totally destroy all the millions of dollars BMW spent testing and retesting suspensions. I'm surprised BMW doesn't talk to the tuners as they can make lowering springs in 20 minutes to make the car "perfect", thus passing the savings on to us.

With the ZCP, BMW did more than just lower the car 10mm. They retuned the entire suspension once again to tweak the system into the best handling car that it is. Yea, it probably handles better than the "normal' M3, like mine, but very few of could ever extract the performance out of either of them to tell a difference. If one did a back-to -back test, 9999 out of 10,000 couldn't tell them apart.

As for ride stance, it's all a matter of taste. If you're under 25, the car needs to be slammed so you can't see the tops of the tires in the fenderwell. If you're between 25 and 40, you want it slammed so you can just see the top of the tire in the tirewell. and if you're over 40 and including the other 28 people who might even care about ride height, they're going to leave it just as it is.

It's people's own money, so if they want to spend thousands on new exhausts, suspension parts, and carbon fiber hoods and trunks, it's fine. I'd rather just drive the best car in the world and be able to carry on a conversation with my passenger at highway speeds without wearing a two-way headset, watching my hood flap about, and having my fillings rattle out of my mouth.

Top Gear summed it up a few weeks ago when they tested 3 E30 used BMW's. "If the car has been lowered, run away from the deal as fast as you can". It was in reference to one of the cars that was lowered was all over the track when they tested it. It was so bad at handling.

But I digress...he he.

[piloto]

This has been debated ad nausuem, but here goes...

Lowered CG, higher spring rates (in some cases non-linear) and more damping in compression and/or rebound does not automatically translate in improved handling, nor improved grip.

Adjustability for a suspension truly provide the driver (and race engineer) the ability to set the car up properly for a particular driving style and track layout, and in some cases, it might help with gaining an aerodynamic advantage (assuming ground effects and compromise made in the name of ground effects).

The bottom line is that ANY suspension design is a compromise. That applies to handling as well, which is tbasically he dynamic behavior of the car while in motion, in particular in transient stages such as cornering, but not exlcusing acceleration and braking (think anti-squat and anti-dive suspension geometry). One also has to consider any car's handling ability under maximum load (e.g. full of passengers and cargo), tire wear, road condtions (when's the last time the road you drove on was as smooth as some race tracks? And this is not relating to ride comfort...), roll centers (and roll axis), steering geometry and how steering input impacts movement in the suspension, weather conditions, driver ability, etc. All of these parameters mean that to gain more of "this," you often discard more of "that."

So, to keep this post somewhat readble, a multi-adjustable coilover, even one with preloaded springs, does not automatically translate into better handling. Better handling is not a universal term anyway. It might be better for your driving style, but not mine. But it does give you the ability to adjust it, and if you're into running your car in a race and will gather data lap after lap, and make adjustments until your as fast as you feel possible, it makes sense for you. Short of a person going that far to ensure their set-up is optimal for that track on that day, coilovers or any other aftermarket suspension that lowers your car are simply enahcing the aesthetics of your car (for most eyes, including mine).

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by piloto

This has been debated ad nausuem, but here goes...

Lowered CG, higher spring rates (in some cases non-linear) and more damping in compression and/or rebound does not automatically translate in improved handling, nor improved grip.

Adjustability for a suspension truly provide the driver (and race engineer) the ability to set the car up properly for a particular driving style and track layout, and in some cases, it might help with gaining an aerodynamic advantage (assuming ground effects and compromise made in the name of ground effects).

The bottom line is that ANY suspension design is a compromise. That applies to handling as well, which is tbasically he dynamic behavior of the car while in motion, in particular in transient stages such as cornering, but not exlcusing acceleration and braking (think anti-squat and anti-dive suspension geometry). One also has to consider any car's handling ability under maximum load (e.g. full of passengers and cargo), tire wear, road condtions (when's the last time the road you drove on was as smooth as some race tracks? And this is not relating to ride comfort...), roll centers (and roll axis), steering geometry and how steering input impacts movement in the suspension, weather conditions, driver ability, etc. All of these parameters mean that to gain more of "this," you often discard more of "that."

So, to keep this post somewhat readble, a multi-adjustable coilover, even one with preloaded springs, does not automatically translate into better handling. Better handling is not a universal term anyway. It might be better for your driving style, but not mine. But it does give you the ability to adjust it, and if you're into running your car in a race and will gather data lap after lap, and make adjustments until your as fast as you feel possible, it makes sense for you. Short of a person going that far to ensure their set-up is optimal for that track on that day, coilovers or any other aftermarket suspension that lowers your car are simply enahcing the aesthetics of your car (for most eyes, including mine).

+1, especially the "ad nauseum" part.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm a patent attorney

No wonder you won't touch the roundels.

[kitw]

You know what is funny?

Go park your M3 next to a 335i. You'll be saying, "Dang, I need a drop!"

It's funny, my wife's 335i had as much fender gap as my car did... AFTER I put on the Dinan Stage 1 on the M3.

[dexx]

ZCP scrapes everywhere... lower? blah.. If you want a lower CG get a Subaru or a GT40.

I'm sure you could get someone to build you a low rider. Complete with circus music.

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by kitw

You know what is funny?

Go park your M3 next to a 335i. You'll be saying, "Dang, I need a drop!"

It's funny, my wife's 335i had as much fender gap as my car did... AFTER I put on the Dinan Stage 1 on the M3.

+1 soooo true

my stock 2011 e92 3er fender gap is exactly the same as the m3 zcp...as i measured it..also when looking at both cars from behind side by side, the m3 is taller or higher by at least 1.5 inches...maybe because of 19s vs 17s?

maybe zcp isnt even lowered at all...they just advertised it that way as a selling point....

[MonteCarloM3]

Originally Posted by Richbot

As for your paint, well, I wasn't "hating", son, I was making a joke at your (considerable) expense. Monte Carlo Blue is an awesome color.

ur funny, keep up the posts, i like to be amused.

[tlr]

I'd rather have spacers pushing the wheels outward than a drop moving them upward.

IMO there should be equal space all around the wheel between the wheel and fender.

Since the radius of the wheel and fender is different, dropping the car such that the top is flush looks terrible.

[spyderco10]

I think the M3 with stock wheels and stock ride height looks perfectly fine. But when you start modding it, with aftermarket wheels especially, you NEED a drop, if only for aesthetics.

[BMW08M3]

Check Out Ast Suspension 4200 ! Very Nice

[knifegun]

Originally Posted by klammer

I went with dinan stg 3 and thought it actually improved handling and feel and did that after my first track day with the car. The car handles great stock, but at the track a few weakness come out and wanted to address that while maintaining EDC, and feel dinan is more of a performance over aesthetic mod. Like a bit less fender gap but the "slammed" look is a bit much for a street car

Completely agree. I have Dinan springs. While the suspension is great for the street, it is soft for track use. Dinan does not produce much of a "drop" but does improve the handling. With that said, I still wish EDC could make the car stiffer on the track as you can feel the weight of the car. The fact the brake pads melt is not a good thing either.

[Georgeair]

Agreed, on all counts.

[MonteCarloM3]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm a patent attorney so I thought I'd chime in here - I for one love your paint job Monte CarloM3 .

Back on topic, I agree completely with the OP. Dropping the car really does make using the car as a DD appreciably more difficult - which is why I haven't dropped my car. But I have to say, even knowing this fact, I find myself dangerously tempted by the looks of a nice drop. It really does look THAT much better.

shanks esquire.

[ManAndMachine]

The ZCP drop and EDC is perfect for everyday driving and occasional track day.

I have no complaints so far