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02-11-2007, 01:30 PM | #1 |
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New M3 horsepower will most likely be less than 420 hp
I have been on the waiting list for the new M3 at my local dealer for over a year and anticipating the new M3, hopefully it will be here before 2008.
A lot of members are referencing historical data regarding release dates and other data and it is widely assumed that the new M3 will have more horsepower than the current Audi RS4 which is rated at 420 hp. 440 hp has been mentioned a lot. The E36 M3 was rated at 240 hp and the Audio S4 at the time was a 2.7 TT with 250 hp. The E46 M3 was 333 hp, the Audi S4 at the time was a 4.2l V8 at 340 hp. Of note, the M3 was always lighter and faster none the less. Assuming we regard the RS4 in the same light as the S4s before it, the new M3 will have less than 420 hp, but should be faster and lighter. Ken, |
02-11-2007, 01:58 PM | #2 | |
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B7 S4 came out after the E46 M3 with 340 hp... my opinion is that i think the E92 will have more than 420.... but if its less it will be 414-420...
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02-11-2007, 03:03 PM | #3 |
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One data point
An interesting point about BMW vs Audi hp. I strongly disagree though.
There is solid engineering reasoning to support a MINIMUM of 424 hp (actual). Of course since BMW has some history of under rating who knows where the brochure number will end up (and I don't really care too much). Have a look at my post here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...t=44852&page=3 . Let me know if you think my reasoning is faulty. |
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02-11-2007, 03:54 PM | #5 |
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02-11-2007, 08:27 PM | #6 |
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Minumum or actual brochure number?
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02-11-2007, 09:02 PM | #7 |
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E36 in Europe = 280 something and 321bhp compared to 250bhp S4
E46 in Europe = 343bhp compared to 344bhp S4 E92 in Europe = 420bhp compared to 414bhp RS4? Seems likely us Europeans will get a higher output than the RS4, because M don't want to have lost that battle with this generation and at some point during its lifespan, the next RS4 with 450bhp+... And that's the crux, this M3 has to compete with the next RS4 as well and unless they bring out an EVO model, going for less than the current RS4 would leave them with a massive marketing disadvantage and that doesn't sell cars to the non-hardcore drivers set.
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02-11-2007, 09:07 PM | #8 |
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The coming C63 is claimed to have 450hp, I trust a M3 V8 with 420hp will still beat the C63 in straight if not, they will still be pretty close.
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02-12-2007, 07:39 AM | #9 |
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Horsepower to weight ratio is what is really important here, not pure horsepower. Lighter weight will give a car more improved dynamics than just adding more horsepower.
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02-12-2007, 02:26 PM | #11 |
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Details?
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02-13-2007, 09:20 AM | #12 |
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The good news is the HP will be at least 400 hp, let's hope the weight is good.
The horsepower will be over 400 hp and will have a lot more torque than the previous M3s, being a V8. Let's hope it will weigh close to 3400 lbs. That's a power to weight of 8.5 lbs/hp, which would be really nice.
This is all speculation, but somehow just chatting about the car helps with the wait, at least it feels like it does. Maybe forgetting about it until it arrives is the best way to "deal", there really is nothing we can do to expedite the release. Ken, |
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02-13-2007, 09:28 AM | #13 | |
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02-13-2007, 10:38 AM | #15 |
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The torque numbers will tell the story. If bmw can deliver the V8 with more torque than the hp then you'll have something special.
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02-13-2007, 10:41 AM | #16 |
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02-13-2007, 10:43 AM | #17 |
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They can't without turbocharging, and they will keep it naturally aspirated. Torque will be around 300 lb/ft if the engine delivers 400 hp or so.
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02-13-2007, 10:46 AM | #18 |
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I know, I admit it! Maybe it is because I would rather be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed.
But the 335 coupe is listed at 3571 by BMW on its website. I think the V8, larger brakes, larger wheels and tires, and suspension changes will increase overall weight even if M tries to cut weight elsewhere such as by using cf or composite body parts. Who knows, though -- maybe the car will have ceramic brakes, a cf roof and other weight-saving features (like Flexray ) that will enable the car to weigh less than the 335! |
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02-13-2007, 11:41 AM | #19 | |
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Yes! I really don't mind the M3 is 400hp, even 50hp less than C63, so long the price is more affordable than the C63. There is no replacement for displacement , a V8 is a V8, the M3 will have plenty of torque, at any speed range comes in handy. If weight is issue, we can wait for the E92 M3 CSL version About weight, my 330i E90 is 1560kg, my C55 is 1650kg, I say, the M3 E92 is somehere in between. Fanatics will always cut the roof and replace the hood with CF.
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02-13-2007, 12:10 PM | #20 |
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I never understood why people added all the A/C, Radio and Navi stuff back into CSLs. Mine would have stayed the way M intended.
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02-13-2007, 05:31 PM | #21 |
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Because they can. Like I have said before, there is a lot of talk on this forum.
I see very little action. I highly doubt there is any poster here that would spent the money on a CSL just to take it to the track, mostly because many here just dream and can't buy. But in the meantime telling the ones that can, how much the hate what they do. If you want to be a purist get this It's going to be cheaper, faster and a pure track/ streetcar
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02-13-2007, 05:45 PM | #22 |
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For the "purist" out there. Here are some numbers on that car.
Engine 1.8 liter inline-4 Weight 2057 lbs Aspiration supercharger & intercooler Torque 158.6 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm HP 218 hp @ 7800 rpm HP/Weight 9.5 lbs per hp HP/Liter 121.4 hp per liter 0-100 mph 9.98 seconds 0-60 mph 4.1 seconds Top Speed 148 mph
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