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      03-06-2009, 10:08 PM   #1
dizman7
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93 Octane w/ 10% Ethonal?

I haven't come across any 93 octane yet where I live (let's not get into 93 vs 91) but I briefly saw on some other forums that there is 93 octane out there that is only that because it's 10% ethonal.

I really don't know much about this stuff (yet, that's why I'm asking) but thought I'd ask just incase I happen to stumble across some, is that bad for an 08 E92 M3? or should I only use "pure" 93 (if I ever found it).
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      03-06-2009, 11:49 PM   #2
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if i remember correctly, the manual says that any fuel with ehthanol is bad for the engine. you have to double check it though
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      03-07-2009, 12:58 AM   #3
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I think every gas station around here has a sign that says "contains 10% or less of ethanol" and I put 93 here. I doubt its going to be bad for the engine
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      03-07-2009, 01:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3manila View Post
if i remember correctly, the manual says that any fuel with ehthanol is bad for the engine. you have to double check it though

Good call, here's what I found in the manual: (page 195)

Fuels containing up to and including 10% ethanol or other oxygenates with up to 2.8% oxygen by weight, that is, 15% MTBE or 3% methanol plus and equivalent amount of co-solvent, will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materails or workmanship.

I don't understand a lot of that, but it sounds like it is ok, but I want to double check with someone who understands this all more than I do.
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      03-07-2009, 08:15 AM   #5
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being a BMW service advisor, ethanol is my enemy!

BMW says that you should not use any fuel that contains more than 10% ethanol in it.

I see lots of cars coming in for rough running and "service engine soon" lights because of a high percentage of ethanol.

BMW warranty will not pay for repairs if you use bad gas which really makes people mad. I agree with BMW but people do not when they are in need of a new fuel filter, pump or whatever else might fail by using 'bad gas'

Use top tier fuel. BMW recommends Quik Trip, Cheveron, Shell as their top gas stations-

BP fuel is NOT recommended by BMW!

I have seen as high at 25% ethanol in some cars that come into service.

People can afford or justify the expensive car but cannot pay the extra .30 cents a gallon for the proper gas for some reason.
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      03-07-2009, 08:22 AM   #6
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I use to not believe this. I have always used Mobil in my Mercedes when I lived in Wisconsin and my father uses Shell in Hong Kong. After moving to Boston, I continued to use Mobil in my E55 at the time but after a year, the Mobil station closed so I switched to Shell. I actually noticed a difference in how the engine ran better / smoother than when I used Mobil. I thought it was just placebo, so I tried Mobil a couple more times and noticed the same difference. All these gas are 93 octane (R+M/2) with up to 10% of ETOH.
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      03-07-2009, 08:46 AM   #7
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I avoid any gasoline but Shell V-Power in Ontario. It made a HUGE difference in my Z4M Coupe. Shell V-Power has no alcohol in it here in Ontario.

Alcohol is for drinking
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      03-07-2009, 10:47 AM   #8
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By law, the Peoples Republic of Oregon requires 10% ethonol in all gasoline sold in the state. I know they wouldn't force it on us if if wasn't good for us.
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      03-07-2009, 11:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BMW View Post
being a BMW service advisor, ethanol is my enemy!

BMW says that you should not use any fuel that contains more than 10% ethanol in it.

I see lots of cars coming in for rough running and "service engine soon" lights because of a high percentage of ethanol.

BMW warranty will not pay for repairs if you use bad gas which really makes people mad. I agree with BMW but people do not when they are in need of a new fuel filter, pump or whatever else might fail by using 'bad gas'

Use top tier fuel. BMW recommends Quik Trip, Cheveron, Shell as their top gas stations-

BP fuel is NOT recommended by BMW!

I have seen as high at 25% ethanol in some cars that come into service.

People can afford or justify the expensive car but cannot pay the extra .30 cents a gallon for the proper gas for some reason.
I did notice that I needed to replace the fuel filter at shorter intervals in my last car when the state switched to all E10 fuel.
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      03-07-2009, 01:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BMW View Post
People can afford or justify the expensive car but cannot pay the extra .30 cents a gallon for the proper gas for some reason.
Seriously, never got people with 50k+ cars complaining about not being able to put the right fuel in her. If you can't afford to run a 50K car, don't buy one. Its like people who buy a house on an acre or more of land and don't maintain it because "they can't afford to". They buy a townhouse that has a 1/5 the land.

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e46e92
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      03-07-2009, 02:19 PM   #11
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I ONLY put 94 octane here in montreal from Petro Canada. The only supplier of 94 octane in Quebec ,Canada.

http://www.petro-canada.ca/en/produc...vices/314.aspx
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      03-07-2009, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BMW View Post
being a BMW service advisor, ethanol is my enemy!

BMW says that you should not use any fuel that contains more than 10% ethanol in it.

I see lots of cars coming in for rough running and "service engine soon" lights because of a high percentage of ethanol.

BMW warranty will not pay for repairs if you use bad gas which really makes people mad. I agree with BMW but people do not when they are in need of a new fuel filter, pump or whatever else might fail by using 'bad gas'

Use top tier fuel. BMW recommends Quik Trip, Cheveron, Shell as their top gas stations-

BP fuel is NOT recommended by BMW!

I have seen as high at 25% ethanol in some cars that come into service.

People can afford or justify the expensive car but cannot pay the extra .30 cents a gallon for the proper gas for some reason.

ok, first off I'm NOT complaining about not affording an extra $.30 more a gallon, if you do the math that's only about $5 more a tank, I'm fine with that, I looked into that before I even got the car.

If fact I'm not complaining at all I just want to put the best stuff in my baby that I can get where I live. And I'm really asking about 93 vs 93 w/ 10% ethonal. Which is better, or does it not make a difference?

The 2nd part to this is I live in Des Moines, Iowa. We don't have Shell it doesn't exist here, or Cheveron, and the few Quik Trips don't have 93 Octane of any sort. It's almost all BP, and so far I haven't found 93 Octane at them either but their probably the best chance I'll have to find it, which I figured if they did have it, it'll probably be the 10% ethonal kind of 93 octane.

So basically it sounds like 93 octane with up to 10% ethonal is ok and covered under the warranty, just don't use anything higher than 10% ethonal
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      03-08-2009, 01:54 AM   #13
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My question is which fuel gives the best performance - straight 93 Octane fuel, or 93 Octane fuel that has 10% Ethanol.

Over in Australia I've seen articles where tuners have found 98RON with 10% Ethanol can make more power than pure 98RON as you can advance ignition timing more.

Thoughts?
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      03-08-2009, 02:29 PM   #14
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Also being from Des Moines I don't think there are ANY stations around here with anything better than 92, and that's at BP. Most other premiums, if they sell it all, is 91, some with, some without ethanol. I won't make the farmers happy, but I avoid ethanol at all costs and never use it in any of my cars. I remember trying it when it first came out a LONG time ago on my dad's car, which was a couple years old, and it totally plugged up the fuel filter. It's all a political game to buy votes from the farmers...
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      03-08-2009, 08:00 PM   #15
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I think we will see more and more gas stations moving to 10% ethanol, some because of state law, others because it can reduce costs/boost profit for the retailers. If you look hard enough, you can usually find Top Tier retailers that also offer 100% gasoline (there is a Conoco I drive about 5 miles to since they advertise 100% gas and Conoco is a Top Tier retailer) but you really have to look..
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      03-08-2009, 09:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizman7 View Post
ok, first off I'm NOT complaining about not affording an extra $.30 more a gallon, if you do the math that's only about $5 more a tank, I'm fine with that, I looked into that before I even got the car.

If fact I'm not complaining at all I just want to put the best stuff in my baby that I can get where I live. And I'm really asking about 93 vs 93 w/ 10% ethonal. Which is better, or does it not make a difference?

The 2nd part to this is I live in Des Moines, Iowa. We don't have Shell it doesn't exist here, or Cheveron, and the few Quik Trips don't have 93 Octane of any sort. It's almost all BP, and so far I haven't found 93 Octane at them either but their probably the best chance I'll have to find it, which I figured if they did have it, it'll probably be the 10% ethonal kind of 93 octane.

So basically it sounds like 93 octane with up to 10% ethonal is ok and covered under the warranty, just don't use anything higher than 10% ethonal
You are in the middle of corn country, of course you will see corn alcohol being used as fuel additives. Don't give it another thought, 10% a-hol is fine, especially when worrying about it is'nt going to change your circumstances.

Last edited by matt beard; 03-09-2009 at 04:13 PM..
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      03-08-2009, 10:21 PM   #17
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There is a Shell and a Mobil right by my house and they r both accross the street from each other. Prices r exactly the same. I was told mobil is the best gas therefore decided to go with mobil altho b4 I would always put shell. A few miles away there is another mobil in which the gas was around .30c cheaper, but its still a MOBIL. So I was almost on empty and decided to fill up there. A few days later my car had this ticking sound. Right away I thought about the gas, but didnt really think it was that since altho cheaper its still a mobil. Anyway, let the gas tank go don and filled it up again with Shell. Guess what? Ticking sound was completely gone. About 3 weeks ago I decided to go with mobil again, but not the one that was cheaper, the one thats right accross from the shell and is the same price (BTW THESE R ALL 93) and after a few fillups I started getting a ticking sound again but not as loud. Waited for it to go low and filled up with shell again and guess what, ITS COMPLETELY GONE....... AGAIN!!!

Came to a conclusion that shell is the best gas for our cars, at least here in NYC. Our engines seem to be very sensitive to this matter. From now I am only filling up with shell. I will do watever it takes if Im not near one to get to one lol.
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      03-09-2009, 07:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John@BMW View Post

Use top tier fuel. BMW recommends Quik Trip, Cheveron, Shell as their top gas stations-
John, any thoughts on the effect of the new "nitrogen enriched" fuel from Shell?
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      03-09-2009, 08:07 AM   #19
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Time to move out of the sticks boys! Just kidding
Quote:
Originally Posted by SKL View Post
Also being from Des Moines I don't think there are ANY stations around here with anything better than 92, and that's at BP. Most other premiums, if they sell it all, is 91, some with, some without ethanol. I won't make the farmers happy, but I avoid ethanol at all costs and never use it in any of my cars. I remember trying it when it first came out a LONG time ago on my dad's car, which was a couple years old, and it totally plugged up the fuel filter. It's all a political game to buy votes from the farmers...
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      03-09-2009, 09:24 AM   #20
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I don't know if it is a state or federal regulation but here in OH, gas stations must post the % of ethanol blend. BP is one of them with 10% ethanol while Exxon and Shell are w/o ethanol. I always use Shell or Exxon because of that.
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      03-09-2009, 10:04 PM   #21
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Iowa is required to post whether the gas contains ethanol as well. They've talked about making it mandatory but haven't pushed that through- if they do, I don't know what I'd put in my 1971 Porsche because I sure as hell don't want alcohol going through that system!! Technically I could still put leaded gas in that car as the fuel filler would allow it!!
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      03-10-2009, 01:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizman7 View Post
ok, first off I'm NOT complaining about not affording an extra $.30 more a gallon, if you do the math that's only about $5 more a tank, I'm fine with that, I looked into that before I even got the car.

If fact I'm not complaining at all I just want to put the best stuff in my baby that I can get where I live. And I'm really asking about 93 vs 93 w/ 10% ethonal. Which is better, or does it not make a difference?

The 2nd part to this is I live in Des Moines, Iowa. We don't have Shell it doesn't exist here, or Cheveron, and the few Quik Trips don't have 93 Octane of any sort. It's almost all BP, and so far I haven't found 93 Octane at them either but their probably the best chance I'll have to find it, which I figured if they did have it, it'll probably be the 10% ethonal kind of 93 octane.

So basically it sounds like 93 octane with up to 10% ethonal is ok and covered under the warranty, just don't use anything higher than 10% ethonal
I know you are not complaining! Im not pointing fingers at anyone....Im just stating facts and speaking in generalities.

It is best to use fuel with ZERO ethanol! Ethanol is added to gasoline to reduce emissions and because it is cheaper. It burns cleaner but the engine will not make as much power and fuel economy suffers a little bit as well.

BMWs run a high risk of not running properly when there is too much ethanol in the fuel. BMW says use anything less than 10%. Anything more and you run the risk of rough running and or a check engine light.

your last sentence sums it up 100%
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