BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-28-2012, 05:58 AM   #23
Buschy
Colonel
Buschy's Avatar
288
Rep
2,496
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSanto
Why is it dumb? Drive a car with torque, it feels different. This is all subjective, and some people may prefer that feel. It's all opinion. Nobody is wrong.

My trucks tq is 800 I've had two 335 one modded. I know what the difference is. I still think its dumb. M3 has plenty tq for daily and in town use.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2012, 05:59 AM   #24
Buschy
Colonel
Buschy's Avatar
288
Rep
2,496
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311
Its not really "dumb" if you consider some want to just step on the gas and have the car move..regardless of what gear they are in..

In this regard the M3 falls flat..I dont see that as being a great daily driver..a great car..yes...but requires constant driver input

Get a dct and drive in auto mode then. Lol
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2012, 07:04 AM   #25
phrozen06
Lieutenant Colonel
phrozen06's Avatar
229
Rep
1,773
Posts

Drives: 328it, RIP M3, E46 Sold
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 39°27'33"N 77°58'04"W W. Virgina, Kansas

iTrader: (2)

torque is over rated. if you want power just rev your ///M like a vtec civic.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2012, 09:58 AM   #26
Thebigbus
Private
Thebigbus's Avatar
6
Rep
87
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central Texas

iTrader: (0)

As for the torque thing....I currently drive an '06 GTO Modded with gobs of torque. Just drove an m3 for the first time on Wednesday, and I was smitten. I actually get bored with the lazy, slow revving torque monster Goat, so personally can't wait to change over.

To each their own on torque . Fwiw, I thought the m3 had plenty of torque, and it revved so quickly and smoothly that it really didn't matter.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 08:47 AM   #27
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optherion View Post
I missed having low end torque. Much more usable around town at low speeds. Rare in town I can even stretch the e92. Hoping the new M3 has a nice low end cause its a great DD.
totally agree. i felt like the engine / weight of the m3 was a mismatch for DD fun with the 6mt. id guess the DCT with the gearing would be a much better match, but i like rowing my own gears.

i sold my m3 and was on the hunt for a 1M which i finally found and purchased. it fixes a lot of the issues i personally found with the m3 for my purposes. in the future i definitely plan to consider the new turbo m3, but the 1M is pretty damn fun
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 08:52 AM   #28
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
this statement is so silly to me

just because YOU dont find the car down on torque doesnt mean that others may feel that it is low on torque.

drive a car like a 1M and tell me that the torque between the two cars is similar. clearly you have the benefit of the ripping redline on the m3 vs the 1M or say a 997TT, it just depends on what type of power delivery you prefer.

to each their own. but to act like the m3 isnt down on torque relative to other cars in its class is silly.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 08:58 AM   #29
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
26
Rep
504
Posts

Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

I personally do not understand this whole m3 is "anemic" "gutless" argument, at least when equipped with dct. With 7 tightly spaced gears, you spend little to no time below 2500 rpm. Ever looked at how quickly your speedo moves when u hit the gas? At any speed in any gear? Give it a try. The car moves better than my old 997 c2s pdk that had more torque and lighter weight.

I understand the argument with a manual equipped m3 but even then it's still not that much of an issue. I'd rather have a formula one derived high revving v8 with machine gun like throttle response, than a boring 335 powered 1m with low end tq which falls flat on its ass after 5k rpm. Those turbo engines just don't feel special.

Last edited by KKM3; 12-29-2012 at 09:05 AM..
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 09:11 AM   #30
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I personally do not understand this whole m3 is "anemic" "gutless" argument, at least when equipped with dct. With 7 tightly spaced gears, you spend little to no time below 2500 rpm. Ever looked at how quickly your speedo moves when u hit the gas? At any speed in any gear? Give it a try. The car moves better than my old 997 c2s pdk that had more torque and lighter weight.

I understand the argument with a manual equipped m3 but even then it's still not that much of an issue. I'd rather have a formula one derived high revving v8 with machine gun like throttle response, than a boring 335 powered 1m with low end tq which falls flat on its ass after 5k rpm. Those turbo engines just don't feel special.
you driven one?

its also 400 lbs lighter than an m3 with the exact same suspension.

i do agree that the DCT is a much better match for the m3.

it just depends on what you like. and stock, even less so with an FMIC, the power does not completely die at 5000 RPM on the 1M at all. the car rips at all RPMs.

both great cars and similar in many ways, yet different in others. great to have choices
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #31
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
26
Rep
504
Posts

Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
you driven one?

its also 400 lbs lighter than an m3 with the exact same suspension.

i do agree that the DCT is a much better match for the m3.

it just depends on what you like. and stock, even less so with an FMIC, the power does not completely die at 5000 RPM on the 1M at all. the car rips at all RPMs.

both great cars and similar in many ways, yet different in others. great to have choices
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 09:32 AM   #32
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
it is completely different, thats the best way i can describe it.

the new engine calibrations, intake manifold, LSD/suspension, and signficantly lighter weight makes a huge difference.

it is much more responsive

anyway, sorry to go OT

the m3 is a fantastic car though
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 09:54 AM   #33
larryn
Lieutenant General
United_States
2146
Rep
10,176
Posts

Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (2)

Having owned a pretty modified 135i, I know what torque is. The N54 certainly snaps your neck on acceleration, but you never knew when it was going to happen. Plant foot... wait... Boom! The 1M has a lot of this same latency problem from the few times I've driven those at driving events.

So, there's torgue there, but it's fairly uncivilized. The S65 feels much more precise and direct in comparison. When I first got this car, the comparable lack of torque was noticeable, but the throttle response and precision feel won my heart. I just have to shift more, which I am very okay with.

My next car will likely not be a BMW, if the M4 suffers any lag at all. I'm not sold on FI on smaller displacement engines.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 10:07 AM   #34
Thebigbus
Private
Thebigbus's Avatar
6
Rep
87
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
That is pretty much how I feel about my LS2..."bored". It's just not that exciting. Can't wait to trade for the M3. Felt quite special.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 10:28 AM   #35
krnnerdboy
Colonel
krnnerdboy's Avatar
United_States
190
Rep
2,431
Posts

Drives: v10 m6
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: so cal

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebigbus
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I've never driven a 1m but I a 335 with the same engine and became bored with it (the engine not the car) after the first few months. And even after all the modding, all the power gains, the engine simply bored me to death.

The engine in the m3 is truly a gem. Honestly one of a kind. I have an r8 v10 and I still marvel over the v8 in my m3.
That is pretty much how I feel about my LS2..."bored". It's just not that exciting. Can't wait to trade for the M3. Felt quite special.
If you had an ls3 it would be a different story. Torque down low and a great high end pull. Honestly, even my m6 is quite tiresome to drive from the lack of torque. But when I do get to open it up, its nothing short of sensational.

My favorite motor has to be the one in my boss 302. It has a flat torque curve that makes its peak power at 7500 rpm redline. This truly feels like it can rev all day long and isn't simply derived from racing but actually used in racing....
__________________

F80 m3, 997 gt3, 14 ram ctd, f15 x5, drz400sm

Gone:z4m, boss 302, c6 z06, m6,z3m
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 11:17 AM   #36
jeff2015
Private First Class
United_States
6
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2015 GTR Gun Metal Gray Pr Edi
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Loudoun County

iTrader: (0)

I sold my 2011 E92 M3 Z package because I wanted something less common. In the DC area, an M3 is like a Camry, and at the end of the day, it's a 3 series coupe. Also, I really enjoyed the torque after I test drove a 510hp car w/ 470 lbs ft of torque. Got a supercharged Jag XKR. I have only come to realize all that torque only translates to wheel spin which I didn't get a lot of with my ex-M. And of course the handling of the M is undeniable.
__________________
Jeff
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 11:21 AM   #37
jeff2015
Private First Class
United_States
6
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: 2015 GTR Gun Metal Gray Pr Edi
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Loudoun County

iTrader: (0)

BTW, if I could have been able to keep the E92 n my new 2013 XKR I would as they totally different cars.
__________________
Jeff
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 12:18 PM   #38
hellrotm
Banned
4143
Rep
6,926
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Just wanted something different. I don't hold onto cars that long. Probably my last bimmer for a while. Not 100% sold on their direction right now. Drove the M5 recently, dare I say it is overrated. (although I could see myself picking up a beater E92 M3 in a year or two as a track car, they are getting cheap quick.)
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #39
Optherion
Lieutenant
Optherion's Avatar
United_States
46
Rep
516
Posts

Drives: Prancing Horse
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SoCal & Vegas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
uh with that stable why would you even sell the M3. obviously you can afford to keep it around and drive one of the others if you wanted more torque

fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
1. No more garage space for 2 e92's and gas mileage. M3 was my DD and it wasnt making a whole lot of sense having a 2 door v8 for DD.

2. Power in any gear any time around town.

3. Yes the M3 has little to no torque. Easy measurement. How much gas pedal is required to push you back in the seat? M3 requires a lot of wringing out the engine and pedal to the floor high RPM. I loved that, and loved it in my GT3, however around town and 20-60mph blast with a ton of grunt is what I love. Like I said, I am used to the ZR1 Viper and GT-R. Which will let you experience a TON of low end torque (500ft lbs + at 2,500 RPM) M3 doesnt even have HALF that at 2500 RPM. It was a good daily driver through. This would be a different story if it was like the LS3 as stated. Torque down low and tons of HP up top. All around, M3 is a great car, but I think many of you haven't driven cars with 600ft lbs of torque to say "yes in my garage the m3 had the least amount of torque." For 99% of the demographics the M3 will be just fine.
__________________
Current Stable: 6 Drivers + 5 Projects

Last edited by Optherion; 12-29-2012 at 01:24 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 01:54 PM   #40
KKM3
Lieutenant
United_States
26
Rep
504
Posts

Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

You can have a car with a ton of torque and become bored with it in little time. I, like optherion have been fortunate enough to own and experience cars with high torque and high price tags but that doesn't mean I'm spoiled enough to not appreciate my m3 anymore. I've been in cars well over 100k and prefer the m3 to quite a few of them. Why? Mainly because of the engine and transmission. Everytime I sit in the m3, everytime I fire it up, it makes me smile. I never think about the lack of torque because the transmission is so effective at what it does that the car always feels fast to me. Obviously not as fast as my r8 but it never feels underpowered. Dct in the m3 is better than any double clutch I've experienced (manual operation). Better than any Porsche or gtr I've owned or driven and in a different league than the single clutch r-tronic in my r8.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 03:34 PM   #41
soberin
Second Lieutenant
30
Rep
242
Posts

Drives: M3 E90
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
fyi the torque thing about town and daily driving is the dumbest thing I ever heard. or keep hearing. the M3 works fine in town and daily driven.
This is a moronic statement by an obviously novice driver of performance cars. The lack of low-end torque is a major flaw of the the M3. It is designed, in case you are unaware, for high speed cruising, and tracking. It sucks as a daily driver around town.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 03:35 PM   #42
soberin
Second Lieutenant
30
Rep
242
Posts

Drives: M3 E90
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
Its not really "dumb" if you consider some want to just step on the gas and have the car move..regardless of what gear they are in..

In this regard the M3 falls flat..I dont see that as being a great daily driver..a great car..yes...but requires constant driver input
Totally correct.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 04:07 PM   #43
Mookster
Captain
Mookster's Avatar
184
Rep
692
Posts

Drives: 2019 ZR1 & 2020 Supra GR LE
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
You can have a car with a ton of torque and become bored with it in little time.
I once felt like this too, my last 8 performance cars were all high revving with low torque. None of these cars lasted very along(aside from my two M3s) and even M3s i got bored of and now that i think about it might have been due to torque. I will be honest and say i did enjoy revving these cars high but its not convenient at all if you live in any of the metropolitan areas.

I would say one would have to try out both and decide for yourself.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2012, 05:08 PM   #44
Cboy1
Murdered out M3
10
Rep
151
Posts

Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmmdreamer View Post
I love the high revving engine =) Euro-vtech!
VTEC*
__________________
Charlie Kim
McKenna BMW
Service Consultant
Email: charlie.kim@mckennacars.com
Contact: 562-345-7030
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST