e39 M5 to e90 M3, I made the leap

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by Montaver

If your driving it daily, sounds like the M3 will eventually suffer the same fate (dings, scratches etc).

Did you consider getting a nice DD (Gti, older 330ci, old S4) and a weekend car? Daily beater with a nice 997.1 911 or Cayman 987.2 for the weekends sounds like a better option to me.

Congrats though, great car you will love it. Drop in filter adds a bit of induction noise. There are loads of exhaust options, I'm currently deciding on one myself.

exhaust-wise the PE mod plus secondary delete (test-pipes) can't be beat especially for the money.

[simple2010]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

exhaust-wise the PE mod plus secondary delete (test-pipes) can't be beat especially for the money.

Deleting cats isn't really an option in California, unfortunately. So far I've talked to three shops, none want the job. One had done a few and considered it a "pain in the ass" to do. They would happily sell me a catback "performance muffler" of course...

I told all of them, just throw out your "I don't want to do it" price and they still wouldn't. Frustrating. Take my money! Maybe I'll just get a Borla ATAK or something.

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by simple2010

Deleting cats isn't really an option in California, unfortunately. So far I've talked to three shops, none want the job. One had done a few and considered it a "pain in the ass" to do. They would happily sell me a catback "performance muffler" of course...

I told all of them, just throw out your "I don't want to do it" price and they still wouldn't. Frustrating. Take my money! Maybe I'll just get a Borla ATAK or something.

a pain in the ass? I guess he just doesn't want to take your money, shit... I watched the shop delete my cats. the only complicated part is using this machine to bend the pipes so they fit in place your secondaries.

that's a damn shame, perhaps you will be happy enough with just the PE mod? who know's eventually maybe you'll find someone.

as far as I know, Cali's emission testing looks underneath the car? maybe you can gut your secondary cats and weld them back in place, that's an option. I wouldnt bother spending money on a new exhaust system because you're not opening up any gains unless you are deleting cats.

I appreciate living in Toronto just a little more now. here, the emissions shop hooks your car up, smells the exhaust while you're idling and sends you on your way

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by simple2010

Deleting cats isn't really an option in California, unfortunately. So far I've talked to three shops, none want the job. One had done a few and considered it a "pain in the ass" to do. They would happily sell me a catback "performance muffler" of course...

I told all of them, just throw out your "I don't want to do it" price and they still wouldn't. Frustrating. Take my money! Maybe I'll just get a Borla ATAK or something.

I did my mod myself for $45 a while ago lol

Have a different system now though.

Beware oem mod plus test pipes with sound very hollow and ratchety.

[simple2010]

Perhaps I should just ask some local machine shops that do welding to do it. I suppose an exhaust shop doesn't really matter other than they'll have a lift.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

I did my mod myself for $45 a while ago lol

Have a different system now though.

Beware oem mod plus test pipes with sound very hollow and ratchety.

Yes it is very loud. I love it I hate it I love it I hate it.

I love it.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Yes it is very loud. I live it I hate it I love it I hate it.

I love it.

It's very bubbly!

[imserious]

Mmmm, at first I was going to say, I dunno man! Lemans Blue over Caramel!?

But after reading your post, your reasoning is sound. If you have room to collect, collect. But if you have to daily drive the thing - E90M3 is about as good as it gets for an all around car.

Be warned - an E90M3 with DCT in traffic is - rather forgettable, but comfortable. To enjoy it properly, you absolutely must abuse it. It's wonderful at full tilt. Very different I imagine to the E39M5 daily experience.

And hey - nice Z.

[dagolfpro]

Originally Posted by simple2010

Perhaps I should just ask some local machine shops that do welding to do it. I suppose an exhaust shop doesn't really matter other than they'll have a lift.

Depends on where you're located in Bay Area, some shops are open on weekends. Also, you can typically find a used E90 muffler and if you want to do the OEM Exhaust mod, I would highly recommend it.

btw, welcome to the E90 Club.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by simple2010

Perhaps I should just ask some local machine shops that do welding to do it. I suppose an exhaust shop doesn't really matter other than they'll have a lift.

There is welding involved? I thought all the cat deletes were clamp on kits?

Anyway, if you still need a shop PM me.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by tlow98

There is welding involved? I thought all the cat deletes were clamp on kits?

Anyway, if you still need a shop PM me.

You have to cut the muffler casement open. Regardless of what method you perform to the interior you still have to weld it back together. Many good videos on YouTube showing the mod from A to Z and there are many ways to search and come up with the same mod. I like the one below as an example. And of course German Straight-6 added a good one above.

Bmw E92 OEM muffler mod
Bmw E90 OEM exhaust mod
And so on...

[clubracer6]

Great thread.

Had a 03 Sterling Grey over Black M5 a few years back. Loved it and regretting selling it before it even went away but had to at the time. Later had a E60 535i/6 M-sport. Have also had an E28 535is / e34 dinan 540/6 and 2 e39 540/6’s. The E28 was certainly the most playful of the bunch, the e34 the most solid and well built. But really loved the E39’s the most. The E60 was great, but too big and the f10 is just massive.

Had my share of 3’s too, E20, E36, E46 (ZHP awesome car), E90 , but no M cars. I feel like the e90 M3 is the best blend of tech and old school and for me almost the perfect size. Do you guys feel like the E90 is that much smaller than the e39. It’s been a while since I have had both.

My E39 M5 though will never be forgotten – such an icon and benchmark. I always felt like I was driving an Australian Super V8 car! Speaking of which anyone drive a Chevy SS. A little tempted by that one I must say.

[BGBF18]

Thanks for not starting another rod bearing thread!

I would recommend two things.

1) A new intake to bring out the delicious induction noise.

2) A stage 1 tune - BPM's tune adds 7-8 lb.-ft. of torque between 2000-2800 RPM, which is right where you need it for traffic to minimize downshifting.

Anecdotally, I drove my E90 6MT back to back with my friend's pristine, but high-mileage (~100K mile) E39 M5 6MT and there was no comparison. I was left waiting for the much heralded torque of the S62 that never materialized. Could have been the age of the motor, my mods and the extra 300 lbs. of curb weight. Don't know. Either way, I was happy to get back in the E90 and as for my friend, well, he sold the E39 about three months later.

Lastly, you sound like you're mourning the loss of the manual. Which is understandable, because unless you're tracking your car, the DCT is less than satisfying to drive (for me at least).

[HellaHashTags]

great post! I'm currently debating picking up an E39 M5 or E90 M3 and am having a bit of a hard time choosing. It seems to me that the E90 M3 is almost the spiritual successor to the E39 M5, so I'm leaning in that direction (also considering that good condition E39 M5's are incredibly hard to find now.)

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by BGBF18

Anecdotally, I drove my E90 6MT back to back with my friend's pristine, but high-mileage (~100K mile) E39 M5 6MT and there was no comparison. I was left waiting for the much heralded torque of the S62 that never materialized. Could have been the age of the motor, my mods and the extra 300 lbs. of curb weight.

Your friend's engine probably was not running at 100%. There is a major, immediately noticeable difference - a different character altogether. When I got my E39 M5 it was in pretty good shape but it was obvious to me it was down on power. Replacing the MAF sensors and fuel filter(!) probably netted me a solid 60hp, huge difference. The S62 has a ton of sensors and will not deliver the full goods if everything isn't tip-top.

[-BEASTMW-]

Originally Posted by HellaHashTags

great post! I'm currently debating picking up an E39 M5 or E90 M3 and am having a bit of a hard time choosing. It seems to me that the E90 M3 is almost the spiritual successor to the E39 M5, so I'm leaning in that direction (also considering that good condition E39 M5's are incredibly hard to find now.)

They have a lot of similarities but really have a different character. The M5 is more of a luxury muscle car that can also handle, while the M3 is more aggressive, sharp, compact and firm, like a luxurious sports car. Drive them both.

I have a friend who had an E92 M3 and ended up buying my E39 M5, and now I have an E90 M3. We each love both of them, but he prefers the E39 (looks, torque, and muscular character) while I'll give the overall edge to E90 (more aggressive and direct in handling, steering, and braking).

[jeffkukuruda]

Congratulations on the e90. I will echo BEASTMW, I am fortunate enough to currently own both an e39 M5 (59k miles) and an e90 M3 (75k miles). I love them both, but they are much different to drive than the numbers on paper make them look. When i get out of the e90 (DCT) into the M5, its like a time warp... in a good way. The torque is so readily available and the car has a lot less tech. The e90 is faster on a track surely, but the e39 is so special in it's own way. It is simpler and a true bahn stormer/ highway eater. I thought I might end up selling the M5 after getting the M3, but they are both very special, and have no plans of getting rid of either for a long time! The torque and flexibility of the s62 make it a true marvel for a 20+ year old design, and the intoxicating top end and near exotic sound of an s65 with MPE make this a well rounded 4 door pairing for me. One thing is for sure, I have no desire for a new turbo version of either.

Cheers,
Jeff

[BGBF18]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

Your friend's engine probably was not running at 100%. There is a major, immediately noticeable difference - a different character altogether. When I got my E39 M5 it was in pretty good shape but it was obvious to me it was down on power. Replacing the MAF sensors and fuel filter(!) probably netted me a solid 60hp, huge difference. The S62 has a ton of sensors and will not deliver the full goods if everything isn't tip-top.

Good to know. His M5 certainly fell short of my expectations and sadly I'll probably never experience a properly functioning S62

[1MOREMOD]

I covet one also

[CSBM5]

No question the driving experience between the S65 and S62 is dramatically different. The S62 in the E39 M5 (I've had mine for 14 years now, 66k miles; have had the E90 M3 for almost 5 years and it has 36k miles on it now) is a muscle-car beast from ~2000rpms into the midrange with a decent higher end pull to 7k; meanwhile, the S65 is just begging you to get into its sweet spot between 6000-8400 and wail on it, again and again.

The flat torque curve of the S65 in the M3 is phenomenal on an autocross course where you can seriously put down the power through some elements like you would never believe (compared to the M5) as it's progressive build in power with rpms just works magic. The S62 on the other hand is waiting, wanting, always ready to just spin the rear tires any chance it can; coming off an element in 2nd gear at 2500rpms -- the M5's S62 says "spin baby, spin these 275s, come on manage that throttle better, smoother or I'm just going to spin these puppies into smoke until you get your **** together". The M3 coming off that element is hooking up earlier and stronger and then booking away like a scalded cat leaving the M5 for dead.

When I drive the M5 I often find I hit the limiter at 7k so quickly as part of me is expecting that wicked high end wail of the M3 to arrive. When I drive the M3, I do miss that low end muscle car torque output at times in "normal" driving. What many miss in the comparison is the gearing for each car is matched to the torque output of their engines; hence, hitting the throttle at 2500rpms in 2nd gear in the M5 and then comparing the same action in the M3 isn't a valid comparison since instead road speed should be matched in a given gear (note the M3 revs about 1400rpms higher for the same road speed in this case, so 2500 in 2nd in the M5 should be compared to 3900 in 2nd in the M3).

The E90 M3 is in no way a spiritual successor to the E39 M5 -- two completely different animals with two different set of objectives for their design and two significantly different driving experiences. Here's a link to one of numerous posts I did on the M5board about the two cars. Note that I've had numerous suspension mods on the M5 for the past 12 years, so I'm not even comparing to a stock one in comments about handling, etc.

In any event, imo the S62 and S65 are two BMW engines to own and enjoy given their differences and the pinnacle they set for normally aspirated BMW V8s for all time.

Regards,
Chuck

[simple2010]

Bah, ordered a Borla ATAK setup. Meanwhile, the relationship with the M3 continues to improve. I am not thinking of the M5 on a daily basis anymore. Got GTS DCT flash today, curious to see how it performs in traffic on Monday.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by simple2010

Bah, ordered a Borla ATAK setup. Meanwhile, the relationship with the M3 continues to improve. I am not thinking of the M5 on a daily basis anymore. Got GTS DCT flash today, curious to see how it performs in traffic on Monday.

You will barely notice a difference with the DCT tune. Don't get me wrong, it will be less sluggish at times but it's not a big jump as BMW already has it set up pretty well. Curious what the Borla cost you in parts and shipping.